Who got the 2013 M5 and did not get the "Backrest Width" adjustment buttons?

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Omar

Dear All:

He stated that the M6 did not have it either. I told him it did (coud you please confirm the M6 has it?).

bmwusa.com lists the M6 has having 20-way seats (but it's been wrong before).

I can confirm for a fact that the non-M 6s have 20-way seats.

[hinckley]

I think it's pretty clear that BMW made a simple mistake when they originally posted the M5 seat spec. God knows the US site is always filled with mistakes. We all think this is a pretty big one, but (imo) it was likely just an honest mistake nevertheless.

My issue is why the adjustments were left off of North American 5s and M5s in the first place. If it was a US regulatory thing, why not just say so? It's an easy out.

But the fact that BMWNA has not given an explanation leads me back to my belief that it was a de-contenting, money-saving thing. And that really pisses me off (whehter we're talking about a $75k 550i or a $100k M5).

[AGS]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I think it's pretty clear that BMW made a simple mistake when they originally posted the M5 seat spec. God knows the US site is always filled with mistakes. We all think this is a pretty big one, but (imo) it was likely just an honest mistake nevertheless.

This is correct.

Originally Posted by hinckley

My issue is why the adjustments were left off of North American 5s and M5s in the first place. If it was a US regulatory thing, why not just say so? It's an easy out.

A member on another M5 forum posted this message:

I've just received the following email from Matt Russell, who up until recently was the U.S. BMW M Brand Manager:

Adjustable side bolsters are not currently federalized for any 5 Series model including M5, as has unfortunately been the case since the F10 introduction in 2010. We’re working on it, but don’t have any dates to promise for when the feature may be added to the car. “Active/Dynamic” side bolsters are not planned for this generation M5 or M6.

Originally Posted by hinckley

But the fact that BMWNA has not given an explanation leads me back to my belief that it was a de-contenting, money-saving thing. And that really pisses me off (whehter we're talking about a $75k 550i or a $100k M5).

Not the case. Matt Russell followed up the email quoted above with the following:

More recent information from Matt Russell:

You should expect the Ceramic brakes to become available roughly in Spring 2013 (again, roughly), and your July 2013 hunch about the adjustable side bolsters is probably not far off.

[Un Gato Malodoro]

So I wrote a letter to BMW NA and they called me today in response and asked "what do you want to resolve this?" I said I'd like the correct seats installed and they said that's highly unlikely. So then we got to talking about compensation and they wanted to know how much would I consider. I told the guy I didn't know the fair market value adjustment of my 2013 M5 without adjustable side bolsters vice a future MY with the feature included. He said someone would call me back in a few days so I could have time to calculate this.

Does anyone have any thoughts? I specifically asked if they're having this conversation with others and he said they were. Apparently I'm in a group that has the "1-2 punch" of no bolsters and bad oil pumps. I'd like to remain consistent with others in the group so I'm curious if anyone has a quantifiable answer to bolsters or a more subjective "1+2" (bolsters + oil pump) idea.

Not trying to be unreasonable or intransigent with BMW in anyway; I'm very excited about my new M5 but I'm also conscious of the falling short on delivery and underwhelming start to this experience and don't want to be the outlying data point that screws this up for everyone else.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by AGS

I've just received the following email from Matt Russell, who up until recently was the U.S. BMW M Brand Manager:

Adjustable side bolsters are not currently federalized for any 5 Series model including M5, as has unfortunately been the case since the F10 introduction in 2010.

You're assuming that the 20 way seats failed a federalization test. Maybe. But maybe they were not federalized because they were not tested (i.e. they were removed for cost-savings reasons).

The fact that BMW's response was not more clear makes me dubious.

[AGS]

Originally Posted by hinckley

You're assuming that the 20 way seats failed a federalization test. Maybe. But maybe they were not federalized because they were not tested (i.e. they were removed for cost-savings reasons).

The fact that BMW's response was not more clear makes me dubious.

Well nothing I say will change your mind, but I've heard the issue has to do with the fact that the side air bags are in the seats instead of the doors. The Feds wouldn't approve the design that incorporated both so the air bags won.

[M54ccibo]

Originally Posted by Un Gato Malodoro

So I wrote a letter to BMW NA and they called me today in response and asked "what do you want to resolve this?" I said I'd like the correct seats installed and they said that's highly unlikely. So then we got to talking about compensation and they wanted to know how much would I consider. I told the guy I didn't know the fair market value adjustment of my 2013 M5 without adjustable side bolsters vice a future MY with the feature included. He said someone would call me back in a few days so I could have time to calculate this.

Does anyone have any thoughts? I specifically asked if they're having this conversation with others and he said they were. Apparently I'm in a group that has the "1-2 punch" of no bolsters and bad oil pumps. I'd like to remain consistent with others in the group so I'm curious if anyone has a quantifiable answer to bolsters or a more subjective "1+2" (bolsters + oil pump) idea.

