Press Tune?

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Where do you have this info from? Reliable source?

My sources/info point to one Karl Otto Noelle as the "source" of the tune available.

Why was there no tool to read the DME?

The M5 is "read", coded and diagnosed by the same BMW e-sys etc systems that other BMW's also uses. There is no problem downloading/uploading any BMW spec software with those tools as far as I know.

I see two scenarios:

1: Noelle have used a press car and read the DME with regular BMW tools
2: Noelle have received access to the BMW files early

What my info suggests is that the so called press file is the same file as BMW press cars had, but with the possibility that some tuners have altered some parts of it.

In fact I have a COMPLETE set of the latest version of BMW software files on my computer. So, not so far fetched that someone like Noelle (or others) should have gotten those files somehow...

Very reliable. Can't tell you more than that unfortunately. I didn't sign a contract or something like that but first i need to have my source's permission.

Interesting theory. The 2nd one is basically what i keep talking about. BMW publishes it's files way before releasing the car and that's why you see tunes out there flying even before tuners touch cars.

One thing though, the tools for coding/diagnosing differs from the tool that can flash/read software. At least for my E92, they are different and one can't do other's job.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Soorena

Very reliable. Can't tell you more than that unfortunately. I didn't sign a contract or something like that but first i need to have my source's permission.

Interesting theory. The 2nd one is basically what i keep talking about. BMW publishes it's files way before releasing the car and that's why you see tunes out there flying even before tuners touch cars.

One thing though, the tools for coding/diagnosing differs from the tool that can flash/read software. At least for my E92, they are different and one can't do other's job.

E and F cars are different apparently and uses different tools. But regardless, the tools were available to tuners etc at the time of the M5 launch. The F10 M5 wasn't the first F car, or even the first F10.

[Leveraged Sellout]

Originally Posted by AlphaAlpineM6

I don't think alllll cars reviewed have this press tune. possibly even just a few.

Well, but why would all the owner-recorded quarter mile, 0-60, and 0-100 times be equal to or faster than the magazine cars? Then they all have this "press" tune...which doesn't make sense. Also...it seems every time someone does get a tune, somehow we never see conclusive B/A dyne tests...unless I'm missing a few.

[Mperial]

Originally Posted by Leveraged Sellout

Well, but why would all the owner-recorded quarter mile, 0-60, and 0-100 times be equal to or faster than the magazine cars? Then they all have this "press" tune...which doesn't make sense. Also...it seems every time someone does get a tune, somehow we never see conclusive B/A dyne tests...unless I'm missing a few.

You're not missing anything. Sounds to me like a press tune is a myth for the reasons you've given. Or it might be a semantic charade posing as a genuine tune. Why any manufacturer would demo a superior product only to then release something inferior to the buying public is hardly the recipe for success. The data doesn't support such a hypothesis.
Nothing conclusive, just assertion and conjecture.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Mperial

You're not missing anything. Sounds to me like a press tune is a myth for the reasons you've given. Or it might be a semantic charade posing as a genuine tune. Why any manufacturer would demo a superior product only to then release something inferior to the buying public is hardly the recipe for success. The data doesn't support such a hypothesis.
Nothing conclusive, just assertion and conjecture.

Agree.

This press tune is snake oil. It either does nothing, or it does epsilon like the CP tune.

[Spinny02]

Spoke to the shop this morning. They can only work on the car when there mechanic is off from his day job at 5pm.... that wont work for my ED trip.... I was going to just skip the tune and get the DP's and bring them back in my luggage.. then he told me they were a couple hundred lbs..... show how much i know i thought they would be like 50 lbs???

[Leveraged Sellout]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Agree.

This press tune is snake oil. It either does nothing, or it does epsilon like the CP tune.

Agreed with you and Mperial. I think it's a juicy story and that's it. Honestly I don't see any evidence at all that there is or ever was an alternate, factory-provided set of air/fuel/boost values for this car. The next question is, whose stock dynos do we believe? The only real way to find out would be to do some serious calculus on a quarter mile run. Rough (I mean super rough) calculators I've used put it at around 620 hp or so. So... I just read that officially, the 560 hp rating is supposed to be at something like 115 degrees, full humidity, hot engine, completely non-broken in, at a ridiculous altitude. It's the minimum it will make in that scenario. So, 620-640 seems reasonable to me for ideal conditions.

