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      06-13-2022, 08:34 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Honestly man, a PP2 stang is compelling. People laugh but the coyote is far, far less headache than the german V8's, PP2 suspension is sorted, cheap aftermarket ....... there's just this stigma people have.
FWIW, if you're going to modify it anyways you might as well start with a base car. PP2 is well sorted for a factory setup, but you can get a full coilover setup on a mustang for less than the premium on a PP2. Heck I might keep an eye out for a dirt cheap s550 for a long term project as people abandon them due to gas prices. The base ones probably won't hold value, but it'll be a great track car.
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      06-13-2022, 08:37 AM   #24
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I was only looking at used Mach 1's not ordering one. I'm not waiting for anything unless it's my dream car...this is just a fun toy car.
Right, but if you're willing to travel its possible to find them once in awhile new on a lot for MSRP. Used is just stupid. They are often over MSRP, its always the scum bag dealers flipping cars with a few hundred miles on them. At least new there are a few dealers who just refuse to do ADM. Just gotta set an alert and keep calling when they hit autotrader, etc.
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      06-13-2022, 08:41 AM   #25
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Right, but if you're willing to travel its possible to find them once in awhile new on a lot for MSRP. Used is just stupid. They are often over MSRP, its always the scum bag dealers flipping cars with a few hundred miles on them. At least new there are a few dealers who just refuse to do ADM. Just gotta set an alert and keep calling when they hit autotrader, etc.
ADM aren't as bad in Canada right now as they are in the US. There's also next to nothing new, even if travelling, sitting on lots here. So finding a private sale or a reputable dealer who has a used one is what I'm keeping my eye out for.
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      06-13-2022, 11:03 AM   #26
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This thread is devolving into a shit on electric vehicles rant and it baffles me. Have you all driven an electric vehicle? They're superior is most conditions. Where do you think fuel prices are going?
What's going to happen to ICE's? I definitely see them continuing to lose market share to electric vehicles. But there's still a need for ICE vehicles. If you drive long distances or tow, there still no electric replacement. However, for a commuter, you're doing yourself a huge disservice by not at least test driving an electric vehicle. They're quiet, powerful and they're a fraction of the price to operate.
I don't think v8 vehicles are going to go up in value. This isn't the equivalent of a mechanical watch. This is like hanging onto a steam tractor long after the market switched to diesel. NOTE: This doesn't apply to the collector market. There will always be us gearheads who want to hear the roar of the s65. But for everyday vehicles (non commercial), the v8 will soon be dead... Not because of emissions. They're just inferior to the new electric vehicles.
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      06-13-2022, 11:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by gilberjj View Post
This thread is devolving into a shit on electric vehicles rant and it baffles me. Have you all driven an electric vehicle? They're superior is most conditions. Where do you think fuel prices are going?
What's going to happen to ICE's? I definitely see them continuing to lose market share to electric vehicles. But there's still a need for ICE vehicles. If you drive long distances or tow, there still no electric replacement. However, for a commuter, you're doing yourself a huge disservice by not at least test driving an electric vehicle. They're quiet, powerful and they're a fraction of the price to operate.
I don't think v8 vehicles are going to go up in value. This isn't the equivalent of a mechanical watch. This is like hanging onto a steam tractor long after the market switched to diesel. NOTE: This doesn't apply to the collector market. There will always be us gearheads who want to hear the roar of the s65. But for everyday vehicles (non commercial), the v8 will soon be dead... Not because of emissions. They're just inferior to the new electric vehicles.
Who's shitting on electric vehicles in this thread???
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      06-13-2022, 11:48 AM   #28
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Hi everyone.
I am planing most expensive car purchase soon but one thing makes me reluctant to pull the trigger. With the expansion of EV's, better technologies to produce batteries, more charging support and increasing gas prices, do you think that dumping $60-$80k into m550 with big V8 is the smart idea considering possiblity of the major shift in consumer preference. I generally change cars every 5-7 years depending on mileage and maintenance cost so the resale value is an important factor. Interested to hear opinions.
Thank you.
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      06-13-2022, 11:54 AM   #29
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EVs are undoubtedly the future for your average commuter in a metro area. I think the biggest unanswered question is just how to handle renters and others who can't charge at home.
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      06-13-2022, 12:14 PM   #30
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I don't plan on losing $$ on either of my V8 vehicles .........
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      06-13-2022, 12:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gilberjj View Post
This thread is devolving into a shit on electric vehicles rant and it baffles me. Have you all driven an electric vehicle? They're superior is most conditions. Where do you think fuel prices are going?
What's going to happen to ICE's? I definitely see them continuing to lose market share to electric vehicles. But there's still a need for ICE vehicles. If you drive long distances or tow, there still no electric replacement. However, for a commuter, you're doing yourself a huge disservice by not at least test driving an electric vehicle. They're quiet, powerful and they're a fraction of the price to operate.
I don't think v8 vehicles are going to go up in value. This isn't the equivalent of a mechanical watch. This is like hanging onto a steam tractor long after the market switched to diesel. NOTE: This doesn't apply to the collector market. There will always be us gearheads who want to hear the roar of the s65. But for everyday vehicles (non commercial), the v8 will soon be dead... Not because of emissions. They're just inferior to the new electric vehicles.
We’re all gear heads so by nature we’re supposed to hate ev lol.