Not trying to be unreasonable or intransigent with BMW in anyway; I'm very excited about my new M5 but I'm also conscious of the falling short on delivery and underwhelming start to this experience and don't want to be the outlying data point that screws this up for everyone else.

<rant>

WTF? There are plenty of people here with both if these issues (myself included) and have received ZERO response. In fact I called BMWNA myself and the highest level I have spoken with is a stinking call center rep.

Must have been some letter to have a discussion around compensation. The M5 is a great car but the difference in treatment from one customer to another is starting to piss me off.

</rant>

[Un Gato Malodoro]

Actually I sent a letter very similar to the one RPiM5 wrote (posted on pg 5). I asked for an official position statement from BMW and a retrofit of the seats; nothing about compensation. However, as they broached the subject, I'm happy to have the conversation with them.

[M54ccibo]

Sorry gato. This was not directed at you, rather, my dwindling patience with BMW on this matter.

[Un Gato Malodoro]

No worries, no offense taken. We're all frustrated and befuddled by BMW's lack of b-school 101: communicate, communicate, over-communicate.

[Stonehands]

Originally Posted by hinckley

bmwusa.com lists the M6 has having 20-way seats (but it's been wrong before).

I can confirm for a fact that the non-M 6s have 20-way seats.

My 2013 M6 does have the adjustable side bolsters. What I do not seem to have is the active side bolsters I thought came with the car.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by AGS

Well nothing I say will change your mind, but I've heard the issue has to do with the fact that the side air bags are in the seats instead of the doors. The Feds wouldn't approve the design that incorporated both so the air bags won.

In a sense you're right. No offense, but I'm not looking for you to change my mind, I'm looking for BMW to change my mind and I don't understand why they're not clearly saying the same thing that you're clearly saying.

[jgarvish]

Agree 100%. BMW is handling this very poorly IMHO!

[jgarvish]

Crazy thing is, my dealer still has the wrong info on its website trying to sell someone else an M5 with 20 way adjustable seats.

[Terra]

[QUOTE=RPiM5;12781131][QUOTE=amgthis;12780991]

And heavier, but they will prolly bump of the power to make up for it.

For comparison purposes, the 650i Gran Coupe is 65lbs heavier than a 550i sedan (4430 vs 4365 respective unladen weights as per BMW USA website).

[RPiM5]

Everyone,

My dealer has just passed to me an official bulletin from BMW NA itself concerning the missing side bolsters. Your dealerships may start seeing the bulletin show up in their systems today. I have posted it below.


Product Planning & Strategy Bulletin

MY2013 M5 Adjustable Side Bolsters.

October 4, 2012

Please note that the standard multi-function seats (4MA) on the MY2013 M5 are
18-way power adjustable and do not include electrically adjustable side bolsters. Although the previous generation M5 (E60) multi-function seats did come with this feature, it is not possible to integrate the adjustable side bolsters on the current generation M5 (F10) at this time due to crash test issues.

Please note that BMWUSA.com previously showed that the MY2013 M5 seats were 20-way power adjustable. This has been fixed and updated to show the correct description.

We apologize for any confusion caused by this error.


So here we have it, the reason why it is not included is because the side airbags are inside the side bolster itself and as was alluded to by Matt Russell are not Federalized, or in other words have not been approved by the Canadian and American governments.

Now the next question is whether or not BMW plans on re-introducing the side bolsters in the 2014 model year and beyond, especially now that the Canadian and American markets have now made such a big fuss about it. Kind of like what happened with the lack of a 6 speed manual transmission when the E60 M5 was first introduced to the American market in 2006.

Personally, I don't think that we'll find any real information about a new 20-way seat for the F10 M5 until next May 2013 when the 2014 model year M5 is released and then begins production around the July timeframe.

Now we'll just have to make do without any adjustable sidebolsters until maybe some individual entrepeneuring person comes up with a retrofit or a replacement seat.

Thank you.

[hinckley]

Thanks RPiM5.

I think that this is what we've all been waiting (and waiting) for. A clear, consise explanation, and a simple mistake in the original bmwusa specs.

[Niko1414]

They came back and asked what type of compensation I'm looking for ?

I do not have the oil pump issue...just wondering what others are asking for ?

[jgarvish]

What's the cost to retrofit this into the car? That would seem fair to me. Others?

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by Niko1414

They came back and asked what type of compensation I'm looking for ?

Keep us up on this.

[tarmant]

I just got a copy of the bulletin and attach same. The dealers were in the dark on this just as much as we were. Such is the communication from BMW corporate. All this hassle could have been eliminated with such a bulletin back when they determined they had to revert to the 18 position seat.

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by hinckley

You're assuming that the 20 way seats failed a federalization test. Maybe. But maybe they were not federalized because they were not tested (i.e. they were removed for cost-savings reasons).
.

+1