07-07-2012, 05:24 PM | #23 |
Private
6
Rep 63
Posts |
You are grateful to give BMW 100k? LOL
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-07-2012, 09:03 PM | #24 |
Major
544
Rep 1,417
Posts |
I wouldn't be so quick to blame BMW. As I said in a previous post, a few dealers who were "abusing" the ED privilege probably ruined it for future prospective buyers. They were out there offering cars at an attractive price to draw volume for a program that was meant for dealers to offer their local clientele. BMW had to stop the abuse, and the only way was to shut down the ED pool and force dealers to work out of their allocations. I would expect them to hold this policy until M5 demand normalizes to a regular supply/demand balance.
__________________
Current: 2022 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2014 Anvil WW Jeep Wrangler
Previous: 2019 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2016 Silverstone M5 CP, 2013 Monte Carlo Blue M5 CP (ED on 9/1/12), 2009 Carbon Black M5, 2006 Silverstone M5, 2003 Sterling Grey M5, 2000 Anthracite 540i6, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9Ltd, 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 1978 Mazda RX-7 |
Appreciate
0
|
07-07-2012, 09:16 PM | #25 |
Major
544
Rep 1,417
Posts |
Whatever. Without speaking for him/her, what I believe ucla95 meant was he/she was happy to have the opportunity to do ED on an M car because it had not been offered when the M division first started producing cars. The ED program is a unique opportunity to enjoy your new BMW in a whole new environment than your local area. Also, I think you'll find that most ED customers were able to get their car for well below 100k. I know mine, with EP, 20" wheels and B&O, was just over 90k.
__________________
Current: 2022 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2014 Anvil WW Jeep Wrangler
Previous: 2019 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2016 Silverstone M5 CP, 2013 Monte Carlo Blue M5 CP (ED on 9/1/12), 2009 Carbon Black M5, 2006 Silverstone M5, 2003 Sterling Grey M5, 2000 Anthracite 540i6, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9Ltd, 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 1978 Mazda RX-7 |
Appreciate
0
|
07-08-2012, 09:15 AM | #26 | |
Banned
23
Rep 102
Posts |
Quote:
Check the web or go to bimmerfest forum, ask people what is a fair price for ED, they will tell you invoice +$500-$1500. I have done 3 EDs so far, all 750li, I paid invoice plus $1000 for all three. If you like to pay MSRP or even MSRP plus for your ED, that's fine, but don't call it abuse when a few good dealers offer a good/ fair ED price When most greedy dealers can't. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-08-2012, 09:45 AM | #27 | |
First Lieutenant
80
Rep 347
Posts |
+1
Quote:
__________________
2012 X5 35D.
2013 M5 ~MCB / Silversone II full~Exec Pkg~20' wheels~B&O~Xpel Ultimate PPF. - Sold ! |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-08-2012, 10:49 AM | #28 |
Lieutenant
19
Rep 505
Posts |
I just don't understand why I can do an ED and get ED invoice + $500-$1000 for most BMWs and all the sudden you can't on the M5. I hope BMW is just trying to Keep the initial batch "exclusive" and in the next 6-12 months they resume standard ED policy and do not take the M5s out of dealer allocations.
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-08-2012, 01:22 PM | #29 |
Private
6
Rep 63
Posts |
The sudden reversal of policy has really soured my opinion of BMW. Regardless of our "abusing" the "privilege" of an ED, BMW should honor their commitments to their loyal base. We are exactly the owners that BMW needs, repeat clients with expensive taste. I realize BMW has the right to refuse but I thought we would be treated better than this. Maybe 8-10 grand doesn't mean a lot to some people on this forum but it sure does to me. The mass confusion surrounding this launch is surprising. I doubt most sales guys at the dealerships across the nation have any clue on what to tell their clients, especially discerning ones that frequent this forum. I'll have to wait until BMW decides that we have served our punishment for "abusing" them. Or I guess I can just drop a 100k elsewhere...
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-08-2012, 07:11 PM | #30 |
Lieutenant
247
Rep 596
Posts |
An M5, or any M car isn't most BMW's.
I've done 10 ED's (with #11 scheduled) including 4 M cars, none of which were on the std ED program; i.e., they all came out of the dealer's allocation. it was only since the economy tanked that BMW included M cars on ED program, and they obviously underestimated the demand for the F10 M5 at a reduced ED price. BMWNA wants to protect it's dealers, and will have no problem selling every single M5 on the US Delivery pricing. When the dealer's cry foul, BMWNA listens. If 10 large prevents you from buying an M5, so be it: they won't be hanging around the dealer's lots very long. If you are even a partially skilled negotiator you should still get a great deal from many dealers.
