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      04-26-2014, 02:31 PM   #1
jbomb
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VR Tuned Tuning Box

Has anyone used this, any feedback?

http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/2...150784944.html
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      04-26-2014, 03:06 PM   #2
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Looks to utilize virtually the same type of technology as BMS, but triple the price and not tested as much?
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      04-26-2014, 06:29 PM   #3
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I would contact them and follow up. I've been hearing some good things about their new VR Tuned boxes on other platforms. If it is really 100hp thats some good gains.
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      04-27-2014, 01:58 AM   #4
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Seems to be a more developed product than the BMS that only increases boost and is still set up for the N63 engine and MAP sensors (you have to use the "wrong" settings to achieve the boost gain you want).

Here the piggyback controls fuel, ignition and boost.

This one comes with factory connectors as well. No need to splice the wiring.

This is basically the same as what Hatge, AC Schnitzer etc does as well. They have a track record if you are worried about it, but that comes at a price...
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      04-27-2014, 05:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Seems to be a more developed product than the BMS that only increases boost and is still set up for the N63 engine and MAP sensors (you have to use the "wrong" settings to achieve the boost gain you want).

Here the piggyback controls fuel, ignition and boost.

This one comes with factory connectors as well. No need to splice the wiring.

This is basically the same as what Hatge, AC Schnitzer etc does as well. They have a track record if you are worried about it, but that comes at a price...
All of the s63tu tuners you mentioned above connect to the MAP sensors only for tuning and in a few cases an engine speed reference. None can directly change air/fuel ratios or timing advance targets. This post above is full of generic copy and without a dynojet before and after. Their install guide shows it connecting to the MAP sensors as all the other tuners do along with the RPM reference. Buyer beware in my opinion.

Mike
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      04-28-2014, 04:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
All of the s63tu tuners you mentioned above connect to the MAP sensors only for tuning and in a few cases an engine speed reference. None can directly change air/fuel ratios or timing advance targets. This post above is full of generic copy and without a dynojet before and after. Their install guide shows it connecting to the MAP sensors as all the other tuners do along with the RPM reference. Buyer beware in my opinion.

Mike
The AC Schnitzer doesn't connect only to the MAP sensor as far as I know. It connects to the main wiring harness/plug to the ECU's and intercepts at least MAP and fuelling.

See page 5 (scroll down to the English text) in their installation manual:

http://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/ac.../121410710.pdf

Here it says that they mainly alter the fuelling and adds a little boost in addition...

Dyno results:

[IMG]http://<a href="http://<a href="http...48.jpg</a></a>[/IMG]

http://<a href="http://<a href="http...48</a></a></a>




After reading the Vividracing install manual, I agree that the VR Box is nothing more than a boost piggyback that adjusts for rpm (and possibly load as a function of rpm and boost).

And as proven by the 11,07s time set at the 1/4 mile by a BMS equipped M5, that product also have a proven record as regards performance (not sure how much of that time was down to slicks or the tune - Trap speed (a good indicator of engine power) at 128MPH isn't that much higher than a stock M5 though?).

BTW. Most of the other ACS tunes are now CANbus and alter fuelling, ignition and boost. Their diesel piggybacks have wiring connectors to each injector, directly controlling injector opening times.

Last edited by Boss330; 04-28-2014 at 04:48 AM.
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      04-28-2014, 09:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
The AC Schnitzer doesn't connect only to the MAP sensor as far as I know. It connects to the main wiring harness/plug to the ECU's and intercepts at least MAP and fuelling.

See page 5 (scroll down to the English text) in their installation manual:

http://<a href="http://preisliste.ac...410710.pdf</a>

Here it says that they mainly alter the fuelling and adds a little boost in addition...

Dyno results:

[IMG]http://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/ac...stung11548.jpg[/IMG]

http://<a href="http://preisliste.ac...D_NR=11548</a>




After reading the Vividracing install manual, I agree that the VR Box is nothing more than a boost piggyback that adjusts for rpm (and possibly load as a function of rpm and boost).

And as proven by the 11,07s time set at the 1/4 mile by a BMS equipped M5, that product also have a proven record as regards performance (not sure how much of that time was down to slicks or the tune - Trap speed (a good indicator of engine power) at 128MPH isn't that much higher than a stock M5 though?).

