M5 / M6 Oil Pump Recall FAQ and Affected VIN List

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by 1&done

And BMW still remains the most profitable car company...?

Thought that was Porsche by a lot.

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by SlammedM6

Car was 125 brand new if I remember correctly. That's a pretty serious loss of value in just 3 years....over 50% on both those examples I gave.

So to say they hold their value in any shape, way or form is outright crazy and your dreaming!!

It's unrealistic to base a loss assessment on MSRP. You would be more accurate using what you pay for the car which, if you're an adept buyer, is closer to invoice, maybe even below invoice, price.

[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by fuddman

It's unrealistic to base a loss assessment on MSRP. You would be more accurate using what you pay for the car which, if you're an adept buyer, is closer to invoice, maybe even below invoice, price.

BMW and most other auto makers have a 8-9% profit in their cars. So even if they discounted 10% (which they wouldn't) the original buyer still paid $112 500.

Sorry, but your argument has no strength. Also, if you want to get technical, I didn't buy it from the original owner but instead a dealership he traded it into. So he likely traded it in for approx $55000. Still a lose of over 50%.

No matter how you cut it, you buy these cars knowing that in 3 years it is worth half of what it was new.

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by SlammedM6

No matter how you cut it, you buy these cars knowing that in 3 years it is worth half of what it was new.

Euro invoice for 2013 M5 starts at 79k. I kinda doubt you'd get that car for 40k in 3 years.

[m balla]

I am not knocking P cars I think they are fun and I love their manual transmissions.

I really think BMW engineers call for parts that have extremely precise tolerances and this could mean the slightest error could ruin a particular batch. How often are manufacturers calibrating and measuring their equipment? I really think this is the reason we are seeing bad hpfp, bad injectors and now bad oil pumps.

Can anyone verify that the oil pump is an electronic volumetric flow controlled (mapping) reciprocating slide valve similar to the one in the N63? Is this is the case as the exact tolerances weren't met on a batch then there you go... Maybe the supplier wasn't aware. Or the beast has so much demand that it separate the shaft from the rotor.In the pump on that batch.

So much for efficient dynamics... Bring back the S65 then (and S85)... It's like how much better gobain is over pilkington

[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by fuddman

Euro invoice for 2013 M5 starts at 79k. I kinda doubt you'd get that car for 40k in 3 years.

Umm...that's euro invoice ! How many people actually paid that? And how many people buy a basic M5?

I'm not going to argue with you, even the BMW salesman who I spoke to about the F10 M5 didn't argue with me or defend his brand when instated my opinion and previous experience with the resale of BMWs and more specifically M cars.

If you need further proof of that, just like others stated in this thread, look at the residuals that BMW gave the M5.

And FYI, 2009-2010 M5 with average miles sells for between 55-65k on autotrader... You can imagine where Manheim prices are.

Oh ya...I'm not knocking the F10 M5, as I am planning on picking one up next year

[jadnashuanh]

Originally Posted by roadmax

BMW discovered this problem from quality control, how could they discover if the cars were already delivered and why they did not discover before releasing the cars.

Why are they not telling the truth: after customer complains that their m5 & M6 engines are no longer running we located the problem.

In order to prevent more engine replacements we beg our customers not drive until further notice.

It appears that new M5 & M6 owners are the latest BMW test drivers, for free.
Actually they are paying BMW for this.

The vendor was originally qualified to produce parts per specs. Something happened and they messed up - maybe a new process, a machine out of spec, a new operator...we'll probably never know.

But, both the vendor and BMW tend to spot check items out of a batch. This takes some time, and keep in mind that with JIT production, there aren't a lot of parts just sitting around - BMW tells the vendor how many it needs probably only a week or maybe a little more in advance. The problem was found. Repair parts are generally stocked at anticipated failure rate volumes...there are NOT a lot of them sitting around anywhere on a shelf to supply the replacement en mass of lots of these things, they have to be made. My guess is that this item is likely only stocked at the 10-item level in the whole USA...I doubt it is a normally stocked part in a dealer's shelf and they'd order it from BMW should a non-recall failure pop up and probably get it the next day, if not earlier.

