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      05-11-2014, 08:33 PM   #23
jlee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnmd
AWD BMW? Not even a million years. BMW = RWD.
Uhhhhmmm. Aren't they taking the 1 series to FWD?
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      05-11-2014, 08:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnmd
AWD BMW? Not even a million years. BMW = RWD.
Uhhhhmmm. Aren't they taking the 1 series to FWD?
I think it's that Active Tourer BMW wants to come out with that will have FWD. So lame. Oh I think I also heard BMW wants to come out with the Z2 and that will be FWD also. :
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      05-11-2014, 09:01 PM   #25
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I'm just not excited about ///M using the same engine setup as a previous ///M car. Meaning I'll be disappointed if they put another Twin Turbo V8 in the next M5 even if they do combine it with Hybrid Assist. I guess we'll just have to see what engine the next 550i will have since we can pretty much guarantee that ///M will just rework that engine for the next M5. Lol!
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      05-12-2014, 07:12 AM   #26
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So is BMW saying the car is "suffering" explicitly because the car lacks AWD?
Im not so sure thats the case quite frankly. I dont think people are running to buy the e63 because its awd but i believe in general, the competition is catching up to the m5. I think there have been some marketing mistakes with the car and I will tell you my opinion.
1) Product rollout took too long. I know BMW goes through extensive testing on all M products but the f10 M5 rollout in the US took too long from the stop of production of the e60. I think bmw m(if they want to stay sales focused) will need a faster M product rollout going forward with the M5/m6 series similar to AMG. I was losing interest waiting and it it caused me to buy something else following my m6 lease termination while i waited for the m5.
2)Executive package --very mercede-like optioning now and Im not nuts about it. Its almost as though BMW is developing a car for targeted price point rather than just developing an M car. you can opt not to get the executive package, but it bothered me I could not select my individual options such as soft close doors without sun shades. the active seat misnomer on the 2013s bothered me I think this ties in with bmw trying to raise pricing and compete with mercedes. The AMG buyer is a different buyer and I think the f10 m5 was made to attract the AMG buyer. I think the m5 the best car in the world, but as one women pointed out to me when seeing the m5 she said, "Thats a $100k car?". as we all know its worth every penny, but the m5 has gone too far from 1991 m5 with no cup holders, traction and vanos to its current status. Bmw execs were astonished when the press complained about no cupholders in the 1991 m5--they couldnt comprehend why you would need a cupholder with a m5. Personally, I enjoy the luxury side of the f10, but it became too much of a 7series and too little the race car.
3) Lease programs at rollout were terrible. Residuals were way too low yet now almost two years later the car has appropriate residual valuation.

Thats my two cents.
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      05-12-2014, 07:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainblade View Post
So is BMW saying the car is "suffering" explicitly because the car lacks AWD?
Im not so sure thats the case quite frankly. I don't think people are running to buy the e63 because its awd but i believe in general, the competition is catching up to the m5. I think there have been some marketing mistakes with the car and I will tell you my opinion.
1) Product rollout took too long. I know BMW goes through extensive testing on all M products but the f10 M5 rollout in the US took too long from the stop of production of the e60. I think bmw m(if they want to stay sales focused) will need a faster M product rollout going forward with the M5/m6 series similar to AMG. I was losing interest waiting and it it caused me to buy something else following my m6 lease termination while i waited for the m5.
2)Executive package --very mercede-like optioning now and Im not nuts about it. Its almost as though BMW is developing a car for targeted price point rather than just developing an M car. you can opt not to get the executive package, but it bothered me I could not select my individual options such as soft close doors without sun shades. the active seat misnomer on the 2013s bothered me I think this ties in with bmw trying to raise pricing and compete with mercedes. The AMG buyer is a different buyer and I think the f10 m5 was made to attract the AMG buyer. I think the m5 the best car in the world, but as one women pointed out to me when seeing the m5 she said, "Thats a $100k car?". as we all know its worth every penny, but the m5 has gone too far from 1991 m5 with no cup holders, traction and vanos to its current status. Bmw execs were astonished when the press complained about no cupholders in the 1991 m5--they couldnt comprehend why you would need a cupholder with a m5. Personally, I enjoy the luxury side of the f10, but it became too much of a 7series and too little the race car.
3) Lease programs at rollout were terrible. Residuals were way too low yet now almost two years later the car has appropriate residual valuation.

