Short video of M5 beating the new 991 Carrera S(991)

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Mbdurham17

Yes but the difference is Porsche which you see quite often and honestly the layman knows no difference from a turbo or a Boxster and then there's a Ferrari which everyone knows.....I could not do that if I buy a 458 and someone who spent way less smoke me is be trading....$$$ = performance in the performance car world ....same with the M5 vs M6 to me could I have bought an M6 yes but why? When the M5 is much more practical with pretty much the same performance ? Same as GT3 vs C2S

Disclaimer I am pretty drunk

Oh I hear ya. Totally get it. Would be hard to spend what equates to a TTS + M5 + a little more only to get your butt handed to you by the TTS.

Honestly, I'm having that struggle right now. I have a 458 Spider due to arrive in August but I am not sure that I can deal with that much difference in performance. Already looking at the Hennessy twin turbo kit-lol! Not going to do that!

I drive the crap out of my cars so I think I would very much miss the rush of the TTS.

I thought about the Speciale but then you see how much the TTS leaves it also and frankly, even if that wasn't the case, the 458 Spider is a FAR prettier car. The lines are just gorgeous and the interior-wow! Speciale is just a stripped down thing with metal floorboards. I truly loved it at first but I think I had myself all hyped up on the allure of the new super sporty Ferrari. Looks cheap inside to me. I don't get into all of that metal and plastic looking stuff for the sake of weight saving. For road use you get PLENTY of raw race car feel with the Spider.

I think I am sticking with my TTS. Canceled my GT3 the other day for the same reason. Too raw for me. I like a little luxury. Less performance too. Going to cancel the Huracan too. Prob. Wait for the 458 replacement which will likely be a turbo.

Keeping the M6 cab too and selling the Cali also. Not enough performance in the Cali. It is a more fun car to drive on a lot of ways but it lacks the power. The M6 will smoke it pretty easily.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by alexey21

Because I let someone else take the initial depreciation hit on a car, and when the opportunity arose, I got the chance to jump on a great deal on a great car. It was always garaged, smells new inside, has warranty, and less miles than the M5.

Right, so you agree, price matters.

[alexey21]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Right, so you agree, price matters.

If I had no other options I would have bought a new one. But when there is a car with just 5,000 miles on it for just 106,000k why not jump on it.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by alexey21

If I had no other options I would have bought a new one. But when there is a car with just 5,000 miles on it for just 106,000k why not jump on it.

You are wiser than most of us for sure. I could be in a dang La Ferrari with all the $ I have wasted trading these dang things!

[Mbdurham17]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Oh I hear ya. Totally get it. Would be hard to spend what equates to a TTS + M5 + a little more only to get your butt handed to you by the TTS.

Honestly, I'm having that struggle right now. I have a 458 Spider due to arrive in August but I am not sure that I can deal with that much difference in performance. Already looking at the Hennessy twin turbo kit-lol! Not going to do that!

I drive the crap out of my cars so I think I would very much miss the rush of the TTS.

I thought about the Speciale but then you see how much the TTS leaves it also and frankly, even if that wasn't the case, the 458 Spider is a FAR prettier car. The lines are just gorgeous and the interior-wow! Speciale is just a stripped down thing with metal floorboards. I truly loved it at first but I think I had myself all hyped up on the allure of the new super sporty Ferrari. Looks cheap inside to me. I don't get into all of that metal and plastic looking stuff for the sake of weight saving. For road use you get PLENTY of raw race car feel with the Spider.

I think I am sticking with my TTS. Canceled my GT3 the other day for the same reason. Too raw for me. I like a little luxury. Less performance too. Going to cancel the Huracan too. Prob. Wait for the 458 replacement which will likely be a turbo.

Keeping the M6 cab too and selling the Cali also. Not enough performance in the Cali. It is a more fun car to drive on a lot of ways but it lacks the power. The M6 will smoke it pretty easily.

I owned a RS America which I loved and should have never sold which I guess I am trying to recapture lol they are now going for twice what I paid for it and sold it for

[clar]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Oh here we go again!

So, let's talk about exactly how dollars bear no relevance "cos" u can c herrrr....

[u2b]

[/u2b]

Maybe I'll bring my TTS over to Singapore to show you how the Turbo matches the Non-Turbo Speciale....or you could just watch that video again.