An oil pump failure has nothing to do with the fact the engine has a turbocharger...any high performance engine will be severely damaged if run without oil pressure...with a turbo, there are just more parts to fail IF it happens.

So, if the engine's oil pump has not triggered a low-pressure warning, and you don't drive it, it should be fine.

Not sure on the M, but the 'normal' vehicles don't have any special run-in oil in them. I did read that the M's call for an oil service earlier than others initially, but I don't think that is because the oil is special (it DOES have a different spec than that called for in the 'normal' BMW engines) for break-in. I think that it is because M owners tend to drive them harder, and they have higher output which can push junk into the crankcase faster until everything gets seated well. SO, as a precaution, an earlier oil change is prudent.

Again, if you've not experienced a low oil pressure warning, the engine is fine. After the new oil pump is installed, it should remain fine. There's no way that each part gets torn apart again and checked. Out of that batch, we'll probably never know how many of those parts would actually fail, but they're being prudent, having identified the batch where the error occurred.

Parts are made by humans, and we're not perfect. It's good that it was found fast before there were many failures. I'd be annoyed if it were my vehicle, but s*** happens, live with it. Hopefully, your dealer can provide you with needed transport in the interim...life goes on.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

The vendor was originally qualified to produce parts per specs. Something happened and they messed up - maybe a new process, a machine out of spec, a new operator...we'll probably never know.

But, both the vendor and BMW tend to spot check items out of a batch. This takes some time, and keep in mind that with JIT production, there aren't a lot of parts just sitting around - BMW tells the vendor how many it needs probably only a week or maybe a little more in advance. The problem was found. Repair parts are generally stocked at anticipated failure rate volumes...there are NOT a lot of them sitting around anywhere on a shelf to supply the replacement en mass of lots of these things, they have to be made. My guess is that this item is likely only stocked at the 10-item level in the whole USA...I doubt it is a normally stocked part in a dealer's shelf and they'd order it from BMW should a non-recall failure pop up and probably get it the next day, if not earlier.

An oil pump failure has nothing to do with the fact the engine has a turbocharger...any high performance engine will be severely damaged if run without oil pressure...with a turbo, there are just more parts to fail IF it happens.

So, if the engine's oil pump has not triggered a low-pressure warning, and you don't drive it, it should be fine.

Not sure on the M, but the 'normal' vehicles don't have any special run-in oil in them. I did read that the M's call for an oil service earlier than others initially, but I don't think that is because the oil is special (it DOES have a different spec than that called for in the 'normal' BMW engines) for break-in. I think that it is because M owners tend to drive them harder, and they have higher output which can push junk into the crankcase faster until everything gets seated well. SO, as a precaution, an earlier oil change is prudent.

Again, if you've not experienced a low oil pressure warning, the engine is fine. After the new oil pump is installed, it should remain fine. There's no way that each part gets torn apart again and checked. Out of that batch, we'll probably never know how many of those parts would actually fail, but they're being prudent, having identified the batch where the error occurred.

Parts are made by humans, and we're not perfect. It's good that it was found fast before there were many failures. I'd be annoyed if it were my vehicle, but s*** happens, live with it. Hopefully, your dealer can provide you with needed transport in the interim...life goes on.

Spot on, and now the hype should end here well said!

[m balla]

I always wondered why certain customers got the kosher loaners... sometimes I have received ones that the service agents got to drive... like one time the guys was you think the m3 is fast... check on a 335 with a manual... dork

I think it goes since the m5 is a 5 series you should get something like that or better ... like a 6 series loaner or a demo or something like that... but in this case they should pay for your gas too...

I think BMW should pay for the loaners and gas for the individuals affected... only if they had starbucks I would ask for a coffee card

[mycooltoast]

So basically I took delivery of my m6 coupe aug 28 leaving me to use the car for 25 days and 800 mi do u think its reasonable for a car at this price to just ask for a replacement? i mean bmw is taking the hit of this right not the dealership so maybe will they will be willing to deal?

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by mycooltoast

So basically I took delivery of my m6 coupe aug 28 leaving me to use the car for 25 days and 800 mi do u think its reasonable for a car at this price to just ask for a replacement? i mean bmw is taking the hit of this right not the dealership so maybe will they will be willing to deal?

