The Force was too strong...slipped to the Dark Side

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by ColdList

I don't know how much the DCT with launch helps though. It is not much "control". Mine spins incessantly where as on the 991 it simply grips and goes violently. Plus, by the time he recruits and engineer to sit in the passenger seat and operate the 12 step LC on the BMW you will already be off in the distance-lol!

By far it's not the most friendy task to accomplish. I don't even try to use it anymore it's the dumbest feature on the car too complicated. Maybe it's me(:

[boots]

I beleive that tire chirp came from me using the Fred Flintstone method on your car so don't tell anyone. That is our secret.

Originally Posted by Vic55

I have tears in my eyes... I cant believe the tune allowed me to pull 2nd gear chirps in a pdk equipped car. The agressiveness is scary compared to the docile shifts in the DCT.

[997usa]

I just sold my 991 S PDK in GT Silver - beautiful car, really enjoyed it - probably one of the best cars in the world. I had a persistent rattle that the dealer nor PCNA could resolve -

Having had three 911's in the past years (alongside with a MB SL500 and some other semi-exotics), i can tell you from Experience, that while the 911 beats most cars in design, power and overall build quality, the F10 M5 is in a different league.

The smoothness of power, the torque, the quiet ride and the overall care from the dealership are above any other car so far. While the 911 may be one of the best cars, IMHO the F10 M5 is probably THE best car in the world.

I love Porsche's, i will probably go back to a 911 after i sell my Maserati Gran Turismo (which is an entirely other car experience again (good!)) but i will keep my M5 no matter what.

[997usa]

) Truth be told, they solve different things for different people. The 911 was great as a daily driver while my boys were small - now they are nearly too large for the rear seats of the 991 - hence the switch to the Maserati (they have nearly as much space now as in a 750Li)...

The best position to be in is to have an M5 for comfort, relentless acceleration and speed and overall driving pleasure and the 991 for sheer speed and awesomeness....

My 991 was tricked out with all the goodies - PDK, PDCC, Sport Chrono, Sport Exhaust etc etc - heck, even my user name here points to my previous 911, the 997 (which also was a great car, the 997 4S)

M5 Above all - 991 right next to it

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

I think DCT and LC is a huge advantage over manual, there is a quite a gap between 0-60 times when comparing DCT and PDK to 6MT or 7MT. Once we are flying it doesn't matter anymore, but that and his torque will give him easily a 2-3 car length head start.

Oh of course I agree. I was completely kidding.

My point was that the LC sucks. It was one of the big reasons I got tired of the M5. I ha so much power and it was very hard to put it down. My M5 was a DCT and my M6 is as well and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

I think DCT and LC is a huge advantage over manual, there is a quite a gap between 0-60 times when comparing DCT and PDK to 6MT or 7MT. Once we are flying it doesn't matter anymore, but that and his torque will give him easily a 2-3 car length head start.

You are going to be surprised I think. Before I bought my Carrera S a salesman and I took out a C4S and raced it against my M6 cab. From 0-60 P car wins precisely because of the LC and the grip. Slow rolls it is dead even (again-grip and less TC interference), highway rolls (from 3rd gear in M car) the M car IMMEDIATELY pulls about 1-1.5 lengths.

Honestly, it came out MUCH closer than I thought it would have. NO DOUBT the M car is a monster and VERY hard to beat. P car will NEVER take it in a straight line (until you hit the limiter)

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by ColdList

You are going to be surprised I think. Before I bought my Carrera S s salesman and I took out a C4S and raced it against my M6 cab. From 0-60 P car wins precisely because of the LC and the grip. Slow rolls it is dead even (again-grip and less TC interference), highway rolls (from 3rd gear in M car) the M car IMMEDIATELY pulls about 1-1.5 lengths.

Honestly, it came out MUCH closer than I thought it would have. NO DOUBT the M car is a monster and VERY hard to beat. P car will NEVER take it in a straight line (until you hit the limiter)

Yo Cold, whats the latest update on mods? I dont feel like going thru all the posts

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Dude, nobody is trashing the M5. Totally different car then the 911. I don't really get this conversation to be honest. Some people prefer the M5, some the 911. It all depends what you want out of a car, and what you need. Do you want a powerhouse GT for the family, the M5 is the ticket. If you want a small light car to throw around on the track - get the 911. We might as well start comparing station wagons to convertibles.

I know. The comparison is really silly. When I started this thread I basically said how much I was excited with my new P car and how cool it was to have the M car in the garage too. Some people have to get into which is "better". Neither is "better" IMO. They both do certain things "better". And who cares. Fact is that I enjoy feeling like I am in a race car all the time and the M makes me appreciate that about the P car immensely. However, I haven't even touched the M car since I got the P car because I love it so much but I will drive the M and when I do the P car will make me appreciate the raw power of the M and I will LOVE every minute of it!