No worries honey, I am not at it again It's Friday over here and i just thot I should claim my share of stupid posts. After all, everything goes in the "vs" forum rite? Anyway, on the point abt speed, anyone who buys one of these cars and think they are king on the straights are delusional. I know for a fact that the Speciale would probably not keep up with the 12C (which I test drove and passed on), never mind the 650S. Who buys these cars just to go fast in the straights? At a million USD a pop for the Speciale, I have to be a major retard to be buying it for straight line speed. I couldn't care less if something much cheaper comes along and creams me in the straights. Thumbs up if they do, but it doesn't bother me one bit. In any case, i dun ever race on the streets so 0-60 is of no interests to me.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by alexey21

Thank you ColdList. I guess I got lucky with my parents, who like me are car enthusiasts, and have been exposing me to different cars since I was 15. Unfortunately, I might be wrapping it up with cars for a while as I have 4 dreadful years of Medical school ahead of me soon. Wont stop me from enjoying the Turbo



Because I let someone else take the initial depreciation hit on a car, and when the opportunity arose, I got the chance to jump on a great deal on a great car. It was always garaged, smells new inside, has warranty, and less miles than the M5.

We are the same age 21 and drive an M5. lol your going to med school and I am going to go to law school next year. some similarity. YOU do know your cars well I like and respect that.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by Tom C

I fail to see how the "Turbo" (unless you mean Panamera Turbo) is a true "competitor" to an M5. The MSRP of a '14 991 Turbo is $151,100 base...no-options whatsoever. A '14 M5 MSRP is $92,900 base without any options. So the 991 Turbo is 62.6% more expensive base to base. Using the same relative 62.6% price differential, that would be like comparing a $57K car to a $92,900 base M5. Even a CTS-V starts at $64,900 (43% differential in base price) and having owned an '09 CTS-V, I can tell you it is not a real competitor given the quality of materials.

I guess it should be a compliment that you think a Turbo is a competitor for an M5. But I think you are wrong, this is how the M5 handles its true "$180K Porsche competitor" from a roll:

Beating up on a 991 Carrera S is just gravy....

wow that's impressive. I thought the M5 would loose for sure. I agree you engine wise THE cts V only competes with the m5 when you buy it new until it hits 20k miles after that the cheap quality of the interior brakes and steering. But that engine is amazing. but has horrible grip. I use to have a 2012 CTS V the recaro seats did look great but sucked after awhile and were uncomfortable. transmission sucked. but I THINK the coupe was better comparison with a M3.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Well your comparison was not fair at the first place!
I think OP's concern was just straight line comparison between two cars. One Porsche C2S with 400 HP with about 3120 lb weight (according to Porsche USA) with power/weight ratio of 0.128 hp/lb and the other one BMW M5 with 560 HP and 4400 lb weight with power/weight ratio of 0.127 hp/lb and I think it's fair (IMO). your quote was to compare a 520 HP AWD 3400 lb (I'm not sure about this weight just estimation) Porsche 911 Turbo with a 560 HP RWD 4400 lb BMW M5 ... is it fair?? I can Accept BMW M5 vs Porsche Panamera Turbo! Maybe you are right and M5 is not comparable with C2S. maybe M3/M4 are the better Comparable cars with C2S so let's see the result in a month
according to 525 vs C2S it's another unfair comparison. maybe 550 vs C2S....

I was just comparing it because I seen a lot of people lately getting the new 991 Cs2 or the 4 wHeel drive one. either buying it a long with the m5 and or trading in the m5 for a 991 edition. I do not see why they pay more for it when its not the better car if you compare price, it might have a better suspension and brakes but bmw m5 is not behind. and it is significantly faster. I Do love the CS2 and would like one but as replacing an m5 as a better car I do not think so. That's why I made this post but I Would like a 991. these cars are not comparable class rise as m5 is not a 2 door sports car.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by aculeg87

Have both, certainly the best of both worlds. However, when I drive the Porsche it feels slow because the M5 is so insanely fast.

exactly handling and semi handling with awesome straight speed in the m5.

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

How is that a fair comparison? The Porsche Turbo car with equivalent accoutrements costs $200,000 compared to the $110,000 of the M5. The 911 S will still cost more than the M5 similarly equipped. When buying a Porsche, you pay a lot to go fast around corners for a car that isn't going to be doing much high speed cornering.