Thats my two cents.
Your 2 cents is right on the money.

1) Your absolutely right, product rollout did take too long. They delayed it for the U.S. Market because of the iDrive updates. Meanwhile the M6 didn't even get the iDrive update for the 2013 Model Year, then again, there was no 2013 M6 Coupe Model Year, only the F12 M6 Convertable for 2012.

2) Yup Executive Package did sour a lot of customers, who I'm sure would have just wanted Comfort Access and Heads Up Display out of the whole package. Very Mercedes indeed. I am still disappointed about 2 things, obviously no Adjustable Side Bolsters and no Option for Comfort Seats like the E60 M5 had. At least they corrected one of those for the 2014 model year.

3) They knew the 2013 residual values would be crap because of their future product rollouts, i.e. Competition Package and Carbon Ceramic Brakes, as well as new standard colors for the F10 M5. ///Marketing at it's finest. The residuals for the M5's are fantastic these days now. It's the reason why I decided not to Lease when I got my 2013 M5. Luckily the horrible residual values of the 2013's aren't hurting me too bad since I got mine at ED Invoice.


Luckily the rollout for the new F80 M3 and F82 M4 has been much much better. I think they knew that their biggest market, the United States, would have been in an uproar if they would have had to wait until the 2016 model year M3/M4 we're out in order to have one here in the states. I'm hoping the next generation M5/M6 will have a much faster rollout as well.

At this point, all I/we can do is guess what the next M5 will bring to the table. I know that it will be much lighter, possibly offer AWD, and will be more powerful, somehow, oh and that it WILL have EPS as well. Afterall, I would have to say that the number one complaint about the F10 generation of M5 is difficulty of getting traction and then weight. They'll correct both of those in the next M5 I'm sure of it. I just really hope it doesn't get bigger. I just can't do bigger, especially if I'm still single by then.
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      05-12-2014, 03:25 PM   #28
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The new 5 will be on the new shared platform "35up" (3-series on up). Definitely see significant weight savings happen.

F10 switch to an all steel chassis, where the E60 had some aluminum. There is room to lose a lot of weight.

Hopefully AWD is an option.
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      05-12-2014, 03:34 PM   #29
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AWD=electric motors in front and gas in rear would make most sense and trend with competitors!
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      05-12-2014, 03:52 PM   #30
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I am hoping AWD is an option as I don't think I will ever need AWD, once I move back south west.
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      05-12-2014, 03:57 PM   #31
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For the love of god, please make AWD optional. If I can only have an M5 in AWD, then it won't be an M5 anymore. It's bad enough that the 8000+ rpm V10 is gone
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      05-12-2014, 03:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainblade View Post
you can opt not to get the executive package, but it bothered me I could not select my individual options such as soft close doors without sun shades.
I'd rather have the ability to spec more cost effective bundled options packs and take a few options I don't need - base M5 lists at equivalent to $125K here, fully loaded (before you spec special order indy options, MPE, etc.) lists at equivalent to $200K.
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      05-12-2014, 04:23 PM   #33
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fingers crossed it'll be an optional choice!!
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      05-12-2014, 04:24 PM   #34
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Can anybody dig up the article that quotes one of the M bosses stating that RWD will be standard and AWD will be optional on the next M5/M6? This is the key to a successful launch of AWD M models by offering it as an option only, NOT standard.

Last edited by Ghetto2315; 05-12-2014 at 05:20 PM.
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      05-12-2014, 04:44 PM   #35
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lol at weight reduction

that means 40-50lbs people
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      05-12-2014, 04:46 PM   #36
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G80 Weight Target is to lose 80-100 Kg from the current M5.