__________________
2020 X3 M40 Alpine White over Cognac • 20" BBS CC-R • Cerium delete
2017 440xi Estoril over Saddle Brown • 6-speed • Every stinkin' option |
Appreciate
0
|
07-08-2012, 07:58 PM | #31 |
Major
544
Rep 1,417
Posts |
My comment about abuse was not referring to the price. I fully agree that a certin profit over dealer cost is reasonable. In fact I got my ED order at a small profit over invoice from my local dealer. I also agree that there are greedy dealers (those that charge MSRP + a premium for hot sellers) who sour the perception of those good dealers that seek to do right by their customers.
My comment was referring to the practice of offering ED orders to anyone who called. According to the sales manager at my dealer, the ED program was intended to be a delivery option for dealers to offer their local clients. The intent was not to have dealers out there selling at a thin margin over invoice to all takers across the country. That's why ED orders must be delivered to the selling dealer or the PDC. You cannot do a courtesy deliver to another dealer like you can with a regular US order. I understand it was this practice that caused BMW to revert to past practice of having ED M5 orders come out of dealer allocations.
__________________
Current: 2022 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2014 Anvil WW Jeep Wrangler
Previous: 2019 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2016 Silverstone M5 CP, 2013 Monte Carlo Blue M5 CP (ED on 9/1/12), 2009 Carbon Black M5, 2006 Silverstone M5, 2003 Sterling Grey M5, 2000 Anthracite 540i6, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9Ltd, 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 1978 Mazda RX-7 Last edited by AGS; 07-08-2012 at 08:36 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
07-08-2012, 09:32 PM | #32 | |
Private First Class
16
Rep 132
Posts |
Quote:
Also, do you work for a dealer or something? I was thinking of doing ED for M5 next year but not sure I would do that after this. In the past, I dealt with my local dealers for M3 quotes and they were a joke (the BMW NA official showroom at Wall Street was quoting me the US Port of Entry Price as ED price even though I asked him to confirm). Another clown dealer in CT made a wonderful offer of splitting 50/50 ED delivery discount. At least when you walk in to MB NYC flagship showroom (MB USA spent $220 million on this showroom), they offer you 7% right away for ED without any haggling (for CLS). |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-09-2012, 07:55 AM | #33 | |
Major
544
Rep 1,417
Posts |
Quote:
The courtesy delivery option is not too painful. I met with my CA last Thursday to sign some paperwork, and coincidentally he told me one of their 2 US delivery M5 allocations is being courtesy delivered to Colorado. The customer had his M5 deposit down for a while, but recently relocated. With the courtesy delivery option, the car will go directly to the local dealer in Colorado (skipping a trip to the selling dealer in NJ). There's a $500 fee that gets paid the the receiving dealer in Colorado to cover their cost to prep and delivery the car to the customer. Sounds like you've had unfortunate luck with some of the local dealers. It's too bad that these greedy dealers spoil the public's perception of car dealers in general. I can say that I have been very pleased with the service I've received. When I decided to do ED for my M5, I called my dealer and the sales manager and I agreed on a specific dollar mark-up for them to earn over cost. So they worked up the order at ED invoice for the base car, plus invoice on all the options, then added their pre-agreed mark-up. It was a simple and painless process.