The thing about the M5 that makes it so much more valuable to me is that I have a lot more use for it's acceleration than I lose in it's lack of cornering speed. The insane acceleration allows me to dominate the highway and that is something a nice road car should have. In the Porsche, it comes with a very high price.

I agree with you 100% over priced.

Originally Posted by alexey21

Are we comparing cars or prices? Fair comparison is Turbo car vs Turbo car.

There is no reason to argue with you since you can not even compare apples to apples. I will say this though, there is more to car than acceleration, and that is why the M5 costs 110,000 vs a 911, which costs more, because it offers so much more.

Don't forget the M5 is just a tricked out 5 series with lots of surgery, sure it is fast and all, but at heart it is still a huge heavy boat. The 911 at heart is and always has been a sports car, engineered from the start as a sports car. From the C2 to the Turbo and GT3, auto sports is what they were born to do.

I am not comparing this car apples to apples by the way, I just compared why people getting this as a replacement. not that the 991 cs2 or 4s is bad. I love it and would like one but it is not worth more in my opinion.

Also it is not a tricked out 5 series. the suspension, the safety in the car is built way diiferently it has the same body as a 5 series but its a different machine and car than a 5 series. 911 is a sports car but when you put the m5 on sport plus suspension not many cars compare to how stiff its suspension becomes.

Originally Posted by Tom C

Fair points, but I think the price point of the new 991 Turbo puts it in a completely different category. You will also notice that more than a couple of F10 M5 owners have jumped ship to a 991 Carrera S. Yes, some of the more deep pocketed F10 M5 owners have gone up market to a 911 Turbo, but that probably cost them 50+% more to get there. So I do think the there is a fair comparison between an F10 M5 and 991 Carrera S (although the better one would be with an M6).

I think the fascination with videos posted (like the one that started this thread), is illustrative of the satisfaction the M5 owners derrive from knowing that their cars are faster in a straight line than an iconic German sports car. You are right, the 911 was designed from the ground up as a sports car...yet in a key metric (straight line performance), the big..overweight..cheaper (option for option).. M5 dominates it. Yes, we know that when you start throwing curves and turns, the domination pendulum will swing to the lighter more nimble 991 Carrera. No doubt.

But I also think that 80% of the 911 buying public buy their car THINKING that it is faster in any performance metric than any mundane 4 door sedan and probably faster than anything they aren't sitting in at the time. I think that is where the satisfaction comes full circle. Knowing that you can humble that guy at the stop light next to you who bought the pretty badge from Zuffenhausen and thinks his 911 Carrera is faster than everything else on the road. Obviously, real automotive enthusiasts buy 911s as well and they are not the targets because they would know better and respect the M5 (at least from a roll).

I agree with your assumption.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by clar

No worries honey, I am not at it again It's Friday over here and i just thot I should claim my share of stupid posts. After all, everything goes in the "vs" forum rite? Anyway, on the point abt speed, anyone who buys one of these cars and think they are king on the straights are delusional. I know for a fact that the Speciale would probably not keep up with the 12C (which I test drove and passed on), never mind the 650S. Who buys these cars just to go fast in the straights? At a million USD a pop for the Speciale, I have to be a major retard to be buying it for straight line speed. I couldn't care less if something much cheaper comes along and creams me in the straights. Thumbs up if they do, but it doesn't bother me one bit. In any case, i dun ever race on the streets so 0-60 is of no interests to me.

The 650S is the cheapest looking POS on the road anyway...I don't care if it outruns everything in reverse.

Well dang. I thought we were going to have a little fun! I was trying baby-hahahahahahahaha!

[alexey21]

Originally Posted by N.S.A

We are the same age 21 and drive an M5. lol your going to med school and I am going to go to law school next year. some similarity. YOU do know your cars well I like and respect that.

I was starting to think I was the only young one here . Good luck in Law school.

Originally Posted by N.S.A

I am not comparing this car apples to apples by the way, I just compared why people getting this as a replacement. not that the 991 cs2 or 4s is bad. I love it and would like one but it is not worth more in my opinion.

Also it is not a tricked out 5 series. the suspension, the safety in the car is built way diiferently it has the same body as a 5 series but its a different machine and car than a 5 series. 911 is a sports car but when you put the m5 on sport plus suspension not many cars compare to how stiff its suspension becomes.

