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      04-20-2012, 09:11 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsNumptyBoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf
7 pages and no one said it...


"That'll buff right out".

Glad to see these people are alive and hope they are well. To those who decry this type of behavior on the autobahn, get off it. Those types of speed happens every day over there. It's your choice to do so when you are in an unrestricted zone. Suppose the road was clear and conditions were good but some asshat decided to pull over without looking? clearly the guy had his lights on to warn other drivers.

Accidents happen at the speed limit, even when there isn't one.
Thankfully, worldwide without exception, the legal position is diametrically opposed to yours!!!

Firstly, it's NOT the Green Hell......if you want true "participation by consent, with no speed restrictions" then go there FFS!!!
This is a public highway, where the over riding factors, irrespective of posted limits, is the requirement to uphold a driving standard that shows a duty of care to ALL users. Driving, on any public highway, is NOT a consent based sport!!

This tool approached a clearly visible on slip, an "actual danger" in advanced driving terminology, and predictably, an emerging car joined the main carriageway. It is highly probable that the emerging car would have difficulty seeing the oncoming M5, and YES, may be displayed an element of neglect or less than ideal observational standards.......BUT, the tool in the M5 approach this hazard at V-Max......that being 280 feet per second!!!! That's 280 FEET PER SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!
With an average reaction time of AT LEAST 1.5 seconds (and on occasion as much as 3) that's 420 to simply PERCEIVE the emerging car before inputting any braking or steering!!!

At the very LEAST, there was a predictable 100mph differential between the M5 and any vehicle that might emerge.....more so if it were to be a heavy goods vehicle or a 1.6l family box!!

I conduct the forensic reconstruction of fatal collisions for a living.....and this guy is wholly culpable for his injuries and those of his passengers......and had anybody died then he would also be facing a stint in a very small room with bunk beds!!

Take it to the track people.........
Also very true. Ive hit 170 indicated in my car but only for a very short period of time and with no cars in sight. Coming home from work I could cruise at 110 to 120 pretty easily due to not much traffic on A70, but even then I had to be very careful of the on/off ramps. I wish them a speedy recovery, but at those speeds on a public highway.. You are being reckless.
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      04-20-2012, 10:41 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by kalamokid View Post
Anyone question why there is an m3 and an m6 at the crash site? Maybe they were racing?
No, his sons were following him. Says right there in the article.
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      04-20-2012, 11:40 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franken///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsweet
they were lucky the car did not hit any other cars or truck after the initial hit which he probably almost avoided. That way it could loose all that kinetic energy progressively. for 300km/h that car held better than one would imagine. Hope they are lucky with their injuries recovery too.

Let's not compare with the usa. having experienced both places over many long years i would say that if public driving was held to europeans standards 70% of people in the US would carpool because they could never pass a driving test even after 10 times. it would be impossible to have a no-limit highway stretch here because most drivers really don't know how to drive safely. You can only know this after you experience the level of discipline that is expected on European roads.
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      04-21-2012, 02:37 AM   #180
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Unhappy

I think by reading some of the comments here that some people remained stucked in the Wild West era where whoever had the biggest made the law. You guys should pay attention to your words and give a better image of a BMW driver / owner !

I can't believe that some of you charge the driver that jumped into of beeing responsible for this accident. Did you know that, in Germany, a driver who puts his turn signal on to change lanes has the priority over those coming behind ? German drivers expect from others comming faster from behind to slow down to let them overpass. That's how it works there. You'd be surprised. Then surely you'd get used to and rember how morron you had been flashing lights and eating the rear bumper of the car driving in front of you.

I wouldn't even call this an *accident*.

If this driver can open his eyes this morning on an hospital bed, HE KNOWS he's been an idiot. He is certainly remorseful thinking he probably ruined his life plus the life of a 20 yo boy and probably also ruined the lives of his wife, his children and others.

It is crazy to have an 'expected to be' mature 60 yo man have a 20 yo boy involved in such a risky situation.

Finally get to know that the German Police condemns those drivers who do not adapt their speed to road conditions, and that, even on the portions of highway where no speed limit applies.