__________________
Current: 2022 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2014 Anvil WW Jeep Wrangler
Previous: 2019 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2016 Silverstone M5 CP, 2013 Monte Carlo Blue M5 CP (ED on 9/1/12), 2009 Carbon Black M5, 2006 Silverstone M5, 2003 Sterling Grey M5, 2000 Anthracite 540i6, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9Ltd, 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 1978 Mazda RX-7 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-09-2012, 08:31 AM | #34 | |
Major
103
Rep 1,312
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-09-2012, 09:50 AM | #35 | |
Banned
23
Rep 102
Posts |
Quote:
We - the consumer, the good dealers, the greedy dealers all play the same game under the same rules. Those dealers lost business because they are too greedy, not because a few good dealers "abused" ED program. If you work for a dealer, then I understand why you call it "abuse". But if you are not, then I don't see why you called it abuse. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-09-2012, 04:51 PM | #36 | |
Major
544
Rep 1,417
Posts |
Quote:
I obviously have not been able to articulate my point in a clear way with short replies, so I’ll try a different angle. First, let me state that I agree completely with your statement that I highlighted in red above. I walked from my long-time dealer with my 2013 M5 order because of corporate greed. They replaced the management that I dealt with for my last 2 M5 orders, who I knew well and who took care of me, with new “corporate management” (they have a corporate parent company that owns at least 2 other BMW dealers that I know of). When I asked for something off of MSRP to recognize my long-term relationship with the dealership (4 5-series leases back-to-back over the last 12 years) the response was “we can get MSRP from the market, so we’re going to charge MSRP.” They would not even give a token $500 off. I thought this was very telling on how the new management would handle my relationship going forward, so I told them that was unacceptable and I walked. I have started a new relationship with another dealer who has, so far, treated me very well. We negotiated a fair profit over cost for my 2013 M5 Euro Delivery. Second, I think part of the communication problem is a misunderstanding about the perspective from which I made my comments. They are from the perspective of a loyal, long-time M owner who prefers to work with a local dealer. I have been very fortunate to have the option to work with reputable local dealers, a luxury that is not uniform across all markets. My last three leases (9 years) have been driving various M5s, and I’ve met many owners who feel the same way as I do. They like to buy locally (to keep money and jobs in their community) and enjoy a personal, reciprocal relationship with their CA/sales manager (meaning they don’t hammer them for the absolute lowest purchase price, and in exchange their CA takes care of them with the little stuff that pops up from time to time). As an example of the strong relationship I used to have with dealer #1, the old sales manager (who was replaced as part of the corporate management overhaul) waived $600 of replacement tires when I turned in my 2006 M5 lease and picked up my 2009 M5. Third, I will concede that this is not a clear case of abuse. As I sat writing this reply, I thought more about it and this situation falls into a grey area between abuse of the ED program and BMWs intent for the ED program. Since I do not work for a dealer, I have no idea what the ED guidelines actually specify. But it is my understanding that the intent was as an alternative delivery option for dealers to offer their “customers”. And this is where things get hazy, how do you define “customers”. When I made my original reply I was defining, and I believe BMW defines, customers as someone with whom the dealer has an existing relationship. Therefore, in my opinion, abuse of the program would be posting on a chat board the message: “Euro Delivery at ED invoice + $1,500, good while allocations last”. So, finally, on to my attempt to better explain my original point (if you’re still reading that is!). A member of this board was frustrated with his dealer and their lack of knowledge about how the ED program worked. So he invested the time to call around to find a new dealer that better understood the program. He found 2 dealers that were willing to place ED offers at an attractive mark-up over invoice, so he placed his order with one of them. Then, he shared the 2 dealers' contact information with any board member who requested it. What followed was a flood of orders from these 2 dealers that either: (1) used up all of the build slots allocated to the ED program, and thus the only build slots left were those allocated to specific dealers; or (2) caught the attention of BMW, who viewed their practice as abuse of the program and changed the rules. I have no idea which of these outcomes occurred, but if it was the first then it is what is it is – the factory can only produce a finite number of cars, so until the next batch of M5s are allocated the ED pool is empty. If it was the second outcome, which seemed to be the theme of this thread, then the misuse of the ED program by the 2 dealers deprived M5 enthusiasts who have a long-standing relationship with their local dealer the opportunity to participate in the ED program (at least for now). This is what I was thinking about when I originally posted earlier in this thread. I fully understand and appreciate your point, that you as the customer who is spending your hard-earned money has the right to shop around for the best deal. It is these contradicting views that are the grey area in this debate - while the 2 dealers did not place the “Euro Delivery at ED invoice + $1,500, good while allocations last” advertisement, is taking an order from everyone who calls based on the deal they saw on M5Post.com tantamount to such? You already know which way I lean, and I’m reasonably sure you lean the other way. Sorry for the lengthy reply, but it was necessary to clarify my previous comments and hopefully prevent this discussion from devolving into a full-fledged, mud-flinging argument. You may not agree with some (or all) of my opinions, but that is what makes this board great – the ability to engage in dialogue with other M5 enthusiasts. Since we’re both doing ED on September 1st, I look forward to discussing further over a beer. Or we can forget this thread altogether and just enjoy a beer!