BTW. Most of the other ACS tunes are now CANbus and alter fuelling, ignition and boost. Their diesel piggybacks have wiring connectors to each injector, directly controlling injector opening times.
You have to realize that the trap speed at the track is going to be LOWER than a GPS based trap speed that a magazine uses. The 128.68mph trap speed at the track is probably a 130+mph GPS trap speed given that the 128.68mph trap is derrived by averaging the last 66' of the 1/4 mile run using timing lights. So comparing apples to apples, the best stock F10 M5 trap speed at the track was the 124.05mph trap by Patb23 with his '14 CP. Out on the track, 4.6mph is a pretty big difference in power and the CP package seems to be making a good deal more power than advertised 15hp. I am sure a modified CP would be faster than a non-CP with the same exhaust mods and piggyback system.
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      04-28-2014, 09:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
The AC Schnitzer doesn't connect only to the MAP sensor as far as I know. It connects to the main wiring harness/plug to the ECU's and intercepts at least MAP and fuelling.

See page 5 (scroll down to the English text) in their installation manual:

http://<a href="http://preisliste.ac...410710.pdf</a>

Here it says that they mainly alter the fuelling and adds a little boost in addition...

Dyno results:

[IMG]http://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/ac...stung11548.jpg[/IMG]

http://<a href="http://preisliste.ac...D_NR=11548</a>




After reading the Vividracing install manual, I agree that the VR Box is nothing more than a boost piggyback that adjusts for rpm (and possibly load as a function of rpm and boost).

And as proven by the 11,07s time set at the 1/4 mile by a BMS equipped M5, that product also have a proven record as regards performance (not sure how much of that time was down to slicks or the tune - Trap speed (a good indicator of engine power) at 128MPH isn't that much higher than a stock M5 though?).

BTW. Most of the other ACS tunes are now CANbus and alter fuelling, ignition and boost. Their diesel piggybacks have wiring connectors to each injector, directly controlling injector opening times.
I wasn't able to get your links working, but as far as track times go, BMS's M5 ran 121mph 100% stock at the same track. And also 128mph with race gas added and the tuning installed. Going from 121mph -> 128mph is a pretty significant gain. On the order of 100whp at M5 weight.

Since then BMS has added more parts and has run 133mph on a VBOX but this setup has not been to a real track with it yet...

Mike
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      04-28-2014, 04:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
The AC Schnitzer doesn't connect only to the MAP sensor as far as I know. It connects to the main wiring harness/plug to the ECU's and intercepts at least MAP and fuelling.

See page 5 (scroll down to the English text) in their installation manual:

http://<a href="http://preisliste.ac...410710.pdf</a>

Here it says that they mainly alter the fuelling and adds a little boost in addition...

Dyno results:

[IMG]http://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/ac...stung11548.jpg[/IMG]

http://<a href="http://preisliste.ac...D_NR=11548</a>




After reading the Vividracing install manual, I agree that the VR Box is nothing more than a boost piggyback that adjusts for rpm (and possibly load as a function of rpm and boost).

And as proven by the 11,07s time set at the 1/4 mile by a BMS equipped M5, that product also have a proven record as regards performance (not sure how much of that time was down to slicks or the tune - Trap speed (a good indicator of engine power) at 128MPH isn't that much higher than a stock M5 though?).

BTW. Most of the other ACS tunes are now CANbus and alter fuelling, ignition and boost. Their diesel piggybacks have wiring connectors to each injector, directly controlling injector opening times.
You have to realize that the trap speed at the track is going to be LOWER than a GPS based trap speed that a magazine uses. The 128.68mph trap speed at the track is probably a 130+mph GPS trap speed given that the 128.68mph trap is derrived by averaging the last 66' of the 1/4 mile run using timing lights. So comparing apples to apples, the best stock F10 M5 trap speed at the track was the 124.05mph trap by Patb23 with his '14 CP. Out on the track, 4.6mph is a pretty big difference in power and the CP package seems to be making a good deal more power than advertised 15hp. I am sure a modified CP would be faster than a non-CP with the same exhaust mods and piggyback system.
Thanks. I was obviously thinking about a real drag strip 1/4 mile trap speed.

Didn't recall what exact times the M5 had done, hence the ? in my post
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      04-28-2014, 04:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
The AC Schnitzer doesn't connect only to the MAP sensor as far as I know. It connects to the main wiring harness/plug to the ECU's and intercepts at least MAP and fuelling.

See page 5 (scroll down to the English text) in their installation manual:

http://<a href="http://preisliste.ac...410710.pdf</a>

Here it says that they mainly alter the fuelling and adds a little boost in addition...

Dyno results:

[IMG]http://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/ac...stung11548.jpg[/IMG]

http://<a href="http://preisliste.ac...D_NR=11548</a>




After reading the Vividracing install manual, I agree that the VR Box is nothing more than a boost piggyback that adjusts for rpm (and possibly load as a function of rpm and boost).