The driver of the M5 may still be prosecuted for failing to comply with this obligation even if no other cars were involved in the accident. It's also unlikely that the insurance will cover any damages given how foolish and immoral this driver was.

That said, I still hope these people won't live the rest of their days in wheelchairs and they won't suffer for too long. May God help them feel better.

V1.
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      04-21-2012, 05:14 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VodkaOne View Post
German drivers expect from others comming faster from behind to slow down to let them overpass. That's how it works there.
That's how it works in many countries! But you change the lane when you are sure that the driver from behind understood your intention and very often he gives you a flash to just change it (this gives the driver from the right lane an extra confirmation) together with the braking near his back. At least I'm doing this way and never had problems on motorway.
Your comment is somehow strange in some paragraphs
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      04-21-2012, 05:19 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by RussRamz View Post
+1
Finally! A comment with sense.
Rolf,

While I appreciate your concern for American Jack-assery on public roads, you must concede driving between the two cultures is very different. In Germany--there are rules and they are (for the most part) followed. In the USA, road rules are (for the most part) ignored.

I comfortably drove my M6 at speeds exceeding 280 km/hr with my young daughter reading her Harry Potter books in the right passenger seat without incident. No big deal... It's a matter of jack=assery driving or driving like a shit-tard. Love it or leave it You will have to pry the autobahn from the cold dead fingers of every German as a .45 from a Texan.
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      04-21-2012, 08:09 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Flash237
How much for the left headlight shipped to 33176?





jk lol glad everyone came out alive... looks like a nasty wreck!
That's funny. I'm glad the dog is ok.
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      04-21-2012, 09:52 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca
That's how it works in many countries! But you change the lane when you are sure that the driver from behind understood your intention and very often he gives you a flash to just change it (this gives the driver from the right lane an extra confirmation) together with the braking near his back. At least I'm doing this way and never had problems on motorway.
Your comment is somehow strange in some paragraphs
It's obvious you can make up a quick arrangement in the mirror with the idiot behind you coming at 200mph !

None of you thought that could have been a 80 yo Miss Daisy coming on the highway ? Come on, as long as there'll be more roads than cars, roads will still need to be SHARED...
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      04-21-2012, 10:58 AM   #185
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...anyone have an update on the driver and others? ~Frost
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      04-21-2012, 12:29 PM   #186
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Biased reporting. This is M5 guy's fault. Money can buy u M5 but not common sense. It's great that everyone survived.
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      04-21-2012, 01:30 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
That's how it works in many countries! But you change the lane when you are sure that the driver from behind understood your intention and very often he gives you a flash to just change it (this gives the driver from the right lane an extra confirmation) together with the braking near his back. At least I'm doing this way and never had problems on motorway.
Your comment is somehow strange in some paragraphs
Agreed 100%.
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      04-21-2012, 03:28 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Cuz5150 View Post
Too much power for the driver..............We will see more of these accidents, im sure.
Yes we will.

Darwin has a most interesting way of working these kinds of folks out of the gene pool.
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      04-21-2012, 03:34 PM   #189
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yikes!
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      04-21-2012, 03:51 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveManM3 View Post
Yes we will.

Darwin has a most interesting way of working these kinds of folks out of the gene pool.
Survival of the fastest?
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      04-21-2012, 03:51 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsNumptyBoy View Post
Thankfully, worldwide without exception, the legal position is diametrically opposed to yours!!!

Firstly, it's NOT the Green Hell......if you want true "participation by consent, with no speed restrictions" then go there FFS!!!
This is a public highway, where the over riding factors, irrespective of posted limits, is the requirement to uphold a driving standard that shows a duty of care to ALL users. Driving, on any public highway, is NOT a consent based sport!!

This tool approached a clearly visible on slip, an "actual danger" in advanced driving terminology, and predictably, an emerging car joined the main carriageway. It is highly probable that the emerging car would have difficulty seeing the oncoming M5, and YES, may be displayed an element of neglect or less than ideal observational standards.......BUT, the tool in the M5 approach this hazard at V-Max......that being 280 feet per second!!!! That's 280 FEET PER SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!
With an average reaction time of AT LEAST 1.5 seconds (and on occasion as much as 3) that's 420 to simply PERCEIVE the emerging car before inputting any braking or steering!!!

