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10-21-2011, 08:08 AM | #45 | |
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I understand that the majority of owners of the car are between their 40-60's, but what is there to make them spend about 15-20K more on the M5 from say a loaded 550i? The fact that the 550i is a luxury cruiser and the M5 grown-up sports car. Some people do buy the car simply for the badge or the fact it has more HP. But I'd bet if you poll a segment of owners, the fact that the car is an all-around wonderful performer, and can perform well at the track without feeling like you're in a luxury cruise-liner, is a big reason for them to pull the trigger on one. Now, you aren't going to go out and set track records in an M5, but you will have a blast throwing her around on Sunday while taking 2-3 high-profile clients to a business lunch, in comfort, on Monday. |
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10-21-2011, 08:52 AM | #46 | |
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As for MT's vs DCT's I totally see his point, even if "the customer's always right". Let's face it. The performance of this car is moving beyond the driver's ability to control it, and the MT simply can't keep up with what the rest of the car can do; even with a highly experienced driver. Yes, there's something to be said for "driver involvement" and "tradition", but if you hold back the car's performance for the sake of nostalgia, then what's the point of buying this car? I already saw this coming when the 335 was introduced. Even the 6 speed ZF slushbox produces slightly better numbers than the 6 MT. Now the new generation is 8 speed, and there's the DCT option in some models. Like it or not, I think the MT era is coming to a close. |
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10-21-2011, 08:55 AM | #47 |
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WELL SAID!! I am i shock too that because of the US only, we will get 6MT option. So what about the our neighbors in the north as someone asked..anyone know if they get same option?
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10-21-2011, 08:58 AM | #48 | |
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10-21-2011, 09:37 AM | #49 | ||
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10-21-2011, 09:39 AM | #50 |
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I'll still dream of an M3 wagon until I can no longer dream...
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10-21-2011, 10:42 AM | #52 |
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2 points-
1.M really does not care about U.S wants/needs in respect to the inherent want to please them. Rather its about profits. The manual will come to an end when the cost of implementing it (which he even notes is costly) no longer makes sense compared to number of sales of manuals. Its hard to even go by numbers of manual car buyers out there for a model that offers both dct/smg and manual because if the manual went away, a large portion of those people who would have picked manual, will still buy the car and just go with the dct. Therefore when they look at how many buyers they will lose by getting rid of the manual, it is a lot less than simply looking at how many people buy manuals when given the option. The cost will not be worth it in upcoming models as it has drastically changed this past few years. 2. Can someone explain the X5/6 trick diff they talk about and how that is different than the current m3/m5 diff (which I thought was pretty "trick" already! |
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10-21-2011, 12:04 PM | #53 | |
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I'm not one of them. |
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10-21-2011, 12:53 PM | #54 |
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Does anyone have a ballpark figure as to how much it costs the M division to R&D a MT for the M5? There were 20,548 E60 M5's sold and let's say even 40 percent of those sales were in MT, that's still 8000+ M5's which isn't really a small figure. So unless it really costs a lot to get a MT in there, MT should still be around but obviously towards the future it'll be gone.
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10-21-2011, 01:58 PM | #55 | |
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And if you want the full-on M5 experience. Then stick with the M-DCT. It is more suited to the car and there is something more useable in the fact that early morning drives to the office are flawless when you stick the car into D. But the cars responses are better served in the M-DCT. M-DCT is what this car was conceived with. The manual is less an afterthought and more a form of appeasement. I can forsee the M3 and next generation M2 Coupe retaining manuals , but for the M5 and above the days are pretty much numbered. In fact if Bimmerposts spy photographers pull themselves away from all these imported US reality shows conceived purely for the brain dead and vaccous. Then they might get the new BMW M(4) coupe which is now leaving Garching.
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10-21-2011, 03:15 PM | #57 | |
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Best regards, south
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10-21-2011, 03:20 PM | #58 |
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A manual is proper on smaller cars:1M, M3 , but on larger cars like M5, M6 I don t understand the reason for a manual
Also, reading the comments I haven t observed at least one pro manual from... let s say an E60 M5 6MT driver... It s a big difference in driving a smaller car with a manual vs driving such large cars with manuals.... |
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10-21-2011, 03:23 PM | #59 | |
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The board does't need to get involved unless the car will be serial production. GTS and CRT had ZERO board approval and never was presented to them. But if the board did approve something they could disapprove as well- CS is an example of that. There is also an M that was dealt the same fate maybe someone else will chime in...
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10-21-2011, 04:07 PM | #60 | |
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Me too. But theres hope. Check out what racing dynamics can do with a 335i Touring R35s : (142 54 90 350 B) Technische Daten: Hubraum: 2.979 cm3 Leistung: 287 kW (390 PS) bei 6.250 min-1 Max. Drehmoment: 520 Nm bei 2.800 min-1- 5.100 min-1 Vmax: > 300 km/h Combined with their rear differential (162 10 54 336 C) with up to 80% breaking, Brembo-brakes and Bilstein/HR suspension, this is going to be as close to a M3 touring as we can get And , of course, in Imola red!! |
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10-21-2011, 05:52 PM | #61 |
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James May now hates the Nurburgring and I'm starting to as well.
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10-21-2011, 10:22 PM | #62 | |
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Also, for our climate, an AWD M5 would have been a real winner IMO. I for one would consider an AWD M5 my perfect vehicle.
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10-22-2011, 01:40 AM | #63 | |
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10-22-2011, 06:41 AM | #64 |
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I remember a time... not too long ago... when BMW was telling us how great SMG was... and why do you Americans insist on a old fashioned manual. They even put on racing schools showing us the benifits. Still we prefer (to buy) manuals.
SMG was a fail. Long live the manual trans. |
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10-22-2011, 08:16 AM | #65 |
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10-22-2011, 11:57 AM | #66 | |
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Opinion and/or preference is not predicated on ownership (..which should be obvious considering that enthusiasts, by nature, harbor opinions on all types of automotive related issues without experience nor ownership) . The fact that people want to ROW their own cogs is the simplest of concepts to understand. Nothing else is worth considering to a die-hard manual transmission fan. Why? Because to these types of people (...myself included), paddles do not provide the same visceral connection. It's those very things that you mentioned that provide the connection and foster driver involvement. Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 10-22-2011 at 12:02 PM.. |
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