And as proven by the 11,07s time set at the 1/4 mile by a BMS equipped M5, that product also have a proven record as regards performance (not sure how much of that time was down to slicks or the tune - Trap speed (a good indicator of engine power) at 128MPH isn't that much higher than a stock M5 though?).

BTW. Most of the other ACS tunes are now CANbus and alter fuelling, ignition and boost. Their diesel piggybacks have wiring connectors to each injector, directly controlling injector opening times.
I wasn't able to get your links working, but as far as track times go, BMS's M5 ran 121mph 100% stock at the same track. And also 128mph with race gas added and the tuning installed. Going from 121mph -> 128mph is a pretty significant gain. On the order of 100whp at M5 weight.

Since then BMS has added more parts and has run 133mph on a VBOX but this setup has not been to a real track with it yet...

Mike
Fixed the link and here it is again

http://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/ac.../121410710.pdf

Also see my reply above on trap speed. Agree that a improvement of that amount is indicative of a substantial increase in power
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      04-28-2014, 06:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Fixed the link and here it is again

http://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/ac.../121410710.pdf

Also see my reply above on trap speed. Agree that a improvement of that amount is indicative of a substantial increase in power
Thanks for the guide. Unlike the other s63 tuners I've seen this one is connected at the DME connectors rather than the sensor connectors. Like a JB4 N54 tune. This obscures what sensors are actually being intercepted so I can't offer any technical analysis based on the guide alone. It would be interesting to see dynojet dyno runs in 4th and 5th gear to shed light on to whether its running more aggressively than other tuners out there. BMS seems to think there is another 3-4psi available beyond the 19-20psi most are running now with a more sophisticated tuning approach.

Mike
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      04-29-2014, 05:05 PM   #12
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How did I miss this thread?
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      05-07-2014, 01:29 PM   #13
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So the consensus is that the VR Box is generally well built?

Anyone out there running it? I just picked up cat-less down-pipes and want to install as soon as possible.
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      05-07-2014, 02:51 PM   #14
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So the consensus is that the VR Box is generally well built?

Anyone out there running it? I just picked up cat-less down-pipes and want to install as soon as possible.
To be honest it is just like the BMS piggyback with the exception that it also taps into the camshaft sensor:

http://www.vrtuned.com/tuning/vr-tun...v8-twin-turbo/

I am not sure what changing the camshaft sensor will do...or if that is something you really want to mess with in the first place. It costs $1,000+ more than the BMS and I am not sure you are getting any better results as they both do not control fueling.
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      05-07-2014, 04:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
The AC Schnitzer doesn't connect only to the MAP sensor as far as I know. It connects to the main wiring harness/plug to the ECU's and intercepts at least MAP and fuelling.

See page 5 (scroll down to the English text) in their installation manual:

http://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/ac.../121410710.pdf

Here it says that they mainly alter the fuelling and adds a little boost in addition...

Dyno results:

[IMG]http://<a href="http://<a href="http...48.jpg</a></a>[/IMG]

http://<a href="http://<a href="http...48</a></a></a>




After reading the Vividracing install manual, I agree that the VR Box is nothing more than a boost piggyback that adjusts for rpm (and possibly load as a function of rpm and boost).

And as proven by the 11,07s time set at the 1/4 mile by a BMS equipped M5, that product also have a proven record as regards performance (not sure how much of that time was down to slicks or the tune - Trap speed (a good indicator of engine power) at 128MPH isn't that much higher than a stock M5 though?).

BTW. Most of the other ACS tunes are now CANbus and alter fuelling, ignition and boost. Their diesel piggybacks have wiring connectors to each injector, directly controlling injector opening times.
Just to keep the record straight I used drag radials and not slicks
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      05-08-2014, 01:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Just to keep the record straight I used drag radials and not slicks
Thanks, and BTW my comments on trap speed is null and void
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      05-08-2014, 11:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Thanks, and BTW my comments on trap speed is null and void
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      06-05-2014, 11:35 PM   #18
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Send a message via AIM to sales@vivid
I hope to be providing more in depth information on the VRtune as well as dyno sheets in the near future. We've had great success with this product thus far on a variety of platforms. I currently have our flash tune on my M3 which led to better results and driveability than the 2 other tunes used previous.

Also, if pricing is a concern, contact me direct and I will provide aggressive introductory pricing in exchange for feedback.

-James
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      07-23-2014, 11:37 AM   #19
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Any dyno results on this?
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