The Force was too strong...slipped to the Dark Side

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Do I sense some insecurity here?

Insecurity? Not really - the 991 and M5 are two completely different cars for different markets. Frankly it's folly to even compare the two.. That the comparison can even be made speaks to the excellence of the M5 at what it's designed for.

The fortunate amongst us have both...

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Because it makes me want a friggin' 991 also! I'd just as soon rather not have that thought recurring in my head every time I come to this forum - hell I haven't even received my '14 M5 yet and I'm already thinking of a stablemate. Except I only have a 2 car garage and the wife needs one of the slots, so I am also thinking to upsize the house. My wallet hurts!



I opened up the iPhone app to read the board after several beers - football season is back!!! - and was again staring at this damn thread - I love the 991s and don't need to keep thinking about it!

As you can see, my comment was with tongue firmly in cheek. Keep the pix coming - they're beautiful.

LOL great response--- my wallet hurts too but if you are a leasing type of person, the residual at 2 years on the Pcar (2S at 7500 miles) is 75%. Couple this with the current Conquest program (owning an M5) you will get to add 4500 to your net cap cost. Its hard when you have a great car and the dollar and cents also make sense.

Its a great thread no doubt- and no way did I feel like this about my M5 after a few months of ownership but the M6 still makes me happy

[positiveions]

Originally Posted by clar

Totally 2 different cars for entirely different purposes.

You said it.

Most of us are complaining regarding disconnect between the driver and the road.
I was 26 when I owned my first //M brand. Driving up the canyons with some friends, I felt the car had a purposeful relationship that fed my curiosity, and my inexperience with the brand.

Today, I own an E90 M3, and don't get me wrong, superb vehicle, with some great power-praised by every magazine any person can think of. But it is so isolating.

Thus, people are "jumping ships" due to the washing of the brand. To appease the majority, you must sacrifice tradition, and the beliefs that was attained throughout the years.

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by positiveions

Most of us are complaining regarding disconnect between the driver and the road.

Regarding this, I have a feeling the new ones have gone a long way towards addressing this criticism. All the reports I've read thus far from people who have driven both indicate that major improvements have been made here.

In fact, in that Oct 2013 C&D article comparing 2014 M6 GC, E63 S AMG, RS7 - the M6 GC beat both the others out in the categories that matter having to do with driving feel and performance, and the author went as far as to compare the vastly improved feel over the 2012 F10 M5 they had driven/reviewed a couple years back.

What I don't know if how different/similar the M6 GC feel would be to the M5s - since they share the platform, I have to believe they feel very similar - esp LCI + comp pak.

[clar]

Originally Posted by positiveions

You said it.

Most of us are complaining regarding disconnect between the driver and the road.
I was 26 when I owned my first //M brand. Driving up the canyons with some friends, I felt the car had a purposeful relationship that fed my curiosity, and my inexperience with the brand.

Today, I own an E90 M3, and don't get me wrong, superb vehicle, with some great power-praised by every magazine any person can think of. But it is so isolating.

Thus, people are "jumping ships" due to the washing of the brand. To appease the majority, you must sacrifice tradition, and the beliefs that was attained throughout the years.

It's almost a tradition for BMW to f*** up a new generation of new cars only to fix it in the LCI. I am not sure why it's been happening. They did that with the E46, E60, and now the F10. I am guessing that they would do the same for the F30. Every new generation would come with loads of new toys and luxuries, but with some of the feel/feedback removed. Enthusiasts would be up in arms over it and they promptly address it in the LCI. It's as though it's a conspiracy to force people to buy the same car again.

I was among those who complained about the steering feel on the F10 M5 and the LCI Comp pack addresses that. BMW is not alone in this. Many other manufacturers are also following suit. Porsche has ditched their legendary hydraulic steering for electric. Despite improvements in the new GT3, every reviewer thus far has said that the 997's steering still trumps it in feel and feedback. Even the 991 TT is producing engine/exhaust note thru the stereo like the F10 M5. Who would have thought that?

BMW aspires to be VW while Porsche falls victim to ever tightening regulation on emission. Climate scientists along with politicians are squeezing out automotive purity and enjoyment. What can we do? Nothing much, but to make the best of what's available...

[Boss330]

As the weight of the M5 is a recurring issue (and rightly so) in this thread, I thought I'd make a quick comparo of the different gen 5-serie vs M5 of the same generation. Object is to see if it's the M5 that's gaining bulk relative to the 5-series or if it's just down to the 5's getting heavier all the time...

I have just looked up on http://www.ultimatespecs.com/ so this might be somewhat misleading... I have consistently used the lowest spec 5-series vs the M5 in all generations.

E28:

Curb weight E28: 1140kg
Curb weigth M5: 1430kg

M5 = 25,4% heavier

E34:

Curb weight E34: 1400kg
Curb weigth M5: 1670kg

M5 = 19,3% heavier

E39:

Curb weight E39: 1445kg
Curb weigth M5: 1695kg

M5 = 17% heavier

E60:

Curb weight E60: 1460kg
Curb weigth M5: 1730kg

M5 = 18,5% heavier

F10:

Curb weight F10: 1670kg
Curb weigth M5: 1945kg

M5 = 16,5% heavier

So, it seems the current gen M5 is the one that has added the least bulk during it's transformation and that the first gen added most...