At the very LEAST, there was a predictable 100mph differential between the M5 and any vehicle that might emerge.....more so if it were to be a heavy goods vehicle or a 1.6l family box!!

I conduct the forensic reconstruction of fatal collisions for a living.....and this guy is wholly culpable for his injuries and those of his passengers......and had anybody died then he would also be facing a stint in a very small room with bunk beds!!

Take it to the track people.........
Boo hoo.

I'm glad you do your job, and thank you for doing it. I'm not in the least advocating reckless driving. Yes, I have driven on the autobahn multiple times, and there are times to VMax and times most definitely to not. I'm an engineer who understands everything you say. And I, for one, am glad that this road is still unrestricted. Sorry, but legislation does not guarantee security. You can't legislate stupid, it will happen no matter what the law is. The man who had this accident was not breaking the law, except the law of common sense.


Just because there are laws restricting such behavior doesn't mean there won't be some idiot who tries to do it when it's illegal.

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      04-21-2012, 03:53 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussRamz View Post
Rolf,

While I appreciate your concern for American Jack-assery on public roads, you must concede driving between the two cultures is very different. In Germany--there are rules and they are (for the most part) followed. In the USA, road rules are (for the most part) ignored.

I comfortably drove my M6 at speeds exceeding 280 km/hr with my young daughter reading her Harry Potter books in the right passenger seat without incident. No big deal... It's a matter of jack=assery driving or driving like a shit-tard. Love it or leave it You will have to pry the autobahn from the cold dead fingers of every German as a .45 from a Texan.
Thank you.

Jack asses are everywhere, no matter what the speed limit.

What's more dangerous, driving 150 plus where it's legal and people are well trained, or the asshat who was going 30 in the Home Depot parking lot where I was this morning, that was crowded with shoppers and cars?
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      04-21-2012, 03:56 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VodkaOne View Post
I think by reading some of the comments here that some people remained stucked in the Wild West era where whoever had the biggest made the law. You guys should pay attention to your words and give a better image of a BMW driver / owner !

I can't believe that some of you charge the driver that jumped into of beeing responsible for this accident. Did you know that, in Germany, a driver who puts his turn signal on to change lanes has the priority over those coming behind ? German drivers expect from others comming faster from behind to slow down to let them overpass. That's how it works there. You'd be surprised. Then surely you'd get used to and rember how morron you had been flashing lights and eating the rear bumper of the car driving in front of you.

I wouldn't even call this an *accident*.

If this driver can open his eyes this morning on an hospital bed, HE KNOWS he's been an idiot. He is certainly remorseful thinking he probably ruined his life plus the life of a 20 yo boy and probably also ruined the lives of his wife, his children and others.

It is crazy to have an 'expected to be' mature 60 yo man have a 20 yo boy involved in such a risky situation.

Finally get to know that the German Police condemns those drivers who do not adapt their speed to road conditions, and that, even on the portions of highway where no speed limit applies.

The driver of the M5 may still be prosecuted for failing to comply with this obligation even if no other cars were involved in the accident. It's also unlikely that the insurance will cover any damages given how foolish and immoral this driver was.

That said, I still hope these people won't live the rest of their days in wheelchairs and they won't suffer for too long. May God help them feel better.

V1.
One REALLY big problem with your assertion is that the "innocent" driver who merged unsafely and caused the accident LEFT THE SCENE of an accident. Even if an accident is not your fault, you CANNOT LEAVE.

Also, even though a car changing lanes MIGHT have "priority", there is ALWAYS the RESPONSIBILITY to make the lane change safely. You CANNOT merge over at even a 20 MPH differential of speed with an unreasonable distance between the vehicles.

