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      05-20-2022, 03:54 PM   #111
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Really good video about porpoising from an ex mercedes f1 aerodynamacist:

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      05-20-2022, 04:30 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
MAX vs Hamilton (2021)

THE MOVIE !

''Is he right behind me...with new tyres''?
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      05-20-2022, 05:45 PM   #113
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Here is a video for you Max fans and anyone interested in how Max has progressed.

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      05-20-2022, 07:11 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
seems like Mercs might catching the train before season flies off from them.. thats awesome!
That is what I thought last race weekend, in Miami Merc was only down 0.07sec in FP1 and 0.24sec in FP2.

Then race comes along, they are still down well over a 1sec in race pace and qualified behind one of the Alfa's.
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      05-20-2022, 08:07 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
That is what I thought last race weekend, in Miami Merc was only down 0.07sec in FP1 and 0.24sec in FP2.

Then race comes along, they are still down well over a 1sec in race pace and qualified behind one of the Alfa's.
That's because they didn't have any porposing solving upgrades, what you saw there was a lucky setup and the minor mods they did bring actually somewhat calming down the porpoising in an extremely narrow operating window.


This time they actually brought a new floor with a bunch of new features to target porpoising. There are images of them running effectively the lowest ride height possible (the tea tray is almost scraping the ground) and there is zero porpoising. What little porpoising they do have is low in amplitude and very gentle, as judged by the on board and out board analysis on F1 technical (you can barely see it bounce and the only way you can see it is to slow the video down 4x).


So porpoising seems to be resolved on the Merc and they are back in the fight, so the zero pods aren't stupid after all. It's almost like one cannot judge a car concept without seeing the complex CFD data...


However, they will be close but likely they won't be winning just yet because I'm not sure their long run pace is strong enough. Data today shows they have a faster long run than Ferrari but slower than redbull, but free practice isn't too accurate we shall see Sunday. They should make more gains in the next few races as they shed more weight and bring more upgrades, and of course as redbull and Ferrari are forced to slow down developments because of the cost cap (redbull is probably close to exhausting their budget as they have brought new parts every race).
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      05-20-2022, 08:24 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
That is what I thought last race weekend, in Miami Merc was only down 0.07sec in FP1 and 0.24sec in FP2.

Then race comes along, they are still down well over a 1sec in race pace and qualified behind one of the Alfa's.
That's because they didn't have any porposing solving upgrades, what you saw there was a lucky setup and the minor mods they did bring actually somewhat calming down the porpoising in an extremely narrow operating window.


This time they actually brought a new floor with a bunch of new features to target porpoising. There are images of them running effectively the lowest ride height possible (the tea tray is almost scraping the ground) and there is zero porpoising. What little porpoising they do have is low in amplitude and very gentle, as judged by the on board and out board analysis on F1 technical (you can barely see it bounce and the only way you can see it is to slow the video down 4x).


So porpoising seems to be resolved on the Merc and they are back in the fight, so the zero pods aren't stupid after all. It's almost like one cannot judge a car concept without seeing the complex CFD data...


However, they will be close but likely they won't be winning just yet because I'm not sure their long run pace is strong enough. Data today shows they have a faster long run than Ferrari but slower than redbull, but free practice isn't too accurate we shall see Sunday. They should make more gains in the next few races as they shed more weight and bring more upgrades, and of course as redbull and Ferrari are forced to slow down developments because of the cost cap (redbull is probably close to exhausting their budget as they have brought new parts every race).
With the chassis and aero solved, at least for this weekend, it will be interesting to see what Mercedes does with the PU. As I said earlier in the season, I don't think Mercedes has shown what the engine can do at it la full potential. Now that they have a better working car, perhaps we might see Mercedes tweak the PU now and try to claw back into the championship race.
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      05-20-2022, 08:40 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
With the chassis and aero solved, at least for this weekend, it will be interesting to see what Mercedes does with the PU. As I said earlier in the season, I don't think Mercedes has shown what the engine can do at it la full potential. Now that they have a better working car, perhaps we might see Mercedes tweak the PU now and try to claw back into the championship race.
I think they're still trying to setup the car to test how much more performance they can squeeze out of it. Ride height doesn't appear to be the issue anymore because the tea tray is literally about to scrape the tarmac. But there should now be a massive release of parts for Mercedes because they have appeared to fix the porpoising and now can release some of their planned upgrades. Maybe more floor upgrades to come in order to get more pace I really don't know, but there is always work to be done till all the porpoising is completely gone.


In terms of the engine I'm curious too, I have heard they have tuned some things to get some gains here and there. But I don't think they were holding back early on, and the only time we might see some real gains in engine performance is when they release their electrical upgrades.
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      05-20-2022, 08:45 PM   #118
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Here are images of the Mercs ride height, as you can see they have gotten it to ride really really low now (essentially touching the track, so that should be the optimal ride height) without porpoising issues.






I suspect them to be more competitive this weekend but I'm not sure a win is in the books just yet, they are still behind when it comes to weight and minor upgrades as a whole.
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      05-20-2022, 09:36 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
That's because they didn't have any porposing solving upgrades, what you saw there was a lucky setup and the minor mods they did bring actually somewhat calming down the porpoising in an extremely narrow operating window.


This time they actually brought a new floor with a bunch of new features to target porpoising. There are images of them running effectively the lowest ride height possible (the tea tray is almost scraping the ground) and there is zero porpoising. What little porpoising they do have is low in amplitude and very gentle, as judged by the on board and out board analysis on F1 technical (you can barely see it bounce and the only way you can see it is to slow the video down 4x).


