BMW M5 F10 vs Panamera GTS (Motortrend Comparo Video)

[BruceinCary]

Originally Posted by mwlmd

I think you forgot one of your kids. You need a MINIVAN.

I'm not going there! My long suffering wife has a Yukon XL Denali that works for the entire family. All I need is a vehicle to ferry 4 kids in a pinch.

Originally Posted by AlexK

Whoa... They will definitely not fit in Panamera, you need a totally different class of vehicle... You're in luck, though - another European car manufacturer makes just a perfect vehicle for you, and best of all it is available here in USA:
http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/sprinter/passenger-van

Don't joke that's what we rented in Italy this summer - in Europe they are immune to minivan jokes.

Originally Posted by mhh

+1. I have an E63 Wagon and an M5 and enjoy them both, just as you will enjoy your new M5. After all, no reviewer is saying the M5 is a bad car, just that he prefers something else.

Hmm E63 wagon has now dropped the two rear facing seats, otherwise I'd be all over that.

[LAKEOM5]

You need to drive the cheapest car you can find. Save every penny for all the weddings in your future. Is the last kiddo a boy or will you be paying for 5 trips down the isle?

Holy estrogen! You will also need locks, guns and chastity belts!

Good looking fam.

[727jbh]

[QUOTE=BruceinCary;12672558]I'm not going there! My long suffering wife has a Yukon XL Denali that works for the entire family. All I need is a vehicle to ferry 4 kids in a pinch.


I have a Yukon Denali for all the "necessary needs" and a M5 for all "MY needs".

[727jbh]

Originally Posted by LAKEOM5

You need to drive the cheapest car you can find. Save every penny for all the weddings in your future. Is the last kiddo a boy or will you be paying for 5 trips down the isle?

Holy estrogen! You will also need locks, guns and chastity belts!

Good looking fam.

+1

[HotIce]

Originally Posted by flightz71

After all these months of reviews and feedback, I've concluded the 2 following were the greatest flaws for the new M5:

1. It's TOO FRICKIN HEAVY.

The old e60 was a porker... but throw on another 400 lbs? ... At least they did it right with the 3 and made it lighter. Also... so much sound deadening they had to artifically pump engine music into the stereo? Just get rid of sound deadening in excessive areas, reduce weight, get more of a natural sound back. How hard can that be??? I get that this car is marketed towards old rich men that want to show off, but it is an M car, it should work hard to balance heritage between marketing/business growth.

2. Steering Feel

This is a trademark of M cars. The steering feel in the e46/e39 cars were already butchered with the e92/e60 cars, but even worse now? Someone needs to go back to the drawing board and discover the roots of why this is so important. What sets the car apart from the AMG's, the RS's.

This. Unfortunatlely, we're hearing more of the same with every review. Too Big. Too Heavy. Too Soft. I wouldn't say the E60/e92 butchered ///M's feel. It got a bit more civil, but the 'feel' was still there. It felt like an M Car.

I feel more of that steering feel will be lost when the F80 M3 is introduced with electric steering. An M car isn't suppose to have any compromises.

[2008911tt]

This is not a comparison test. Two different cars, two different classes. If they wanted to test equivalent power trains they would have used the Panamera Turbo. Yes, the price differential would have been far greater but the power tns would have been relatively comparable.

No, I don't have an ax to grind. I own a 2008 997 Turbo and 2K10 M3. I just like comparison tests to actually use comparables.

[burrito007]

Originally Posted by BForbes

Is .3 seconds really over two car lengths when drag racing?

general rule is .1 sec is a car length

[AbuArije5]

why didnt they use the turbo s version

[smashhell]

Originally Posted by AbuArije5

why didnt they use the turbo s version

Again that is because the turbo S cost 2 times as much as the M5.
Even the GTS cost 30k more than M5.

[clar]

Originally Posted by AbuArije5

why didnt they use the turbo s version

In most reviews i have read, the Turbos fared worse than the GTS in terms of driving pleasure.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by flightz71

After all these months of reviews and feedback, I've concluded the 2 following were the greatest flaws for the new M5:

1. It's TOO FRICKIN HEAVY.

The old e60 was a porker... but throw on another 400 lbs? ... At least they did it right with the 3 and made it lighter. Also... so much sound deadening they had to artifically pump engine music into the stereo? Just get rid of sound deadening in excessive areas, reduce weight, get more of a natural sound back. How hard can that be??? I get that this car is marketed towards old rich men that want to show off, but it is an M car, it should work hard to balance heritage between marketing/business growth.

