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      03-17-2013, 07:37 PM   #1
ColdList
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MDM Really let me go sideways! No like :-)

For the first time in a very long time I came extremely close to destroying my BMW (this time my F10 M5). Driving in D3 MDM, steering "comfort", suspension "sport", throttle "sport+", I made a left turn from a red light and man did she go sideways on me. I found myself in a left hand slide, scarily staring straight at the cement center median while the rear tires were burning. I corrected her back to the right where she went into a full right hand slide (now pointing at the right side curb) and then straightened her out and resumed hauling butt down the road. Don't get me wrong, it was fun to see how well I was able to reel her in and how responsive she was to my steering and throttle corrections but I was very surprised that MDM allowed this much slip.

I had just had my springs and 21" HREs installed the day before and I had been enjoying the lower center of gravity and the increased grip form the rear 315 SS tires sand I definitely did not feel like I was pushing the car any more than usual. Mine does have a tune, DP and custom exhaust, and it does put down a lot of power and has issues with wheel spin, but again, I assumed MD would provide a bit better control in this situation. Thoughts? Experience was definitely one of those "exhilarating but sh*t in your pants" things. Glad that she is home safely in the garage which I am currently having remodeled for her increased comfort.
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      03-17-2013, 07:57 PM   #2
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Car Does that regular build regular tires in that mdm mode. Especially in 38 degree weather.
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      03-17-2013, 08:00 PM   #3
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It's possible your new tires are not broken in yet.

On the stock M5, the PSS generally needs at least 500 miles to break in, at least that's what I noticed on mine. Esp. on wet roads (when they are new), not much grip on them.
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      03-17-2013, 08:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuartlogan77 View Post
Car Does that regular build regular tires in that mdm mode. Especially in 38 degree weather.
Yeah and my Michelin SS are brand new and although they do tend to behave in a not so sticky manner for several hundred miles when new I am still surprised at the way MDM let me get that sideways. It was like I had DSC fully disabled. 78 degrees here yesterday. Prob. still hi 60's last night. SS and PS2 really are not good in the cold but like I said it was pretty warm.
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      03-17-2013, 08:16 PM   #5
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I have had a similar situation where MDM let me get VERY sideways. Much more than what I would have thought. I got so much sideways I have no idea whether it was me who bought it back (i gave it a healthy handful of opposite lock) or the car. This was with standard PSSs on 20 rims on a 30C day. It certainly gives you a fair bit of slippage.
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      03-17-2013, 08:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Aussie F10M
I have had a similar situation where MDM let me get VERY sideways. Much more than what I would have thought. I got so much sideways I have no idea whether it was me who bought it back (i gave it a healthy handful of opposite lock) or the car. This was with standard PSSs on 20 rims on a 30C day. It certainly gives you a fair bit of slippage.
Yeah. Exactly how I felt. I wasn't sure if it was me or the car. It sure pulled out of it nicely. Whew!
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      03-17-2013, 08:39 PM   #7
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That would of been a shame becuz your car is truly beautiful. Do you have 305s in the rear or 315s?
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      03-17-2013, 08:44 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bjcompto
That would of been a shame becuz your car is truly beautiful. Do you have 305s in the rear or 315s?
Thank you! 305s. Wide as I could go even with custom offsets.
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      03-17-2013, 08:48 PM   #9
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Wonder how far things would've gone if you had Euro MDM coded. Has anyone in the F10 world had this done yet?............Phil
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      03-17-2013, 09:01 PM   #10
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Wonder how far things would've gone if you had Euro MDM coded. Has anyone in the F10 world had this done yet?............Phil
That I don't know. Really couldn't have gone more sideways though. Slid right out pretty fast.
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      03-17-2013, 09:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
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That I don't know. Really couldn't have gone more sideways though. Slid right out pretty fast.
Be careful on that fresh rubber .............Phil
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      03-17-2013, 09:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
That I don't know. Really couldn't have gone more sideways though. Slid right out pretty fast.
Be careful on that fresh rubber .............Phil
Trust me. Right with you on that my friend.
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      03-18-2013, 01:24 AM   #13
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Not sure whether my car has EURO MDM programmed as it is RHD. MDM on the M5 does allow more slippage as compared to E92 M3 I previously owned.