Carbon application is further advanced than new M3 and M4 including Carbon load bearing section and key areas of A , B , C pillars and roof structure mixed with other lightweight materials such as aluminium press-hardened steel and magnesium.

Carbon body panels including a first for an M5 a CFRP roof panel.

XDrive optional but will weigh more than the RWD car.

Possibility of no manual but new M - DCT transmission.

Power is around 600+ HP.

Eco-M mode to dim engine cylinders when in city or public areas.
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      05-12-2014, 05:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
G80 Weight Target is to lose 80-100 Kg from the current M5.

Carbon application is further advanced than new M3 and M4 including Carbon load bearing section and key areas of A , B , C pillars and roof structure mixed with other lightweight materials such as aluminium press-hardened steel and magnesium.

Carbon body panels including a first for an M5 a CFRP roof panel.

XDrive optional but will weigh more than the RWD car.

Possibility of no manual but new M - DCT transmission.

Power is around 600+ HP.

Eco-M mode to dim engine cylinders when in city or public areas.
why couldn't they dim the engine cylinders for the f80??

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      05-12-2014, 05:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frcotting View Post
BMW = RWD? Huh? Ever hear of xDrive? Or did you mean "M car = RWD"? If that's what you meant, ever hear of X5M, X6M?
Lol, you're forgetting that a lot of people don't consider x cars true bmws.

Don't shoot the messenger, I do believe they are true bmws, just saying you'll run into that mentality a lot here, and it's not an unsubstantiated opinion.

He'll, some believe that the 2 series is the only true bimmer left (active gran tourer or whatever aside)
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      05-12-2014, 05:33 PM   #39
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X Drive should be available on every car in the BMW range including all the M cars.
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      05-12-2014, 05:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
G80 Weight Target is to lose 80-100 Kg from the current M5.

Carbon application is further advanced than new M3 and M4 including Carbon load bearing section and key areas of A , B , C pillars and roof structure mixed with other lightweight materials such as aluminium press-hardened steel and magnesium.

Carbon body panels including a first for an M5 a CFRP roof panel.

XDrive optional but will weigh more than the RWD car.

Possibility of no manual but new M - DCT transmission.

Power is around 600+ HP.

Eco-M mode to dim engine cylinders when in city or public areas.

I like the direction M division is taking with their future projects. A lighter, more powerful M5, but hopefully not bigger, will be an absolute blast to drive. We're still a long ways away, plenty of time to enjoy our F10s.
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      05-12-2014, 05:55 PM   #41
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Where to go next? Naturally a hybrid system in conjunction with the engine which would drive the front wheels creating a pseudo AWD car. The technology is trickling down...
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      05-12-2014, 06:10 PM   #42
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I'm hoping BMW M will surprise us with an innovative AWD system.

Perhaps something like the AWD on the Ferrari FF which weighs 50% of tradtional AWD systems. Or maybe a small electric motor for the front wheels.
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      05-12-2014, 06:17 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I agree with that. I would probably get an AWD one myself as a crutch because my driving skills are not world class like my M5.

But a true enthusiast would buy a RWD one.

I read on 6speed about a guy who bought a 997 turbo and modified it to RWD and also took out 400lbs in various weight savings. That's an enthusiast car.
that's the most stupid tune I've ever heard lol...
the money to buy a (say) used 997 turbo, money to modify into RWD and all etc modifications that come with it, why not just get a used GT2?....
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      05-12-2014, 06:18 PM   #44
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AWD ///M cars are inevitable. The guy said "suffering". Ouch! The M3 and M4 AWD are to follow. I don't care what they say or how many times they deny they will make it. I just truly hope they make xDrive optional. And not shove it down people's throats.


They said no AWD M cars. Here ya go. They said no turbo M cars. Well, ... ? And they said no SUV is worthy f the M badge. Uuuummm ... Ok I think you get it.


Having said that, I'll take the first 6MT xDrive M car they make. I would prefer it to be an M3 (still years away), but I am sure I can live with an M5 for a few years. For a change. Especially with the weight reduction. Makes it more appealing. As long as they keep the 6MT.
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