__________________
Current: 2022 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2014 Anvil WW Jeep Wrangler
Previous: 2019 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2016 Silverstone M5 CP, 2013 Monte Carlo Blue M5 CP (ED on 9/1/12), 2009 Carbon Black M5, 2006 Silverstone M5, 2003 Sterling Grey M5, 2000 Anthracite 540i6, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9Ltd, 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 1978 Mazda RX-7 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-09-2012, 08:20 PM | #37 | |
Private First Class
16
Rep 132
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-09-2012, 09:01 PM | #38 |
Private
6
Rep 63
Posts |
The most recent poll shows 24 EDs on 9/1 or 9/3....not exactly flooding the market. I would assume if one is a rabid M fanatic willing to fly to Munich on the first available day for the US market then one would be trolling this forum. Can't imagine BMW needs to change policy over this insignificant number, no matter how "special" M cars are.
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-09-2012, 09:37 PM | #39 | |
Major
544
Rep 1,417
Posts |
Quote:
Second, if you read my post carefully, you would have seen that my gripe is not with the ED program. It was with what I believe is the unfair usage of the ED pool by a small number of dealers. The purpose of the ED pool was not to create a race to see which dealer can sell out the slots fastest. It's to provide a unique delivery experience and enhance the BMW brand. In my opinion, every BMW customer should have the right to enjoy the ED experience by working with their local dealer if they so choose. Nowhere did I insinuate that meant paying more for that privilege. In fact your assumption that I would pay "5k to 10k over ED invoice" is way off - the price I negotiated is substantially below $5,000 over invoice. Did I pay a little more than the $1,500 over invoice the dealer in Atlanta was offering - yes, but only what I thought was reasonable to avoid having to fly to Atlanta to pick up the car and drive it back to NJ.
__________________
Current: 2022 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2014 Anvil WW Jeep Wrangler
Previous: 2019 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2016 Silverstone M5 CP, 2013 Monte Carlo Blue M5 CP (ED on 9/1/12), 2009 Carbon Black M5, 2006 Silverstone M5, 2003 Sterling Grey M5, 2000 Anthracite 540i6, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9Ltd, 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 1978 Mazda RX-7 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2012, 02:45 PM | #40 | |
Lieutenant
41
Rep 584
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
CurrentNone! RETIRED [15' GLA250][14' M235i F22 AW-ED 06/16/14][12' 335i F30 AW-ED 05/01/11 PCD 07/01/11] [11' M3 E93 MW-ED 08/13/09 PCD 10/14/09] [09' 135i E82 AW] [07' 335i E90 SB]
[ED Photo 12'] [ED Photo 11'] [ED Photo 09'] [PCD Photo 09'] |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-31-2012, 10:02 AM | #41 |
Colonel
196
Rep 2,245
Posts
Drives: '16 991.1 911 GTS, '16 F85 X5M
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NNJ
|
Well this sucks, I was off the boards for a month or so and come back and read this.
So other than not being able to buy the M5 at ED Invoice+ what are other effects? I'm assuming ED MSRP isn't a problem. Realistically, if I'm looking for a later (Spring 2013) delivery on ED, could I expect to pay ED Invoice plus $4-5k? Something like $2-3k off ED Msrp? Or would you expect full msrp still? I was never expecting to get ED Invoice plus $1k anyhow.
__________________
2016 991.1 911 Carrera GTS
2016 F85 X5M - Carbon Black/Mugello Red |
Appreciate
0
|
07-31-2012, 10:07 AM | #42 | |
First Lieutenant
33
Rep 380
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-31-2012, 10:37 AM | #43 | |
Major
544
Rep 1,417
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Current: 2022 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2014 Anvil WW Jeep Wrangler
Previous: 2019 Donnington Grey M5 Competition, 2016 Silverstone M5 CP, 2013 Monte Carlo Blue M5 CP (ED on 9/1/12), 2009 Carbon Black M5, 2006 Silverstone M5, 2003 Sterling Grey M5, 2000 Anthracite 540i6, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9Ltd, 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, 1978 Mazda RX-7 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-31-2012, 10:58 AM | #44 | |
Colonel
196
Rep 2,245
Posts
Drives: '16 991.1 911 GTS, '16 F85 X5M
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NNJ
|
Quote:
__________________
2016 991.1 911 Carrera GTS
2016 F85 X5M - Carbon Black/Mugello Red |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|