I have a model 3 and let me say, this is probably one of the best car purchases I made. The convenience of never doing any maintenance besides brakes and tires (which I won’t do since I leased it), never having to go to the gas station, the instant torque, the quiet ride (interior quality not bad at all aside from a couple of interior panel taps), the loads of tech, the futuristic styling, and the community of owning such a car just makes things so nice for a change. I’ve gotten so many thumbs up in the first couple of days of having the car vs any type of thumbs up or neck breaks my m3c has gotten in 6 months.

I can never go back to an ICE daily driver. Never never.

Ev definitely has its place and if it fits your lifestyle you won’t go back.
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      06-13-2022, 12:30 PM   #32
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The only thing stopping EV's taking over is a) purchase price and b) charging infrastructure.
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      06-13-2022, 02:02 PM   #33
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There's usually negativity or confusion (usually the case with EV's in general) and in this thread and a silly comment around an EV losing 35% of its battery life after a 5-7 years and newer EV will have much faster charging? It doesn't at all work like that, maybe after 200,000 miles you would lose 10%. Tesla's charge to 80% in 20 minutes as well so there's usually a lot of misunderstanding with this stuff...

Having a new Y for a year it is painfully obvious for most situations the EV is way superior but I think special ICE cars will be valuable luxury goods in the future.

Hence I would agree with the OP, as EV adoption goes up and people realize ICE cars are inferior, you risk holding the bag unless its a sporty/fast/weekend type of V8 enthusiast car. The torque, power, tech and ease of use of the Tesla makes most ICE cars I drive feel well past their time. I own an just bought an 6mt E92 because I feel it will be in the "correct" category in time as a vintage N/A V8 but I have no delusion to think it's not inferior unless you're a car enthusiast who wants the sound and feel of a V8..

Right now we are in a time where for many reasons people just haven't experienced an EV and don't realize how much better it can be. I wouldn't want to get caught owning a gas car when the tides shift because it will...



In fact I just sold an interior to my car and the transporter driver picking it all up in my driveway two minutes ago was just outside asking a lot of questions about the model Y. "but its not powerful right?" "I don't trust the tech", "I dont want to wait an hour to charge"

It's very fast (the base model) there is nothing to distrust (its just a car), its 20 min to charge to from 10ish% to 80%.

I showed him the M3 is the garage and he straight up didn't believe me that the Tesla would easily beat it in a straight line to 80.