[AlphaAlpineM6]

Originally Posted by Leveraged Sellout

Agreed with you and Mperial. I think it's a juicy story and that's it. Honestly I don't see any evidence at all that there is or ever was an alternate, factory-provided set of air/fuel/boost values for this car. The next question is, whose stock dynos do we believe? The only real way to find out would be to do some serious calculus on a quarter mile run. Rough (I mean super rough) calculators I've used put it at around 620 hp or so. So... I just read that officially, the 560 hp rating is supposed to be at something like 115 degrees, full humidity, hot engine, completely non-broken in, at a ridiculous altitude. It's the minimum it will make in that scenario. So, 620-640 seems reasonable to me for ideal conditions.

I raced a press tuned m5 against my M6 when I was stock.. we were dead even

[Leveraged Sellout]

Originally Posted by AlphaAlpineM6

I raced a press tuned m5 against my M6 when I was stock.. we were dead even

What speeds was the race from and to? I mean, a stock M5 and M6 will be very close anyway. If this press tune was good for the 60-80 hp increase at the crank, he would have put a couple car lengths on you most likely.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Leveraged Sellout

What speeds was the race from and to? I mean, a stock M5 and M6 will be very close anyway. If this press tune was good for the 60-80 hp increase at the crank, he would have put a couple car lengths on you most likely.

Agree. If you look at Niko1414s tuned M5 it pulls away from M6s without trouble.

This observation confirms the press tune does nothing. At best it is the CP tune which also does close to nothing.

[Spinny02]

CP may not be a huge step but it may have opened up speed to 155+ (not confirmed) B-1 was able to get 164 on video with no rev limiter kicking in.

thoughts?

[Protious]

I doubt uncorrected that is more then 155, the M5 reaches "167" on it's speedometer - which is actually "155" before the engine cuts off.

[Leveraged Sellout]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Agree. If you look at Niko1414s tuned M5 it pulls away from M6s without trouble.

This observation confirms the press tune does nothing. At best it is the CP tune which also does close to nothing.

I'm thinking that's exactly what it is...if it is anything other than a story.

[Hunter5179]

I'm getting "re-tuned" by Eurocharged Thursday and they say they will make "adjustments" for the DP's and Intakes.. I will most likely be with sharpie who owns an M5 and is on this board. We will do a few races to compare our cars.. one will be stock and the other tuned and vice versa... if there is an actual real world gain that we can clearly see during these comparo races I will then go to AMS and do a Dyno as I did one about a month ago and it showed the tune did nothing more than any other M5/M6 who had my similar mods and was stock... then I'll go to the track and do some runs and really see if it's all a hoax. Either way... I'll post results when I get them in. I believe AMS/EAS are close to releasing their tunes.

[Leveraged Sellout]

Originally Posted by Hunter5179

I'm getting "re-tuned" by Eurocharged Thursday and they say they will make "adjustments" for the DP's and Intakes.. I will most likely be with sharpie who owns an M5 and is on this board. We will do a few races to compare our cars.. one will be stock and the other tuned and vice versa... if there is an actual real world gain that we can clearly see during these comparo races I will then go to AMS and do a Dyno as I did one about a month ago and it showed the tune did nothing more than any other M5/M6 who had my similar mods and was stock... then I'll go to the track and do some runs and really see if it's all a hoax. Either way... I'll post results when I get them in. I believe AMS/EAS are close to releasing their tunes.

That would be great, really want to see some real world numbers. So what was the deal...Eurocharged "tuned" your car before, and there was no difference? Have you dyno'd since the DP/intake install to see what those are getting you before the tune? This should be interesting.

I cannot wait for the AMS/ESS tune to come out, it's like waiting for Christmas.

[Hunter5179]

Originally Posted by Leveraged Sellout

That would be great, really want to see some real world numbers. So what was the deal...Eurocharged "tuned" your car before, and there was no difference? Have you dyno'd since the DP/intake install to see what those are getting you before the tune? This should be interesting.

I cannot wait for the AMS/ESS tune to come out, it's like waiting for Christmas.