This is sort of why I found the whole MotorTrend thing so incredibly humorous. They were making such silly comparison. C'mon, a Bentley in a "driver's car"competition with an R8 and a Porsche? Too funny. People get so bent out of shape about this stuff and then everyone has to be "right" so it goes on and on...I have lots of friends on here and I am just showing off my new ride.

P.S. And like I have said on here before: My F150 FX4 is the BEST vehicle that I own. I hop in, have a clear view of the road, park it "to close" to people, get dirt on the outside and trash on the inside, got rubber floor mats, and when I need to switch lanes I just move right over even when the guy next to me doesn't want to let me in-and it is leased so I REALLY don't give a darn!-lol! (and I think it corners as well as my M5 did. It only weighs a few hundred pounds more-scary huh?-hahahahahahahahaha!)

[Rob///M5]

Redacted

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Yo Cold, whats the latest update on mods? I dont feel like going thru all the posts

Hey man, tune installed, H&R installed, Bel STi-R PLUS and LI being installed as we speak and shipping the Fabspeed Race exhaust back today to swap for the X-Pine only and probably Maxflo side mufflers.

Have I told you how RIGHT you were-lol! The car is utterly amazing! I have put 400 miles on it in 5 days (and they are some hard driven ones)

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

Should've gone with the six speed manual.
Couldn't resist.

Nice try! NO WAY! The DCT is sooooooooo good!

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Nice try! NO WAY! The DCT is sooooooooo good!

It's a 7 speed manual.

I would definitely have given it a shot. My guess though is its a rather soft interpretation of a proper 6MT - I have no personal experience to back that up though.

[Rob///M5]

BTW - mike do you feel the stock PDK is as good as the M-DCT? I don't. I only had a dealer test drive of the 991S, but this was one of the first things I noticed. PDK seemed to have far more lag (especially on down shift) than M-DCT. Since you've had more time with it, I'm very interested in your thoughts.

Sounds like the tune enhanced shift speed quite a bit though?

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

You can not blame a guy for trying.

M car = manual.

Dct = ?( computer assist).

I guess you would never own a Ferrari, MC, Lambo if you had the choice. You do know M cars will only be DCT in 2015

[positiveions]

Congrats. Car looks sexy.
I'm contemplating to sell my E90 for 911 S.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

Cold list and bimmer6 are you out there ? I hear crickets. We're have you been the last three days while I have been getting trashed for being happy with the F 10 M5. I guess there are some of us who still enjoy the M5. And this coming from a gentlemen who's owned several porsche's. There must be somthing wrong with the automotive world.

" but I will always keep my M5". Priceless.

I think you're still sleep at the wheel I'm the one who said I love my M5 over, and over. This convo goes back to last May when some board members asked which do you like better. One was Mike (Coldlst) who hated the P-Car now he's in love, and each to his own. There was never an intent to compare, but clearly we all love cars. I'm blessed to have the two we are talking about, and If I had to choose it would be the 991S for my situation. I have others cars I choose not to list so my situations is a little different. I'm one of the few that will have my M5 for many years because I don't flip cars nor lease.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

BTW - mike do you feel the stock PDK is as good as the M-DCT? I don't. I only had a dealer test drive of the 991S, but this was one of the first things I noticed. PDK seemed to have far more lag (especially on down shift) than M-DCT. Since you've had more time with it, I'm very interested in your thoughts.

Sounds like the tune enhanced shift speed quite a bit though?

Actually Rob, I prefer the PDK. When you shift under high RPMs it actually throws you forward. The rev matching up and down is superb.

Yes, I did an ECU and PDK tune. Apparently at high revs the engine is only at approx. 80% throttle power as you shift. With the tune it is up at 100% again. Also, the shift points where if you mash the throttle down and the PDK downshifts itself in manual mode have been changed VERY nicely. It is lightning quick. Also improved throttle response. I have not really noticed much difference here since I only had the car for a couple of days prior to the install of the tune and I thought the throttle was impeccable.

Like I said, and as seems to be the case with many BMW guys who are considering the P car, it takes several drives until you "get" the car. Once you do it is just so much fun. It's the "Torque Juice" still in your blood!-lol

Took the car in for the Bel/LI install today and I went down this long s-curve that I have driven thousands of times near my house and then through a very winding road that has inclines and declines and it was NEVER so much fun before! Nothing I don't love about this car. Of course, I still have some of the Turbo fever too so I would not mind a little extra kick on initial acceleration but as soon as I hit the high revs I am just smiling ear to ear. The total experience in incredible. You are going to LOVE your GT3!