Last edited by neilum; 06-13-2022 at 02:15 PM..
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      06-13-2022, 02:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilum View Post
There's usually negativity or confusion (usually the case with EV's in general) and in this thread and a silly comment around an EV losing 35% of its battery life after a 5-7 years and newer EV will have much faster charging? It doesn't at all work like that, maybe after 200,000 miles you would lose 10%. Tesla's charge to 80% in 20 minutes as well so there's usually a lot of misunderstanding with this stuff...

Having a new Y for a year it is painfully obvious for most situations the EV is way superior but I think special ICE cars will be valuable luxury goods in the future.

Hence I would agree with the OP, as EV adoption goes up and people realize ICE cars are inferior, you risk holding the bag unless its a sporty/fast/weekend type of V8 enthusiast car. The torque, power, tech and ease of use of the Tesla makes most ICE cars I drive feel well past their time. I own an just bought an 6mt E92 because I feel it will be in the "correct" category in time as a vintage N/A V8 but I have no delusion to think it's not inferior unless you're a car enthusiast who wants the sound and feel of a V8..

Right now we are in a time where for many reasons people just haven't experienced an EV and don't realize how much better it can be. I wouldn't want to get caught owning a gas car when the tides shift because it will...



In fact I just sold an interior to my car and the transporter driver picking it all up in my driveway two minutes ago was just outside asking a lot of questions about the model Y. "but its not powerful right?" "I don't trust the tech", "I dont want to wait an hour to charge"

It's very fast (the base model) there is nothing to distrust (its just a car), its 20 min to charge to from 10ish% to 80%.

I showed him the M3 is the garage and he straight up didn't believe me that the Tesla would easily beat it in a straight line to 80.
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      06-13-2022, 03:15 PM   #35
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i dont know where those 2 are coming from ^ but i dont think anyone is shitting on EVs.

v8 vehicles, especially SUVs/Trucks/performance cars arent going to tank in value once EVs are more common. There will still be plenty of enthusiasts that want ICE, and if you have something in good condition, there will be a market for it. you can already see it in vehicles that have gone from v8s to turbo 6s.

Sure your run of the mill ICE sedans/SUVs/Trucks may not have as big of a market as EV comes out, especially since with EV you tend to get a lot more tech since thats the biggest selling point of them IMO, so if youre getting a v6 or v6 turbo ICE car, dont expect that to have a strong market.

As for EV being far superior, i disagree. they have their place, but i have yet to drive an EV that takes the canyons like a good performance ICE vehicle. if im commuting or driving long distances, sure, but only because of the tech/self driving.
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      06-13-2022, 04:35 PM   #36
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The only thing stopping EV's taking over is a) purchase price and b) charging infrastructure.
and that will all change in the coming years ........
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      06-13-2022, 05:17 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilum View Post
There's usually negativity or confusion (usually the case with EV's in general) and in this thread and a silly comment around an EV losing 35% of its battery life after a 5-7 years and newer EV will have much faster charging? It doesn't at all work like that, maybe after 200,000 miles you would lose 10%. Tesla's charge to 80% in 20 minutes as well so there's usually a lot of misunderstanding with this stuff...

Having a new Y for a year it is painfully obvious for most situations the EV is way superior but I think special ICE cars will be valuable luxury goods in the future.

Hence I would agree with the OP, as EV adoption goes up and people realize ICE cars are inferior, you risk holding the bag unless its a sporty/fast/weekend type of V8 enthusiast car. The torque, power, tech and ease of use of the Tesla makes most ICE cars I drive feel well past their time. I own an just bought an 6mt E92 because I feel it will be in the "correct" category in time as a vintage N/A V8 but I have no delusion to think it's not inferior unless you're a car enthusiast who wants the sound and feel of a V8..

Right now we are in a time where for many reasons people just haven't experienced an EV and don't realize how much better it can be. I wouldn't want to get caught owning a gas car when the tides shift because it will...



In fact I just sold an interior to my car and the transporter driver picking it all up in my driveway two minutes ago was just outside asking a lot of questions about the model Y. "but its not powerful right?" "I don't trust the tech", "I dont want to wait an hour to charge"

It's very fast (the base model) there is nothing to distrust (its just a car), its 20 min to charge to from 10ish% to 80%.