Well, I did the Eurocharged tune a few months back and I did feel an obvious difference from stock then I did a Mustang dyno (not the proper dyno) and it showed 577whp and 615WTQ which I thought was good. This was before I put downpipes on. Then about a month ago I went to AMS and put the car on the dynojet.. now at this stage I have downpipes on which is the only difference from the first dyno run I did. The results came back and I put down 570whp and 548wtq which is similar to what stock M5/M6's put down with the same mods. So tomorrow night I will meet up with sharpie and Eurocharged and we will do some runs between our cars. 1 stock, 1 tuned then 1 with the old tune and one with the updated tune for the downpipes and intakes. I will post the outcome here also on my personal thread in the M6 forum.

[Spinny02]

Change in topic but also valid.

I have been working with a BMW dealership in Germany and i was only inquiring about getting the M-Drivers pkg installed on my car (software). As we all know thats not possible but why not ask(thats just who i am ....) It turns out the rep did a lot of research with BMW and that US cars are not equipped with the hardware needed to "delimit or add the VMAX update for the M-Drivers pkg".

" get an answer from BMW. It isn`t possible to make a Vmax upgrade , because thre is no offer for the US markt. This extra euipment (hardware) wasn`t evelop for the US vehicle.
The engine from an US-model is different to the german engine. I am sorry for this, but this is the final information from BMW.
"

I wonder why we have diff hardware?

[boots]

Could you have bought a german model. I'm going to ask my brother who lives in Germany to see what it takes to buy the german version and ship it over here.

[Leveraged Sellout]

Originally Posted by Hunter5179

Well, I did the Eurocharged tune a few months back and I did feel an obvious difference from stock then I did a Mustang dyno (not the proper dyno) and it showed 577whp and 615WTQ which I thought was good. This was before I put downpipes on. Then about a month ago I went to AMS and put the car on the dynojet.. now at this stage I have downpipes on which is the only difference from the first dyno run I did. The results came back and I put down 570whp and 548wtq which is similar to what stock M5/M6's put down with the same mods. So tomorrow night I will meet up with sharpie and Eurocharged and we will do some runs between our cars. 1 stock, 1 tuned then 1 with the old tune and one with the updated tune for the downpipes and intakes. I will post the outcome here also on my personal thread in the M6 forum.

Did you ever get around to writing this up? Very interested to see what happened.

[Hunter5179]

Originally Posted by Leveraged Sellout

Did you ever get around to writing this up? Very interested to see what happened.

I didn't get a chance to meet up with sharpie but he dies like the updated tune and notices a difference. I too also notice a difference but I'm not going to jump the gun until I hit the AMS dyno on the 28th. Their technician was out of town in dubai so I had to wait. I'm also planning on going to the track as well sometime in the next couple weeks. Been out of town myself. Will post results soon.

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by Hunter5179

I didn't get a chance to meet up with sharpie but he dies like the updated tune and notices a difference. I too also notice a difference but I'm not going to jump the gun until I hit the AMS dyno on the 28th. Their technician was out of town in dubai so I had to wait. I'm also planning on going to the track as well sometime in the next couple weeks. Been out of town myself. Will post results soon.

Curious to see some 3rd gear pulls against another car.

[Hunter5179]

Went to the track today and did 3 runs. Weather was a crisp 45-50 degrees with a chilly wind blowing at 15-20mph. I had my 21's on and my PSI was stock which is not ideal but I wanted to run it like I drive it. Even though I did burnouts before each run the temp and 15-20mph winds cooled the tires off pretty quickly so there was a little spinning. As you can see from the 60ft times they aren't great so there is a ton of room for improvement. Mind you I'm on 21's too. So considering all this if it was a little warmer out or not so windy and my tires were softer I can easily get the 60ft in the 1.60-1.80 range and the car will easily do 11.40's all day and could possibly go 10.90's-11.30's with less tire pressure or even smaller diameter wheels and slightly warmer temps for better grip. Also a thing to note is that I didn't boost the car at the start....the car has a slight delay after I floor it which affects the 60ft time do to the slight roll that happens that triggers the clock then the power kicks in. So if I boosted the turbos a little by holding the brake for 2 seconds and juice the throttle a bit then letting go of the brake I believe this car can go 10'90's-11.30's. I might even try launch control just to see. I had full traction off everything maxed out with the suspension in comfort. All I did was floor it. No tricks. Here you go. Check out the trap speeds and 60ft times and you will understand the potential. I'm always in the left lane. Feel free to add your slips, info and experiences at the track.

Couple other Nuts