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12-30-2012, 11:20 AM | #133 | |
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12-30-2012, 11:53 AM | #134 | |
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couldn't agree more look at what they've done to the three series...its all over the roads driven soccer moms...average and enormous. Just keep making everything bigger, heavier and appealing to the masses...all while ruining the brand...can you say GM and Ford of the late 90's and early 2000's |
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12-30-2012, 12:46 PM | #135 | |
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What BMW should do perhaps is to do focus on one or two core products like the upcoming M4/M3, which will be lighter and faster. Lastly, I am a happy BMW customer who enjoys the luxury and sport nature of my M5, best car I've ever owned.
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12-30-2012, 12:48 PM | #136 | |
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12-30-2012, 03:03 PM | #137 |
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Performance numbers all over the place with little standardization. I am on my 4th BMW and 2nd M. I am completely enthralled with my elegant beast and so is everyone I know.
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12-30-2012, 03:29 PM | #138 | |
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You mentioned in post 83 that the E92 Comp pack is a "joke" yet, the E92 M3 w\comp pack managed to do better track times than the Merc C63 AMG w\performance pack - 30hp more - on most every track out there. Remember, the C63 is a car in it's class. Each year, the ///M division improves on the previous gens. and compete with cars in its class - Better suspension, brakes, engine etc... The E92 comp pack was an improvement over the previous gen. - without an increase in HP... Look, the E92 V8 weighs less than the Inline 6 in your E46 M3.... That's pretty amazing if you ask me!! So, my question to you is, can an E46 M3 with Comp pack hang with a new C63 with perf pack (with experienced drivers at the wheels)?? Not even close and the only person you're fooling (or making excuses for) is yourself but thats ok, because it sounds like old M cars are perfect for you
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12-30-2012, 08:25 PM | #139 | |
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I'm still not sure what car I'm going to buy next, but I am 100% sure it wil not be a BMW. |
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12-30-2012, 08:43 PM | #140 | ||
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12-30-2012, 10:36 PM | #141 | |
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And since you brought it up, there's nothing "amazing" about the S65 weighing less than the S54 when it goes from a cast iron block to weaker aluminum block. And no, especially if you put power numbers aside, the E9X is not superior to the E46.
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12-30-2012, 11:00 PM | #142 |
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12-31-2012, 01:33 AM | #143 | |||||||||
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If you understood the history of ///M (rather than just buying the badge) you'd understand how your views completely encapsulate the absolutely average consumer BMW is now marketing to, and you'd understand exactly why it's such a tragedy to those of us who hold the spirit of ///M so dear. Quote:
Does the M5 improve? No. In it's first C&D comparo it lost, to the E63 AMG & the S6 (MY GOD!!!). That's a HUGE step back from it's previous gen debut. Any track time improvements are mostly attributable to tire companies making better rubber, and more torque from the blown motor. And the fact that you just confirmed that the M3 has now been beaten by everything else in it's class, well, thanks for the support. With the new M3 confirmed to basically be a factory chipped N54/55, well, color me unimpressed. Does M even make their own bespoke motors anymore? No, just hopped up versions of the I6 and V8. Before you go all smart-ass, have you sat in one? Interior sucks a$$, but that shifter (and my jaw dropped, believe me) is better than any BMW I've been in for a long time, it's almost Honda/Miata short & tight! As opposed to the CTS-V or C6 manuals which are like shifting with a walking stick. Quote:
For the rest of us, yes we care about lap times for ///M cars. That is, of course, where they were born. But I'm sure you already knew that, probably... So rather than watch M fade away, we're trying to express our feelings, IN STEAD of simply buying something else (hey, it worked for the new Civic emergency redesign). I'm not spending my time typing cause I like my keyboard, I sincerely hope BMW listen (as has happened before), and it has some effect. Slim chance, and with guys like you buying M's simply because they're not "regular BMW's", it clearly shows the market BMW are targeting. Quote:
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After almost 20 years of racing and teaching 50+ schools (Porsche, BMW, Audi, Ferrari), yes, I have driven them all. If you want my opinion, it's on every page of this thread where it's been +1'd half a dozen times. And I agree with C&D's rating, as much as I don't like it, the new M5 is LAST in it's class (a class that doesn't even include the RS6). It's not funny how few M owners are on this thread, it's SAD. And it says it all about the cars ///M is making, and who's buying them. Quote:
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Great defence of the brand and the current mentality of ///M owners. Really, you've made my argument for me. ///M has spent far too much time putting stickers on and calling it a special edition, putting slightly modded "regular series" BMW engines in SUV's and calling them M's, and bloating the hell out of everything. The surprise success of the 1M, a total parts bin car, speaks volumes to how out of touch ///M is. Basically copying improvements many had already done to their 135's and 335's on their own, basically ///M was 4-5 years behind the game. Still, they were so unsure of it (when on many fronts it gets back to ///M basics), they couldn't even bring themselves to give it a true M name, and were so unsure of it's success they only scheduled one year of production! But you can bet X6M's get a full production schedule! This is the mentality of the company, that they basically stumbled into producing their best reviewed car in years. Just imagine if the ///M designers spent all of the time on improving the M3 that they spent on "special editions", then we'd have our E90 M3 CSL that could go out there and truly stand toe to toe with Chevy's and not get their a$$ handed to them. Even the smallest car, the 1M, is just under 3400lbs!!! There was a recent video comparison of all the M cars (was it Chris Harris, can't recall), and the E46 was his favorite of all the M's. Having driven all of them, for fun, yeah, I'd take one. Much more driver enjoyment than a new M5. This is not a hate-on of BMW or ///M, it's a call to save it! Just like C&D's "Save the Manuals", SAVE the M's! The lightweight, RWD, balanced cars (unfortunately, NA is long gone at this point)! Great choice TK! YOU understand ///M, even if they no longer do. Good luck with the E30 build. Pro3? Didn't think it was a big class in Florida? Guessing not since you're talking about a rear suspension swap. The endurance racing scene in the NW is just epic! Fields bigger than I've seen in years, and so many track within a short distance. I can still smell my Carmyth from Infineon, looking forward to the M3 at Thunderhill in 2013!