If the car is out of service for 30 days per most states lemon law regulations than yes. It's a recall to avoid the car being damaged. Their has been only one reported failure which was Berry on his ED trip. Most of us drove our cars over 2k miles no issues in Europe. Honestly this is really being over blown it's a bad oil pump which is easily replaced no way BMW is going eat close to 1k cars for a replacement part. Not dismissing your feelings, but it's a are everyone loved a week ago, now it's a lemon in some people's mind on this board. Unreal

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by fuddman

Euro invoice for 2013 M5 starts at 79k. I kinda doubt you'd get that car for 40k in 3 years.

Depends.
A friend of mine paid $45K for an '08 in 2010.
About 50% of what the original owner paid.
I have seen '07 M5's here in California for low $30k's

[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

Depends.
A friend of mine paid $45K for an '08 in 2010.
About 50% of what the original owner paid.
I have seen '07 M5's here in California for low $30k's

Yup
Thanks
Exactly as I said....

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by m balla

I always wondered why certain customers got the kosher loaners... sometimes I have received ones that the service agents got to drive... like one time the guys was you think the m3 is fast... check on a 335 with a manual... dork

I think it goes since the m5 is a 5 series you should get something like that or better ... like a 6 series loaner or a demo or something like that... but in this case they should pay for your gas too...

I think BMW should pay for the loaners and gas for the individuals affected... only if they had starbucks I would ask for a coffee card

Why pay your gas? Are you not already paying gas to drive the m?

[dr.skp.ortho]

Been calling the local dealers here in Australia and spoke to my salesman and service dept too. No news from BMW Australia about this recall and they said they have had no communication on this from BMW AG Germany.

If its the oil pump i wonder why only US cars have this issue...the oil pump should be the same regardless of country of destination?

[dutycalls]

Originally Posted by dr.skp.ortho

Been calling the local dealers here in Australia and spoke to my salesman and service dept too. No news from BMW Australia about this recall and they said they have had no communication on this from BMW AG Germany.

If its the oil pump i wonder why only US cars have this issue...the oil pump should be the same regardless of country of destination?

Not only US cars. My yet to be delivered UK M6 coupe is affected. Dealers received notification in the UK on Friday afternoon, about the same time news was breaking in the US.

Not sure if BMW is prioritising markets by the most numbers cars affected there? The US, Germany and the UK are BMW's top three markets currently. (No doubt China will be in there soon).

[ORIGIN M.]

You must be referring to Volkswagen Group.

They own Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Porsche, Seat, Skoda, Volkswagen, Ducati, MAN, Volkswagen Nutzfahrzeuge, Volkswagen Financial Services AG, Audi Financial Services, AND last but not least,,, Porsche Financial Services.

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Thought that was Porsche by a lot.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

You must be referring to Volkswagen Group.

They own Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Porsche, Seat, Skoda, Volkswagen, Ducati, MAN, Volkswagen Nutzfahrzeuge, Volkswagen Financial Services AG, Audi Financial Services, AND last but not least,,, Porsche Financial Services.

Exactly

[jmh]

Originally Posted by dr.skp.ortho

Been calling the local dealers here in Australia and spoke to my salesman and service dept too. No news from BMW Australia about this recall and they said they have had no communication on this from BMW AG Germany.

If its the oil pump i wonder why only US cars have this issue...the oil pump should be the same regardless of country of destination?

you're upside down so likely are using a different oil pump ...




It is very likely your car has either a pump out of a "good" batch or was built before the "bad" batch showed up at the factory (given you're in OZ I'd assume your production date is a quite a way back compared to European/US markets (due to distance/travel))

[bobblehead]

Canada vehicles are also affected, meaning it's not just North America, looks like to be worldwide.

I just got off the phone with my dealer confirming my mid July 2012 build is alright. However, the late July build onwards are on the recall list. I was told my car just made it thru with the non-defective oil pump.

My VIN # C277279X

[racer10]

Well mine is being picked up today . I hope they take good care of it while we are all waiting for parts.

[cmhsam]

Originally Posted by racer10

Well mine is being picked up today . I hope they take good care of it while we are all waiting for parts.

Where in OH are you?