I showed him the M3 is the garage and he straight up didn't believe me that the Tesla would easily beat it in a straight line to 80.


The anit-EV people are hilarious.

There's a wawa by my house with 8 superchargers. I went there one time when my GF ran my model 3 down to 29% SOC and it literally took me 22 minutes to get to 80%. Yeah i know it's still longer than a typical gas station visit but i plugged the car in and went inside wawa to get a drink and some snacks. I bought a couple of lottery tickets, went back in the car and ate the snacks and before you know it, the car was at 80%.

People make so many excuses because they don't want to like it. It doesn't fit every lifestyle but that gap is closing VERY fast.

I purchased acceleration boost which brought my 0-60 time to 3.7.

I destroy basically everything in my path from a light and when i need to pass someone in a hurry. It doesn't have much top end at 100+ but for the driving i do, even passing on the highway, no one can match me. The instant torque darts you where ever you need to go where other cars, their trans has to downshift and do all these things which delays the reaction time.
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      06-13-2022, 07:42 PM   #38
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I am a pragmatist with no horse in the race. Market will top out as 30%, maybe 35%, Hybrid another 30 to 35% and the rest ICE. Charging publicly is goign to be all sorts of difficult.
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      06-14-2022, 08:11 AM   #39
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Quote:
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I am a pragmatist with no horse in the race. Market will top out as 30%, maybe 35%, Hybrid another 30 to 35% and the rest ICE. Charging publicly is goign to be all sorts of difficult.
I envision the OEMs will target everyone in urban centers and leave the rest up to government regulation.
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      06-14-2022, 09:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsDriver View Post
I think it's a brilliant idea personally and therefore I'm taking delivery of our X5 M50i next week. I'm meeting people pretty often that are going for the up spec high performance ICE engine now because in several years we may not be able to have that option. If not now, maybe never?

I'm thinking that EVs purchased today are going to take the biggest hit on resale in several years because of how rapidly that technology is improving. Who's going to want a 5 - 7 year old EV that has maybe only 30-40% of its battery life left and has a range of 325 miles when a new EV then will have a 500 mile range and much more rapid charging.

I plan to be making noise and destroying tires for the foreseeable future! And before some fellow environmentalist goes looking down their nose at me, the emissions data show that you're polluting more by running your 2 stroke weedwhacker for 30 minutes than my V8 will on a several hundred mile drive.

Giddy up!
Unless you go with a Stihl FS131... 4-stroker.
I went electric on the weedwhacker to over compensate for the V8!
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      06-14-2022, 09:34 AM   #41
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
The only thing stopping EV's taking over is a) purchase price and b) charging infrastructure.
and that will all change in the coming years ........
So in the coming years I'll look at it again. Right now I'm not ready to be an early adopter in a rapidly improving technology.

I've spent almost my entire life turning non-renewable fossils into fun in the air, water, and land on both two and four wheels. The performance of electric is amazing but there will always be something visceral missing without the beat of combustion.
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      06-14-2022, 09:55 AM   #42
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The rapidly improving is also a concern. So we spend what, hundreds billions on chargers then find out they are all useless as someone invents one that works twice as fast.

The public charger aspect is a monumental hurdle the industry and government has severely under estimated imho. Plug in Hybrid may well win the day.
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      06-14-2022, 10:07 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I am a pragmatist with no horse in the race. Market will top out as 30%, maybe 35%, Hybrid another 30 to 35% and the rest ICE. Charging publicly is goign to be all sorts of difficult.
I envision the OEMs will target everyone in urban centers and leave the rest up to government regulation.
Probably. That has happened for pretty much every major infrastructure change in rural areas. More cost to deliver to less customers.
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      06-14-2022, 11:28 AM   #44
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The rapidly improving is also a concern. So we spend what, hundreds billions on chargers then find out they are all useless as someone invents one that works twice as fast.
Let me tell you about the Littoral Combat Ship
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