05-22-2014, 01:30 PM | #23 | |
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I guess it should be a compliment that you think a Turbo is a competitor for an M5. But I think you are wrong, this is how the M5 handles its true "$180K Porsche competitor" from a roll: Beating up on a 991 Carrera S is just gravy.... |
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05-22-2014, 01:33 PM | #24 | |
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This is such a silly conversation...
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05-22-2014, 01:44 PM | #25 | |
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I am surprised you resort to the old "in this situation" argument. Isn't that just tired by now? But I digress. Here is another stupid Gustav rolling video that shows how a 997 TT makes the M5 look like a non-competitor. Now, bear in mind, this is a 997 so we are at similar prices. This actually would make it "competition" correct? [u2b] [/u2b] Tom, you and I don't usually get into this kind of thing. I don't care to. It really is silly. We both have points. Cool to disagree. I respect your opinions. All good here.
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05-22-2014, 01:46 PM | #26 | |
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I think OP's concern was just straight line comparison between two cars. One Porsche C2S with 400 HP with about 3120 lb weight (according to Porsche USA) with power/weight ratio of 0.128 hp/lb and the other one BMW M5 with 560 HP and 4400 lb weight with power/weight ratio of 0.127 hp/lb and I think it's fair (IMO). your quote was to compare a 520 HP AWD 3400 lb (I'm not sure about this weight just estimation) Porsche 911 Turbo with a 560 HP RWD 4400 lb BMW M5 ... is it fair?? I can Accept BMW M5 vs Porsche Panamera Turbo! Maybe you are right and M5 is not comparable with C2S. maybe M3/M4 are the better Comparable cars with C2S so let's see the result in a month according to 525 vs C2S it's another unfair comparison. maybe 550 vs C2S....
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05-22-2014, 02:06 PM | #27 | |
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I would say if we want to go for an all out comparison of cars then then the M5 and the Panamera Turbo are the more apples to apples cars. Both made for similar purposes. I would think the M5 beats the Panamera from a roll, the Panamera beats the M5 from a stop and the Panamera tales it on a track (assuming PDCC). I can't believe we are even feeding this silly post. For whatever reason, it always seems like a brand war. I do not dislike BMW. I have owned so many of them and currently have the F12 M6 cab. Sitting here lately deciding on whether to keep the Cali and get rid of the M6 of vice-versa.. Pretty sure we are keeping the M6 if that tells you anything. Heavy as a pig and bad traction on launch but she's a dang rocket once you get her rolling. Makes most cars look silly on short runs (C2S included).
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05-22-2014, 02:11 PM | #28 | |
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M5=502 C2S=325 Panamera S=553 (590 overboost) I have actually done these races in my M6 (pre-DP) against a new C4S from highway rolls at around 60 mph. M6 jumps it instantly. 1.5 lengths without even trying. With DP it would annihilate the C2S and C4S. I have never actually run the TTS vs the M6 but I can confidently say the TTS would leave the M6 in a similar fashion.
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05-22-2014, 02:37 PM | #29 | |
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I guess F1 should start letting people race Turbo engines against NA engines... oh wait, they don't because that is not a fair race... silly them. Don't they know it does not matter what type of engine, as long as the price is similar.
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05-22-2014, 03:44 PM | #30 | ||
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Edit: the following report reffers to 911TTS (560 HP , 700 NM)
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05-22-2014, 04:58 PM | #31 | |
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I can tell you for sure though that my TTS will make my M6 look silly and I assure you that the M6 with DP is faster than the M6 comp pkg. I had that press tune on my M5 and while there was a noticeable difference, once I added DP it was massive. When I put them on my M6 it really became a monster. At the end of the day, in real world scenarios the TTS is going to make the M5/6 look silly. From a stop it would take so long for the M6 t catch up that the race would be over. ON any road with any turns at all I wouldn't even bother putting my M6 against the TTS. And even if we were at a good highway roll speed where the M6 might be close or faster I still would take the TTS all day because throwing the weight of the M6 around at those speeds is downright scary. I always tell my wife that in the TTS there is never rush hour because you can whip in and out of cars in front of you. In the M6 you have massive highway speed but you would rather just keep it in a straight line than try to weave it in and out. And heck, the M6 routinely will spin the rear end out on me when rolling on suburban roads when switching lanes at 30-40 mph and hitting the throttle. The power delivery and overall usability of the power in the TTS is just so far ahead of most cars.