So porpoising seems to be resolved on the Merc and they are back in the fight, so the zero pods aren't stupid after all. It's almost like one cannot judge a car concept without seeing the complex CFD data...


However, they will be close but likely they won't be winning just yet because I'm not sure their long run pace is strong enough. Data today shows they have a faster long run than Ferrari but slower than redbull, but free practice isn't too accurate we shall see Sunday. They should make more gains in the next few races as they shed more weight and bring more upgrades, and of course as redbull and Ferrari are forced to slow down developments because of the cost cap (redbull is probably close to exhausting their budget as they have brought new parts every race).
I hope you are right. I want to see Russ win some races.
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      05-20-2022, 09:49 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
I hope you are right. I want to see Russ win some races.
In terms of the update I am confident that this time merc has specifically introduced upgrades to counter porpoising because we have the FIA show and tell to confirm the images we have seen.

In terms of if mercedes is going to win soon I have no clue what their true pace will be, im confident the gap to the top 2 will be closed down alot but if they have enough pace to win at this stage i am unsure. Maybe in the next few races when they drop more weight and bring more parts.


I'd like to see George win some too, it would be nice especially after how much he has suffered with williams over these past few years.
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      05-21-2022, 01:36 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
There's more for Mercedes (STATUS LIVE-Update)

Both Mercedes drivers got a 'new :
1- PU
2- MGU-H
3- MGU-K
4- Exhaust
5- Turbo
Throwing a lot of the chips on one colour in Spain I see with yet another new floor the Merc appears more stable now on a low down setting, at the rear at least but as the race fuel load comes down it will rise and I predict will start to fade after halfway.
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      05-21-2022, 03:14 AM   #122
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I wonder if Mercedes (and the other teams) will be slowly solving the porpoising problem or if it'll be a sudden change, that they suddenly understand how to solve it.
In the end I think all the teams will solve it, it's more a question of when.

And I'm eager to see if that aston martin RB copy also now will behave like the RB car.
That RB aero guy started at Aston martin in april, so 1,5 months to completely redesign that car and build the parts.

qualifying will be interesting today.
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      05-21-2022, 03:24 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
I wonder if Mercedes (and the other teams) will be slowly solving the porpoising problem or if it'll be a sudden change, that they suddenly understand how to solve it.
In the end I think all the teams will solve it, it's more a question of when.

And I'm eager to see if that aston martin RB copy also now will behave like the RB car.
That RB aero guy started at Aston martin in april, so 1,5 months to completely redesign that car and build the parts.

qualifying will be interesting today.
It probably on a per car basis, some cars are easy to solve, some might not be. But probably porposing will all be solved at some point, it might be late into next season for some teams with lesser resources.

But in terms of progression it'll likely be slow, correlation is never perfect and there will always be small hiccups that need to be ironed out. Even redbull on occasion bounces, and the w13 with extensive research on porpoising bounces very slightly too. So there's always a chance it might never 100% go away.


If you watch Kyle's video on it there are so many aero and mechanical factors to it, so there could always be a potential for it to be triggered - say a heavy bump causing hysteresis
between the suspension and aero parts.
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      05-21-2022, 03:35 AM   #124
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Latest that I read is that RBR still lead in the long term analysis and a further 4 kilo reduction in weight for Barcelona are small updates that have made Marko and Horner happy,the minimum weight of 798 kilos is set to be reached by the time of the summer break.
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      05-21-2022, 03:50 AM   #125
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Even redbull on occasion bounces, and the w13 with extensive research on porpoising bounces very slightly too. So there's always a chance it might never 100% go away.

.
I ment it as that it's considered a big problem.
Like the RB guys hardly complain about it/ever mention it in interviews, wheras the merc guys mention it in pretty much every interview as being their main problem.
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      05-21-2022, 04:51 AM   #126
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I ment it as that it's considered a big problem.
Like the RB guys hardly complain about it/ever mention it in interviews, wheras the merc guys mention it in pretty much every interview as being their main problem.
Well it depends on when the porpoising occurs and how bad, RB doesn't really have porpoising so they don't complain, mercedes had it the worst where it was affecting performance so they're going to complain alot, ferrari just has it to where it affect driver comfort so the complaining will be intermediate.

So it depends on how a team is affected, but regardless it will be a long term problem because having your head shaking like that isn't good for the brain long term and it does rob performance slightly on the straights. So im sure teams will keep trying to fix it, it won't be easy but it will probably be doable.
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      05-21-2022, 05:31 AM   #127
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Yes, except he was on gardening leave until April. Aston claims to have this concept in the wind tunnel last November.

Expecting a new Stroll Sr. video any moment.

liever goed gekopieerd dan slecht bedacht.
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      05-21-2022, 06:14 AM   #128
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Something happened to Gasly's alpha tauri:


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      05-21-2022, 06:56 AM   #129
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Overheated PU on 10 car.
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      05-21-2022, 07:16 AM   #130
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Same situation different day, in a flash Max just a whisker behind Chas after FP3, temps are up to 32C there just as hot as it was in Miami.
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      05-21-2022, 07:57 AM   #131
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''Is he right behind me...with new tyres''?
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      05-21-2022, 08:15 AM   #132
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On Gasly's car a heat shield moved and the motor overheated.
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