2. Steering Feel

This is a trademark of M cars. The steering feel in the e46/e39 cars were already butchered with the e92/e60 cars, but even worse now? Someone needs to go back to the drawing board and discover the roots of why this is so important. What sets the car apart from the AMG's, the RS's.

It's a 5 series.. It's MEANT to be the most luxurious, with the 7 series being the limo style cutting edge v12 car

Any calls to remove deadening from an m5 only comes from people who don't know what the 5er should be

The 1 series is the lightest, least featured, it's nice entry level, it has less power but goes faster in a straight line AND around a corner

It's a throwback to the old e30 and e36 in a way. Heavier due to modern requirements but the lightest bmw offers and nice and compact. Younger people buy these generally

You get this if you want a bmw 'sports car' with the coupes being stupidly impractical (rear seats are rubbish!) - with the hatch upper specs being proper practical fun small cars (less practical than a vw or audi hatch though) , and having very large amounts of the 3 series inside, and styling (in mainly the front end)

The 3 series has more features, still well affordable, bit heavier, more room, more family friendly. The type of car everyone would reasonably be able to have

The 5ers are your real executive cars tons of features, super comfortable, smooth, tons of room, a bit porky, quiet

Then the 7 (skipping 6 a it's more of a 5.5 coupe lol) is your real ultimate luxury chauffermobile.

[monaco330]

Originally Posted by CAPSGOD

The GTS has phenomenal engineering under the skin but look at it! Six figures for a car that bears an unflattering resemblance to a Honda Crosstour rear.

Wonder if people driving cross tours think it looks like a panamera lol

[clar]

People really ought to stop blasting M for the M5's increased weight and size. M basically inherits the 5 series platform from the series car and add on their magic. They can't change the base platform. Direct all your complaints to the series car department please! The next gen of cars starting from the next 7 series should see dramatic weight reduction from the series cars, which would benefit the M cars too.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by clar

I have no issue with the reviewer's take on the GTS suspension relative to the M5. I don't have any beef with the M5's suspension. It's way cosy enough for me in comfort mode. The steering on the M5 however, is as what he said. It filters in road noise, but not enough feedback. When i first collected my M5, i had thought there was something wrong with the tires and promptly sent it in for balancing. It didn't help much. There was always this low frequency hum to the wheel like a constant vibration. The feedback is also not as good as it should be for a hydraulic setup. It's evident when i climb back to my E92 M3, which has more feedback. In my opinion, M didn't get it right this time. It's still a pin sharp responsive steering though, just not feelsome. After a few thousand km on the clock, the steering seem to have lost that vibration. Apart from the steering and active sound, everything else about this car is astounding esp the drive train!

Dump the M5 for the GTS.. you still have an M3, which doesn't have all the annoying things that bother you in the M5.
It's not BAD, but the competition is so much better.
That said I have to gloat I love my 528i with it's little NA 3L I6.. if I had the money no doubt it would be GTS all the way. (Because I don't think the M5 is that much better than a regular 5 series, sorry folks. They just did what they had to to give it the required HP, arbitrarily return to hydraulic steering which doesn't help given the muffling in all the other suspension components, and employ patch-a-leak like the Active Sound. Too much '1M' philosophy. Arguably, the 550i is a better choice, esp. if it's getting the tu engine and power bump, because it has active anti-roll, and arguably you want comfort anyways, unbolted rear subframe and EPS is preferred since the 'effort' of the M5 end product, well you can see.)

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Dump the M5 for the GTS.. you still have an M3, which doesn't have all the annoying things that bother you in the M5.
It's not BAD, but the competition is so much better.
That said I have to gloat I love my 528i with it's little NA 3L I6.. if I had the money no doubt it would be GTS all the way. (Because I don't think the M5 is that much better than a regular 5 series, sorry folks. They just did what they had to to give it the required HP, arbitrarily return to hydraulic steering which doesn't help given the muffling in all the other suspension components, and employ patch-a-leak like the Active Sound. Too much '1M' philosophy. Arguably, the 550i is a better choice, esp. if it's getting the tu engine and power bump, because it has active anti-roll, and arguably you want comfort anyways, unbolted rear subframe and EPS is preferred since the 'effort' of the M5 end product, well you can see.)