That is why there are exceptions to the rule that the car that rear ends another vehicle is at fault. If there was a recent lane change, etc., the vehicle in front CAN be 100% responsible for the accident.
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      04-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #194
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If you do 186 mph on the AutoBahn, you take a calculated risk.
If things go wrong you probably end up dead.

A few years ago I was travelling at 140 mph. All of a sudden there was a stalled car in the left lane. Scared the shit out of me. There was almost no time to react.

Btw: how many drivers actually practice emergency stops at a regular basis? I bet this particular driver never did it, but he still thought 186 mph was a good idea.
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      04-21-2012, 04:32 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motohip
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalamokid View Post
Anyone question why there is an m3 and an m6 at the crash site? Maybe they were racing?
No, his sons were following him. Says right there in the article.
People just don't read. It's clear as day right in the first post. It was his sons.
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      04-21-2012, 04:58 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsNumptyBoy View Post
Thankfully, worldwide without exception, the legal position is diametrically opposed to yours!!!

Firstly, it's NOT the Green Hell......if you want true "participation by consent, with no speed restrictions" then go there FFS!!!
This is a public highway, where the over riding factors, irrespective of posted limits, is the requirement to uphold a driving standard that shows a duty of care to ALL users. Driving, on any public highway, is NOT a consent based sport!!

This tool approached a clearly visible on slip, an "actual danger" in advanced driving terminology, and predictably, an emerging car joined the main carriageway. It is highly probable that the emerging car would have difficulty seeing the oncoming M5, and YES, may be displayed an element of neglect or less than ideal observational standards.......BUT, the tool in the M5 approach this hazard at V-Max......that being 280 feet per second!!!! That's 280 FEET PER SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!
With an average reaction time of AT LEAST 1.5 seconds (and on occasion as much as 3) that's 420 to simply PERCEIVE the emerging car before inputting any braking or steering!!!

At the very LEAST, there was a predictable 100mph differential between the M5 and any vehicle that might emerge.....more so if it were to be a heavy goods vehicle or a 1.6l family box!!

I conduct the forensic reconstruction of fatal collisions for a living.....and this guy is wholly culpable for his injuries and those of his passengers......and had anybody died then he would also be facing a stint in a very small room with bunk beds!!

Take it to the track people.........
I second that "take it to the track" that's a big 10 FOR

I like to add that driving on any highway is a privilege and not a right. Some people think it is a right for them to be there and therefore act like they own the road. Completely forgetting what can happen if someone pulls out from the right lane into the left without warning as many people do.

If traffic in the right lane on the autobahn is between 150 and 170 KM (I know that is where I travel often between 2 trucks [since I rent VW when in Germany], until the one behind me comes so close it becommes uncomfortable). So let us say the left lane then open and some of the fast cars travel 250 to 300 KM is that not like playing Russian Roulette ?

I often ask myself (when I travel on the autobahn) don't those people realize that driving at those speeds is just like walking around with a loaded gun? How iresponcible are people becoming,

People that are responsible would take the car to the track and if they speed like this they better make sure that no one else is around so when they do crash (blown tire etc) they only kill themselfs and not some increment other or heaven forbit an entire family.

Yes .... indeed take it to the track, I agree 100%
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      04-21-2012, 05:20 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996911 View Post
People just don't read. It's clear as day right in the first post. It was his sons.
It is also clear as day to me that this was a famaly outing. Three fine ///M cars in close proximity (M3, M5 and M6) on the Autobahn the lead car a M5 going 186 MPH (299.4 KM / Hr). Sounds to me like a family race, it's crystal clear to me.

How dare those people making the Autobahn there private race track.

All I can say is what Comer Pile just to say in the "The Andy Griffith Show "

Shame .... Shame .... Shame .... ---> Click Here then Select No. 6

*** Quote from Original Post and other reports of this accident;-

The M6 and M3 on the scene belong to the M5 owner's sons, who were traveling with the M5 at the time of the accident.

*** End of Quote
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Last edited by Mr. ///M3 RD; 04-21-2012 at 05:25 PM..
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      04-21-2012, 05:34 PM   #198
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Place blame where it belongs.

Hitler's fault. Was his idea.
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