Maybe the M5 isn't that far away from it's origins, but the 5 sure has added some weight over the years...

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by clar

Not sure why a bunch of grown up men are applauding one another on what a great choice they have made for choosing the 911 over the M5. If people are merely talking about what a great car the 911 is, I can accept that though not necessarily agreeing. To say it's a great choice over the F10 M5 is ludicrous. Why anyone even speak of these 2 cars in the same breath is incomprehensible. Totally 2 different cars for entirely different purposes. It's like me going over to 6speed or Rennlist and post about how happy I am for getting the F10 M5 over the 911 because it ferries my entire family of 4 adults along with their golf bags for a weekend of golfing getaway and then some.

I have driven the 991 C2S as a potential replacement for my E92 M3, but was less than impressed with it. Before anyone says I am high on M kool-aid, I am in the midst of finalizing an order for the new 991 GT3. I am planning to parallel import a unit from UK as a replacement for my M3. I would under no circumstances, be comparing it with my M5 in the context of choosing one over the other. I would also like to point out that it's probably not a very sensitive thing to do going on and on about 911s in an M5 forum especially if u have just jumped ship. Congrats on your new ride and enjoy it in good health, but remember, u prob felt the same way when u first got your M5...

Funny. Why would a secure grown adult have to jump in and cite This opinion?-lol! That little voice in your head sure started ticking huh?

And frankly-no, I didn't feel this same way about my M5. I spent a LOT of time trying to figure out how to change setting around and make it feel more sporty feeling because I WANTED to make it feel that way. I NEVER set out to make direct comparisons here. Others did and I am VERY COOL with that. Nothing wrong with talking about why you made choices and the differences in your likings.

Enjoy your GT-3! I still love the M6 cab dearly too but I do find myself making a coffee run in the 991 every day now so that I can start off fresh with a cup of joe and a healthy dose of vvvrrrrooooommmmm!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by positiveions

You said it.

Most of us are complaining regarding disconnect between the driver and the road.
I was 26 when I owned my first //M brand. Driving up the canyons with some friends, I felt the car had a purposeful relationship that fed my curiosity, and my inexperience with the brand.

Today, I own an E90 M3, and don't get me wrong, superb vehicle, with some great power-praised by every magazine any person can think of. But it is so isolating.

Thus, people are "jumping ships" due to the washing of the brand. To appease the majority, you must sacrifice tradition, and the beliefs that was attained throughout the years.

GREAT comment! Nothing to add-lol!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Regarding this, I have a feeling the new ones have gone a long way towards addressing this criticism. All the reports I've read thus far from people who have driven both indicate that major improvements have been made here.

In fact, in that Oct 2013 C&D article comparing 2014 M6 GC, E63 S AMG, RS7 - the M6 GC beat both the others out in the categories that matter having to do with driving feel and performance, and the author went as far as to compare the vastly improved feel over the 2012 F10 M5 they had driven/reviewed a couple years back.

What I don't know if how different/similar the M6 GC feel would be to the M5s - since they share the platform, I have to believe they feel very similar - esp LCI + comp pak.

again, we are talking about different planes of "driving" experience here. While they have improved, I have driven the new gen and to say there is actual "feel" is very relative to the car that is being "improved". I was watching the video that the guy posted the other day about how he "opened it a bit" and I swear I cold literally feel the M5 "floating" down that road. Not being negative about the car as I could also feel that torque pulling it along but the disconnect between car and road is abundantly present. I knew it as soon as I bought the M6 (I quit driving the M5 almost completely) and I knew it to an entirely different level when I drove the 991. This is not meant as "comparison" of the two cars in terms of saying "this one is better". When you get in a car that truly is connected to the experience of driving it just sort of gives you the wake up call at how much your car really might not be.

btw..no criticism taken from your previous "take it to..6speedonline" post-lol! Football started here too and it sucked!-hahahaha!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Boss330

As the weight of the M5 is a recurring issue (and rightly so) in this thread, I thought I'd make a quick comparo of the different gen 5-serie vs M5 of the same generation. Object is to see if it's the M5 that's gaining bulk relative to the 5-series or if it's just down to the 5's getting heavier all the time...

I have just looked up on http://www.ultimatespecs.com/ so this might be somewhat misleading... I have consistently used the lowest spec 5-series vs the M5 in all generations.

E28:

Curb weight E28: 1140kg
Curb weigth M5: 1430kg

M5 = 25,4% heavier

E34:

Curb weight E34: 1400kg
Curb weigth M5: 1670kg

M5 = 19,3% heavier

E39:

Curb weight E39: 1445kg
Curb weigth M5: 1695kg

M5 = 17% heavier

E60:

Curb weight E60: 1460kg
Curb weigth M5: 1730kg

M5 = 18,5% heavier

F10:

Curb weight F10: 1670kg
Curb weigth M5: 1945kg

M5 = 16,5% heavier

So, it seems the current gen M5 is the one that has added the least bulk during it's transformation and that the first gen added most...