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Last edited by Ironring Racing; 12-31-2012 at 02:46 AM.. |
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12-31-2012, 02:16 AM | #144 |
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Wow! You must have a lot of time on your hands.
I absolutely love my e92 and f10
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12-31-2012, 02:56 AM | #145 |
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Just passionate.
But let me guess: cosmetic mods, wheels, exhaust, probably Dinan, which you think gives you "cred" and doesn't hurt your (probably) lease? I'm pretty sure our paths will never cross.
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12-31-2012, 03:06 AM | #146 |
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Here are the lap times from the Nurburgring. The m5 performed and beat tons of super cars and some of the same ones it lost to on this track. If thats not impressive I don't know what is, And its not even the m5's strength. So i must ask, are these tests really accurate being done by non professional drivers and on different days? You fools make me laugh, as you guys just keep on bickering on and on and on.
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html Last edited by Tylerstar; 12-31-2012 at 03:11 AM.. |
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12-31-2012, 05:10 AM | #147 | |
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If that somehow fails, the next Corvette will probably get my money. I suspect that GM will finally put a new, handsome interior sans the embarrassingly pathetic level of fit and finish in it and "viola!", will have a success on their hands. The atrocious interior of the C6 was the only thing keeping me from purchasing one, and if the interior is vastly upgraded, GM will have addressed the only caveat I had in owning a Corvette. Let's face it, Corvette fan or not, the performance and aftermarket are undeniably there; the only thing stopping many buyers of my generation was the terrible seats, interior quality and lack of modern day options. |
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12-31-2012, 09:16 AM | #150 | |||
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The question should be, can YOU read? Obvioulsy not so, I just answered my own question. I never insulted the E46 M3. Go back and re-read my comment about the E46 M3 again, or ask your husband (this is an insult since you don't know what one is- unless you do have a husband then, it's probably a compliment?) to read it for you. I used to own an E46 M3 w/comp package and loved it! All I said was, can it hang with the new C63 AMG? No, it cannot. My argument being, the new E92 M3 can and has improved over the old M3 by competing with its rivals. Was that so hard to understand? Clearly, for you it was.. You seem to put the E46 M3 on a pedestal but yet, you drive a 335? You just made my argument by how many non-///M owners talk trash about the new ///M's but don't even own one, lol. Thanks! As far as the new M3 is concerned, where are you getting that I confirmed that it got beaten by everything in its class? Are you still having trouble reading again? You should consider praticing what you preach (reading) instead of talking out your ass on a forum and bragging about being an instructor in which no one gives a shit about but you.... The E92 has been around since '08 ('07 in Europe) and has beaten every car in its class (C63, RS4, S5 and pretty close match with the RS5). That's almost 5 yrs of ass kicking. Do you get it yet or do you want me to draw you a map on what I'm trying to say???? What I'm trying to say there is that the competition has stepped it up. It took the competition almost 5 yrs to do it but they are finally a match to the M3. Now, BMW need to fire back and I believe they will with their new M3/M4. You may be a "little" fast on a track (if you are in fact an instructor but who really gives a damn) but you're quite slow in understanding what people write on a forum, lol. Quote:
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At the end of the day, quit your crying, bitching and bragging on the forum, and put all this into a letter and write BMWNA and tell them how you feel about it. ---> Be sure to have someone read to you what they reply back because you obviously have problems with that.. You also have a problem with where BMW ///M brand is heading so, buy another brand with your $$$ There is one other thing that you may be overlooking. BMW ///M brand may not be getting softer BUT it may be "fine tuning" their cars for specific clientele? In other words, the same clientele who buy an M5 or M6 is typically not the same who buy an M3 or 1M. Perhaps, BMW ///M are making those two cars (M5 and M6) with performance in mind but also the clientele who normally don't track their cars. On the flip side, they will make the M3, M4 and future M2 for those who want a high performance car, that slaughters the competition but can also be tracked by the average track day junkie... Just a thought.... Enjoy your 335 Peace
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12-31-2012, 09:28 AM | #151 | |
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12-31-2012, 10:56 AM | #152 |
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good reference points but not the be all end all. I am curious to see where a 328i would be in comparison to 335i. Also Where is the CTS-V?
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12-31-2012, 11:57 AM | #153 | |
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I think the point you're missing is everyone's entitled to their own opinions, even you. But that doesn't give you the right to degrade everyone else's. Feel free to continue calling me names and making judgements, and I will continue to buy, lease, and modify my cars in a way I enjoy. PS: I'm sure you have an opinion about my decision to buy a 458 as well. After all, what would a old fart like me do with a 458 that he doesn't track, right? Well answer is simple, enjoy it. After all, that's my right.
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12-31-2012, 12:15 PM | #154 | |
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The e9x M3, 1M, M135 (I know it can be debated whether this is a "true" M car), have all been at or near the top of their respective classes. |
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