Just checking...have you driven any of these cars (other than a 528)?

[Wolf]

The noise of the panny reminded me of Jeremy's M3 CSL review. Man the noise it made is to die for and the handling. That car made me fall in love with BMW.. Sadly, with everything going on with BMW now, time has definitely changed. Hopefully, they get things back on track with the F80 M3. Lack of steering feel on an M5? Now I have seen it all.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Because I don't think the M5 is that much better than a regular 5 series, sorry folks. They just did what they had to to give it the required HP, arbitrarily return to hydraulic steering which doesn't help given the muffling in all the other suspension components, and employ patch-a-leak like the Active Sound. Too much '1M' philosophy. Arguably, the 550i is a better choice, esp. if it's getting the tu engine and power bump, because it has active anti-roll, and arguably you want comfort anyways, unbolted rear subframe and EPS is preferred since the 'effort' of the M5 end product, well you can see.)

I have active anti roll on my 535i, and the M5 drives much better. You're mistaken; have you driven the M5?

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

Just checking...have you driven any of these cars (other than a 528)?

Maybe you should have waited to test drive it before you ordered it.
Don't let any of the less than perfect reviews discourage you.. every cloud has a silver lining.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by bm323

I have active anti roll on my 535i, and the M5 drives much better. You're mistaken; have you driven the M5?

That's great, I am not missing much not having it on my 528i either.
Test drive? In my dreams perhaps.
But some people have driven every car on the planet and are still clueless
If I had the money, I would get a 550i S63tu, or save for the GTS.

You guys have to understand were this M5 is coming from. It only exists to make money, gone are the days when the M or performance spec of a lineup was a loss leader, when it cost more to produced than they charged you for it, but BMW got the halo to shine on the regular models. Now they spend all of the money researching the base lineup, and the M spec has to make it's own economic case for it's existence. Hence the penny pinching and cheap mods (ouch). I am pretty sure this M5 has eaten through all it's predecessor's good will, the next M5 will be widely known as the car people who don't know cars (but have the money, at least) get. ie. not an enthuisists car. The guy who buys for the bigger the number.. 'M' must mean something, right?
You guys know how much money BMW is making? They are some happy folks these days.

[mhh]

Originally Posted by grimlock

That's great, I am not missing much not having it on my 528i either.
Test drive? In my dreams perhaps.

Sorry, no wheel time in the M5 = little credibility here. Sit back, look and learn is my advice.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Test drive? In my dreams perhaps.

you're honest; some lie in the forum.

[clar]

Originally Posted by grimlock

That's great, I am not missing much not having it on my 528i either.
Test drive? In my dreams perhaps.
But some people have driven every car on the planet and are still clueless
If I had the money, I would get a 550i S63tu, or save for the GTS.

You guys have to understand were this M5 is coming from. It only exists to make money, gone are the days when the M or performance spec of a lineup was a loss leader, when it cost more to produced than they charged you for it, but BMW got the halo to shine on the regular models. Now they spend all of the money researching the base lineup, and the M spec has to make it's own economic case for it's existence. Hence the penny pinching and cheap mods (ouch). I am pretty sure this M5 has eaten through all it's predecessor's good will, the next M5 will be widely known as the car people who don't know cars (but have the money, at least) get. ie. not an enthuisists car. The guy who buys for the bigger the number.. 'M' must mean something, right?
You guys know how much money BMW is making? They are some happy folks these days.

Not a lot of logic in what u are saying. Which car doesn't exist to make money? I could prob go on and dissect whatever u have said, but it all boils down to the fact that u are trying to comment on something that u have no experience or knowledge on. If u ever get to test drive the M5, u would eat all your words in a big hurry. I absolutely love the M5, but i am not oblivious to its shortcomings cos i am no fan boi. Not being perfect does not make the M5 less of a car than it actually is.