N.S.A I had the exact same thoughts as you did upon driving the 991 C4S for the first time. I got back into the M5 and said.... this thing is cheaper, faster, and it also has got control like no other, I dont understand the hype with the 911s. Except as each day and night went on, I kept thinking back to the C4S and decided I had to have another go at it. I came back in a week and had a go at the regular 7MT Carrera, which is way slower than the M5, and I started to realize the potential this car has. Got back into the M5 and and smiled as I took off, but for some reason, the M5 interested me less and less. Finally another week goes by of me thinking about the 911. The more I thought about the 911, the less I was excited by the M5. Finally, one more test drive sealed the deal for me. Once I caught on to the fact that the M5 was making me less exciting I realized it was game over M5.

The 911 made me realize that control is just as important as the motor. Back when I drove my first car , E60 550i, I always enjoyed how balanced the car was. It had enough power AND it had good handling characteristics that you were always aware of because the car communicated with the driver. The M5, excites a person with the brutal power it has, and distracts you from the numb communication, in a way confusing you on what you want from a car. All the way until I drove the 911 again, the M5 played an illusion on my mind, but as soon as I knew what was behind the red curtain I could not go back to pretending. I admitted the M5 has a far greater motor potential than the chassis. Due to the fact that I felt the cars chassis was underdeveloped, and that sense of control was gone, it made the car less enjoyable, and personally felt less safe as its stability is not always clear.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by alexey21

I was starting to think I was the only young one here . Good luck in Law school.



N.S.A I had the exact same thoughts as you did upon driving the 991 C4S for the first time. I got back into the M5 and said.... this thing is cheaper, faster, and it also has got control like no other, I dont understand the hype with the 911s. Except as each day and night went on, I kept thinking back to the C4S and decided I had to have another go at it. I came back in a week and had a go at the regular 7MT Carrera, which is way slower than the M5, and I started to realize the potential this car has. Got back into the M5 and and smiled as I took off, but for some reason, the M5 interested me less and less. Finally another week goes by of me thinking about the 911. The more I thought about the 911, the less I was excited by the M5. Finally, one more test drive sealed the deal for me. Once I caught on to the fact that the M5 was making me less exciting I realized it was game over M5.

The 911 made me realize that control is just as important as the motor. Back when I drove my first car , E60 550i, I always enjoyed how balanced the car was. It had enough power AND it had good handling characteristics that you were always aware of because the car communicated with the driver. The M5, excites a person with the brutal power it has, and distracts you from the numb communication, in a way confusing you on what you want from a car. All the way until I drove the 911 again, the M5 played an illusion on my mind, but as soon as I knew what was behind the red curtain I could not go back to pretending. I admitted the M5 has a far greater motor potential than the chassis. Due to the fact that I felt the cars chassis was underdeveloped, and that sense of control was gone, it made the car less enjoyable, and personally felt less safe as its stability is not always clear.

Wow does this story sound familiar. EXACTLY what I went through only I was already slightly numb on the M5 because of the M6 cab.

...Also, I did this back and forth thing for 2 full months! I had the same "feeling" all the time. Intrigued more and more by the 991 and less and less interested in the M5. When the day came that the salesman tossed me the keys and let me take it out myself and just thrash it around I was hooked. I was on the phone with Bimmer6 standing behind the car after the test drive saying "man, this this is ticking and smelling from what I just did to it" and I just had to have it!

I might add that I was going to say "give me your number when you get your degree because it's always good to know a smart doctor." Then I saw you were form Philly and likely a stinking Flyers fan!-lol!

[clar]

Originally Posted by ColdList

The 650S is the cheapest looking POS on the road anyway...I don't care if it outruns everything in reverse.

Well dang. I thought we were going to have a little fun! I was trying baby-hahahahahahahaha!

The 650S looking cheap? That's the first time i hear that. I thot it looks way better than the 12C. I have no issue with how the 12C drives. It's got amazing suspension. Better than anything I have driven out there. I hated the damn doors and wish the car communicated more and sound better...

[alexey21]

Originally Posted by ColdList

I might add that I was going to say "give me your number when you get your degree because it's always good to know a smart doctor." Then I saw you were form Philly and likely a stinking Flyers fan!-lol!