Maybe the M5 isn't that far away from it's origins, but the 5 sure has added some weight over the years...

Wow! Interesting data. It is just the 5 in general. Intriguing how the F10 5 series has progressed to the weight of the E34 M5.

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by positiveions

That looks awesome.

I would want to test drive this one:
http://mckenna.porschedealer.com/new...69124/info.php
My favorite color choice.

Fantastic, really like that color!! Hopefully they let us take them on the 605 and stretch their legs

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by wisesoul

Fantastic, really like that color!! Hopefully they let us take them on the 605 and stretch their legs

Oooh that is GORGEOUS!

Be SURE that you drive BOTH the C4s and the C2S. Entirely different driving cars. The C2S IMO is much more lively. The C4S is very locked down to the road-in an utterly amazing way. I found that the C2S was so locked itself that it was more than enough and I wanted the more peppy feel on launches. Amazing how Porsche can create two very similar machines both with different and mutually addictive personalities.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Vic55

LOL great response--- my wallet hurts too but if you are a leasing type of person, the residual at 2 years on the Pcar (2S at 7500 miles) is 75%. Couple this with the current Conquest program (owning an M5) you will get to add 4500 to your net cap cost. Its hard when you have a great car and the dollar and cents also make sense.

Its a great thread no doubt- and no way did I feel like this about my M5 after a few months of ownership but the M6 still makes me happy

It's a bargain. I just did the math. If you get 5k off plus the conquest, you end up paying $11k a year.

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

It's a bargain. I just did the math. If you get 5k off plus the conquest, you end up paying $11k a year.

Wow - thats nuts. What sale price did you use for this calculation?

I need to get a 3rd garage slot.

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Oooh that is GORGEOUS!

Be SURE that you drive BOTH the C4s and the C2S. Entirely different driving cars. The C2S IMO is much more lively. The C4S is very locked down to the road-in an utterly amazing way. I found that the C2S was so locked itself that it was more than enough and I wanted the more peppy feel on launches. Amazing how Porsche can create two very similar machines both with different and mutually addictive personalities.

Will do! The wide hips of the C4S sure are nice too. I'm gonna go in with an open mind because I don't want to be disappointed after driving a GT3 RS. Thanks for the advice

[krisnetaji]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Oooh that is GORGEOUS!

Be SURE that you drive BOTH the C4s and the C2S. Entirely different driving cars. The C2S IMO is much more lively. The C4S is very locked down to the road-in an utterly amazing way. I found that the C2S was so locked itself that it was more than enough and I wanted the more peppy feel on launches. Amazing how Porsche can create two very similar machines both with different and mutually addictive personalities.

Does the 911 Conquest rebate for 2013 and 2014 models? I recently bought a 2014 and they did not offer me the rebate. Told me it was only on 2013 models.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Wow - thats nuts. What sale price did you use for this calculation?

I need to get a 3rd garage slot.

Probably a lower one and the money factor isnt incredibly low at .00200 either...

Most well optioned CS2's are in the low 120's and the high 120's to low 130's for the C4S. Porsche has about 11% of front end invoice in the deal (holdback is separate) and a good deal can vary but a full invoice deal can be hard to get. Im sure as the 2013's grow long in the tooth one can walk in and get one for invoice or close since they are will be sucking up flooring. To get a payment under 12k for a year would mean a 1k pmt including tax and money factor so almost an 800 dollar base pmt. This would be a base model car for sure.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by 14M5

Does the 911 Conquest rebate for 2013 and 2014 models? I recently bought a 2014 and they did not offer me the rebate. Told me it was only on 2013 models.

Conquest was for 2013 models.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

Wow - thats nuts. What sale price did you use for this calculation?

I need to get a 3rd garage slot.

If you mean MSRP, it was about $115k but I now realize I hadn't gone through all the option tabs so its missing some key items like PDK and PDCC.

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

GREAT comment! Nothing to add-lol!

What's funny though is that P car fanatics are saying the same of Porsche, and threatening to jump ship for....lotus, vette, etc.

Every manufacturer is abandoning connection and involvement for safety & technology. To be honest, I thought the 991 felt isolated when compared to the 997/987. I'm hoping some rawness returns in the 991 GT3. We shall see.

[ucla95]

As someone who's new to this thread - but not the forum - curious on the group's thoughts on these 2 Q's:
1 - isn't the 991 a good deal more $$ than the M5 (esp when considering the EuroDel discount)? Are we fairly comparing cars in a similar price range?
2 - has anyone thought about this (both the car and the substance of this post): http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1584738281-post1.html

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

If you mean MSRP, it was about $115k but I now realize I hadn't gone through all the option tabs so its missing some key items like PDK and PDCC.

Y the P cars are ridiculous with their options. Whenever I use the configurator, I wind up at 130k without even trying. Here's a build at 144k - BEFORE the damn power kit which is another 17k.

http://www.porsche-code.com/PE6NEGC9

They're nuts with their options.