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05-22-2014, 05:17 PM | #32 | |
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Yes price is a definite factor in determining if one car is a competitor to another. If you did a poll, I am sure most would agree with me and you would be in a small minority. A '12 997.2TT equiped with a PDK had a base price of almost $140K, a little closer to the M5 but still substanially more expensive. Even a slightly used 997.2TT PDK still commands a higher price than most well equiped brand new M5's. But I don't believe comparing used to new...just making a point about how much of a price differential there really is between even that car (the one you now brought up) and the current M5. But price is just one factor, there are other factors to determine a car's "competitor". Usually, size, function, quality of materials, and performance are all used. However, when one factor is so out of the range of deviation, it is no longer a "competitor". If you asked a representative at Porsche, if the M5 was a "competitor" to their 911 Carrera S, they would would say 'no, the Carrera S is a two door sports car and not comparable to a 4 door sedan in purpose, we have a Panamera model which is our performance sedan'. If you then posed the same question about the 911 Turbo, they would probably laugh and look at you funny since it would be ridiculous to them to even make the comparison because not only is it a 2 door sports car, but it is so much more expensive and chasing a whole different demographic of competitior (McLaren, Ferrari, Audi R8..etc). The M6 is really the true BMW competitor to a 911 Turbo... 2 doors and 2+2 configuration and much closer in price. |
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05-22-2014, 05:54 PM | #33 | |
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Now do we need to get Vic's grandmother back in the driver's seat to settle this?-lol
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05-22-2014, 06:13 PM | #34 | ||
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For sure the guy who drive super cars has strong common sense (take it as complement ) I didn't want to compare the M6 with 911TTS! you said :" I have never actually run the TTS vs the M6 but I can confidently say the TTS would leave the M6 in a similar fashion" and I just wanted to show you the results! to me, there is no doubt that TTS is a perfect "super car" but since M6 is a GT car they are not comparable and about AWD vs RWD I think this discussion will never end between us so I let it go FOR NOW BTW, Thanks for nice discussion
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05-22-2014, 06:52 PM | #35 | |
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Haha! Ok. For now I guess-lol I am right though. I'm always right. Everyone knows that.......right? Except Vic of course. Often he thinks he's right...HE'S WRONG!!!!-lol
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05-22-2014, 07:11 PM | #36 | |
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Don't go that far
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05-22-2014, 08:01 PM | #37 |
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Will somebody please post a link to a Porsche 911 Turbo (99 anything) vs Golf GTi (stock). That would be a really relevant comparison cos they are both turbo and it should ideally be posted in the VAG forum...
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05-22-2014, 08:01 PM | #38 | ||
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I think you are now SummersList (Summers eve) Why do you bring me into your losing battles LOLOLOL (oh no here comes a rant) haaaaaaa you know we are bestys Cold LOL
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05-22-2014, 08:59 PM | #40 |
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To me the end all be all is price point if I spend xx amount I expect it to be faster than anything that is less $$or the same if I spend 140k on a 991 GT3 which I plan to do then I expect to be slower than a 200k turbo and faster than a 100k M5....it's all bang for the buck in my world....may even spend just 100k on a C7 zo6 but won't decide until I drive it .....I do not want to get outrun by anyone who spent less ..just my 2 cents
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05-22-2014, 08:59 PM | #41 | |
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So, let's talk about exactly how dollars bear no relevance "cos" u can c herrrr.... [u2b] [/u2b] Maybe I'll bring my TTS over to Singapore to show you how the Turbo matches the Non-Turbo Speciale....or you could just watch that video again.
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05-22-2014, 09:04 PM | #42 | |
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I just pointed out your delusions-lol! I love you too! (here we go with that stuff again-hahahahaha!)
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05-22-2014, 09:06 PM | #43 | |
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Piss off Tim (before you comment here)
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05-22-2014, 09:16 PM | #44 | ||
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Disclaimer I am pretty drunk |
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