Haha sorry, but I am a flyers fan. Although, some days I am embarrassed to admit being one

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by clar

The 650S looking cheap? That's the first time i hear that. I thot it looks way better than the 12C. I have no issue with how the 12C drives. It's got amazing suspension. Better than anything I have driven out there. I hated the damn doors and wish the car communicated more and sound better...

I know it's very subjective to say that but generally that's how I feel about the McClaren. My buddy and I saw the 650S in person a month or so at the Lamborghini store and it just looked like a hopped up version of the 12C with a P1 looking nose on the front. I don't know. That interior to me is really underwhelming. There is "simple" and then there's too simple. Might be the blue color the 650S that I saw that made it look more "plasticy" if that makes any sense. I do like how they look from the back. I just think the front end just is a little "off" to me. 650S does look better than the 12C.
When you put those cars next to a Ferrari there is just a night and day difference. I have not driven one but I hear the same. Supposed to be fantastic! I hated the doors too. Not a comfortable car to get in and out of and very tight inside.

Now, I will say that since the price son the 12C are dropping like rocks, for the right price I'd get one to play with for a bit.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by alexey21

Haha sorry, but I am a flyers fan. Although, some days I am embarrassed to admit being one

It's ok. I married a Flyers fan! Talk about PAIN!-hahahahahaha!

I feel the same way about my Pens. Two years in a row-major choke in the playoffs! Ugh...

Screw the Eagles too btw-lol! GO STILLERS!

[Actor]

Originally Posted by ColdList

…….. "give me your number when you get your degree because it's always good to know a smart doctor."

What about the old ones????

[clar]

Originally Posted by ColdList

I know it's very subjective to say that but generally that's how I feel about the McClaren. My buddy and I saw the 650S in person a month or so at the Lamborghini store and it just looked like a hopped up version of the 12C with a P1 looking nose on the front. I don't know. That interior to me is really underwhelming. There is "simple" and then there's too simple. Might be the blue color the 650S that I saw that made it look more "plasticy" if that makes any sense. I do like how they look from the back. I just think the front end just is a little "off" to me. 650S does look better than the 12C.
When you put those cars next to a Ferrari there is just a night and day difference. I have not driven one but I hear the same. Supposed to be fantastic! I hated the doors too. Not a comfortable car to get in and out of and very tight inside.

Now, I will say that since the price son the 12C are dropping like rocks, for the right price I'd get one to play with for a bit.

For a first stab at producing sports cars, I would say Mclaren is doing a very fine job. I have a lot of respect for their approach towards making cars. I esp like the fact that they continued to improve upon the 12C throughout its life cycle and making the enhancements available to all cars out there via updates. Nobody gets left high and dry. Cant say the same abt most other manufacturers. I will definitely have a Mac at some point. I am keeping a close watch on their P15 that will come after the cheaper P13.

Go for a test drive in the 12C if u can. It's stupid fast and that amazing suspension will knock your socks off. Imagine accelerating through a speed hump and not crashing on landing. Magic carpet ride in a super car. Who would have thot possible?

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Actor

What about the old ones????

Ok, if I ever make it across hat big pool of water I'll call you-lol!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by clar

For a first stab at producing sports cars, I would say Mclaren is doing a very fine job. I have a lot of respect for their approach towards making cars. I esp like the fact that they continued to improve upon the 12C throughout its life cycle and making the enhancements available to all cars out there via updates. Nobody gets left high and dry. Cant say the same abt most other manufacturers. I will definitely have a Mac at some point. I am keeping a close watch on their P15 that will come after the cheaper P13.

Go for a test drive in the 12C if u can. It's stupid fast and that amazing suspension will knock your socks off. Imagine accelerating through a speed hump and not crashing on landing. Magic carpet ride in a super car. Who would have thot possible?

Interesting. I haven't paid enough attention to them to know that.

I may go for a ride in one today. The 12Cs are stacked pretty deep here. Like I said, for the right $ I would be interested. You gotta drive the TTS if you haven't as well. Honestly, it's sort of the same thing. The car is not flashy, although it is a lot more well appointed in the interior than the McClaren, but the driveability is amazing. Bear in mind, it's slightly faster than the 12C to approx. 100. You get that mad rush and it is smooth as glass. Now I'm intrigued more. Going ot def. head out to dealer shortly.

This sucks...you know it's usually the cars I talk smack about that end up in my garage.

[ColdList]

Crap!

http://www.motorcarsofgeorgia.com/us...4422963789.htm