[Vic55]

Those who can have both do, those who want one weigh out their needs. I dont blame anyone for dumping a 991 if they have different needs. Its all opinions but there is alot of positive to be said about this Porsche 991 chassis and its high reving driver involving machine.

I have had faster Pcars than any of my M cars and still choose M. The 991 chassis, steering, suspension, engine, exhaust, etc has revitalized my P car love. The GT3 in the 991 variant is going to formidable to say the least. Oh and its not even offered in a 7 speed.

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Actually Rob, I prefer the PDK. When you shift under high RPMs it actually throws you forward. The rev matching up and down is superb.

E60 M5 SMG does this too - the shifts are very violent - I believe that's due more to the torque curve in the E60 M5 (and possibly 911 - not sure, but since it's also naturally aspirated this is likely) rather than a function of the transmission.

F10 M5 has gobs of torque available in a much broader rev range so when it shifts, you don't get the violent loss of torque (thrown forward) followed by also violent push into back of the seat.

The thing I've been most amazed by is the DCT and the nearly video-game like feeling to clicking through the gears - all the while being jammed so far into your seat that you can barely lean forward against the force.

The DCT shifts so fast the timing is almost imperceptible. Thinking about it, this may also contribute to a reduction in the violence of the shifts - perhaps the sudden loss of torque followed by re-application of torque is reduced due to the quickness of the shift.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

E60 M5 SMG does this too - the shifts are very violent - I believe that's due more to the torque curve in the E60 M5 (and possibly 911 - not sure, but since it's also naturally aspirated this is likely) rather than a function of the transmission.

F10 M5 has gobs of torque available in a much broader rev range so when it shifts, you don't get the violent loss of torque (thrown forward) followed by also violent push into back of the seat.

The thing I've been most amazed by is the DCT and the nearly video-game like feeling to clicking through the gears - all the while being jammed so far into your seat that you can barely lean forward against the force.

The DCT shifts so fast the timing is almost imperceptible. Thinking about it, this may also contribute to a reduction in the violence of the shifts - perhaps the sudden loss of torque followed by re-application of torque is reduced due to the quickness of the shift.

Ummmm you need to drive a PDK. To make a comparison to the SMG is seriously laughable-no offense. You are just misinformed on this one.

It throws you in a good way. There is no similarity to a single clutch in any fashion. The word I should use is it "pushes" the car forward. This is because of the SUPERIOR dual clutch rev matching-better than the DCT IMO. It is praised as the most highly-sophisticated dual clutch transmission in the world. It is another integral part of the connected driving experience of the Porsche.

And the reason for the non-violent shifts in the DCT is simple as well-it is a dual clutch that rev matches extremely well also. Speed and smoothness are the characteristics intended to be delivered by dual clutch transmissions.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Ummmm you need to drive a PDK. To make a comparison to the SMG is seriously laughable-no offense. You are just misinformed on this one.

It throws you in a good way. There is no similarity to a single clutch in any fashion. The word I should use is it "pushes" the car forward. This is because of the SUPERIOR dual clutch rev matching-better than the DCT IMO. It is praised as the most highly-sophisticated dual clutch transmission in the world. It is another integral part of the connected driving experience of the Porsche.

And the reason for the non-violent shifts in the DCT is simple as well-it is a dual clutch that rev matches extremely well also. Speed and smoothness are the characteristics intended to be delivered by dual clutch transmissions.

As an owner of both, I concur--- its in the software of the PDK vs the DCT.

[Simon H]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Ummmm you need to drive a PDK. To make a comparison to the SMG is seriously laughable-no offense. You are just misinformed on this one.

It throws you in a good way. There is no similarity to a single clutch in any fashion. The word I should use is it "pushes" the car forward. This is because of the SUPERIOR dual clutch rev matching-better than the DCT IMO. It is praised as the most highly-sophisticated dual clutch transmission in the world. It is another integral part of the connected driving experience of the Porsche.

And the reason for the non-violent shifts in the DCT is simple as well-it is a dual clutch that rev matches extremely well also. Speed and smoothness are the characteristics intended to be delivered by dual clutch transmissions.

I have to agree with you Mike, regarding the SMG V DCT statement. Just by its very mechanical being, the DCT is just so far ahead. The SMG, is an automated manual, that just happens to let you flat shift, but takes longer to get the change done, and is more clunky, than the DCT, which is a double clutch transmission, capable of seamless, uninterrupted power and torque by its design and build. Ive been reading this thread, with great interest, and like most people, i agree that these two cars serve different purposes, and fulfill different needs. I do think, that when the new 991 Turbo/S arrives, you will be first in the que for one of those, as you seem like a well healed guy, and why will you buy one of these ?, because it will kill everything, with monster torque.