That being said, I found Sport + throttle setting to be detrimental especially when you make throttle correction in a mid-corner oversteer situation. The throttle map is way to aggressive and it has the tendency to whip-lash the car the other direction especially when you have put in some opposite lock. Sport + is fun on a straight line, but I would stick to Sport if you would like a more aggressive and linear throttle paddle.

Try Sport Throttle with MDM and I think the car should break traction in a much more manageable manner.
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      03-18-2013, 01:32 AM   #14
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Same thing happened to me a couple of months ago. I was coming home late at night, making a left at a light and put way to much power down in MDM going about 35MPH. I was then facing traffic which was no fun, then I spun myself out and hauled ass. Definitely one of those experiences.
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      03-18-2013, 03:24 AM   #15
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Glad to hear that you are alright. I am still afraid to off the DSC (partial or full). It is still cold (3-8c with lots of rain) and I thought it'd be a good idea to drive like how my grandma used to drive her car. Can't wait for the weather to warm up and dry up too though.
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      03-18-2013, 04:15 AM   #16
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If doing a tight turn these cars will want to pull a donut real quick... If getting on the throttle mild to heavy, make sure to start correcting slightly sooner and make sure to not over correct. These cars are well balanced and extremely sensitive to driver inputs. Smooth and precise is my mantra while driving the M5... On more then one occasion I have had the Turbos hit full boost and kick the butt out in 2nd and 3rd while not really trying. 1st gear is like a slip and slide!...In a DCT one of my favorites is to shift to 2nd right as the rear slips,mash the gas straighten out/slight counter steer.. Makes me miss the DCT...

Drive safe Enjoy the ride

Aloha
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      03-18-2013, 06:53 AM   #17
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This is well known. At PCD I did a full 360 spin on a dry track with MDM.

I honestly don't think you should use MDM unless you have track training on this vehicle and can modulate throttle manually.
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      03-18-2013, 10:53 AM   #18
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This is all good info for me. I didn't have a chance to play around with any of the nannies off in Germany while I had it, before it started to get cold. Here in the states I haven't found a big open area to lengthen the leash a little and practice/train in MDM mode. I have been too heavy on the pedal a few times with the DSC yelling at me in response.
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      03-18-2013, 11:57 AM   #19
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I feel driving in MDM is a perfect setting for dry conditions as long as your conscious and you understand the vehicle you're driving. I have a lot of fun in MDM. It allows you to play a little bit but still kicks in under excessive spin. If you want to drift and roast your tires to no end just turn everything off but you can't be sleeping behind the wheel.
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      03-18-2013, 12:26 PM   #20
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My M2 button has traction control off and I "play" with the car here and there in the wet and the dry to understand what it will do. Unfortunately, my tires pay the price for having fun Even with practice though, if you're overly agressive, it will catch you out. So be careful.
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      03-18-2013, 12:45 PM   #21
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to the OP I run the same set up as you do for normal driving and even in entrance turns Im a little lighter on the throttle as I will get loose. The active differential is quite brilliant even in such situations; but with your added power via tune and breathing I can only imaging that the the Tq is overwhelming even the most intuitive of differentials.
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      03-18-2013, 01:41 PM   #22
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Stupid thought, but maybe not... Wonder if a 6MT would behave the same way? I have done some pretty aggressive turning in my M5 and i have had no slipping or sideways-ness at all.... drifting on wide open greeen-turn-lit intersections, 80 here, slidey around the cordner there... no turning the car sideways... i am on 20inch originalk wheels and tires in Miami (70-75 dgree weather this time of year)... i look for these drifting corners all the time to misbehave Occationally my DSC will shudder and drop significant power to my rear wheels but only when i am making the car do things it really shouldnt be doing... all of this with comfort/comfort/economy.... very very rarely do i even need to crank it up with a 6MT to sport+ for anything.... wondering if that will make me go sideways
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