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      04-20-2012, 11:02 AM   #155
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      04-20-2012, 11:12 AM   #156
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No worries, MAC can fix that....doesn't need a drop though it seems! lol Hey I get it, it was a serious accident, but you have to pay to play and shit happens. I have no sympathy for the driver or his sons (and dog) regardless if there is no speed limit on the autobahn.....he took a chance driving insane speeds in a big ass M5 (most likely without any additional safety equipment like cage, helmet, etc). Another driver allegedly caused this but thank god this guy didnt kill anybody else. Pretty stupid to drive like that either way.
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      04-20-2012, 11:13 AM   #157
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300 kmph is bad enough.Driving in the Right lane at those speeds is worse.I agree ,the reaction time at those speeds is non existent.

This is the second major crash involving a M car in the last year,The last driver died at the spot and the pics of the ripped apart M3 still remain in my memory.

I hope the family pulls through this.

Coming to about an entirely different topic.2 questions

1. Why does BMW have to produce such powerful cars for public use?

2. Who decides the legality of a powerful car for public use?

Everyone knows the end result of too much speed and yet we see more and more powerful cars coming out each year.Everything shouldn't be about money
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      04-20-2012, 11:39 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delvek View Post
Incredible event. The occupants are very fortunate to have their lives.

I read a lot of the comments and unless one has driven on autobahns it is not possible to comment on what is safe and what isnt. The simple fact is there are very few accidents on German autobahns. The road construction and design is such to allow for fast speeds in a safe environment. Behavior such as this driver who cut off the driver in an aggressive nature is not something that I can say is normal but rare.
+1
Finally! A comment with sense.
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      04-20-2012, 11:40 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cukoodukoo View Post
300 kmph is bad enough.Driving in the Right lane at those speeds is worse.I agree ,the reaction time at those speeds is non existent.

This is the second major crash involving a M car in the last year,The last driver died at the spot and the pics of the ripped apart M3 still remain in my memory.

I hope the family pulls through this.

Coming to about an entirely different topic.2 questions

1. Why does BMW have to produce such powerful cars for public use?

2. Who decides the legality of a powerful car for public use?

Everyone knows the end result of too much speed and yet we see more and more powerful cars coming out each year.Everything shouldn't be about money
It's not the car's fault or BMWs fault if that's where you're getting at. Shit happens, and this accident happened at high speed.
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      04-20-2012, 11:42 AM   #160
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They were very very lucky to be alive with no severe injuries as the car looks....
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      04-20-2012, 12:09 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nockenpaul View Post
Well, even if there is no general speed limit on the Autobahn, there is a "adivsory speed limit" of 130 km/h. If you exceed this limit and are involved in an accident, you can have partial liability so that the insurance will refuse to pay 100 %.

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0...748406,00.html

http://horst-schinzel.suite101.de/di...-werden-a48418
^^^ One of the more informative posts right here. 100% agree!

Don't anyone think driving on the German Autobahn is a free for all. There are restrictions on speed and well posted ahead of time. Fatalities are up in Germany right now 10% over the past year and POLICE are very much out in force in unmarked cars. All actions are video taped by the unmarked patrol cars. They will tape your aggressive driving then pull you over and charge you. Charges can include the fee for the drivers licence suspension (if you are not a resident of Germany). You will have to follow the police to the next rest area and there you will find a ATM machine and expect to hand over anywhere from 300 to 1,000 + Euros you better have it in your account or the next stop will be jail.

So anyone doing a EURO Delivery in the near future be on guard, drive within posed speed limits or avoid the Autobahn

I have arranged to translate the above 2 inks from German to English so some of you that are not able to read German can do so in English.

First link from above ---> CLICK TO OPEN

Second link from above ---> CLICK TO OPEN

As I said before (in a privies post I hope everyone recovers fine).

BTW I was born in Germany, I drive in Germany every 2 to 3 years when I visit Family members. So believe me I know what gives
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      04-20-2012, 12:22 PM   #162
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Good post Rolf.

I wish our police and highway patrol busted people right on the spot with atm payment required at the next rest area. This would cut down on knuckle head reckless and clueless drivers immediately.

On another note, time to for fire extinguisher suggestions. Sounded very timely in the story. I carry first aid equipment, but admittedly stopped having a small fire extinguisher two cars ago.
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      04-20-2012, 12:30 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussRamz View Post
+1
Finally! A comment with sense.
While it might be well written (the post you refer to) I'm sorry to say I cannot share your point of view. There are some cowboys on the German Autobahn, I've experianced it personally. I normally rent a VW and while I can hold 150 to 170KM quite safe in the right hand lane when overtaking trucks at say 190 KM things do get tricky.

I'm sure (unless you drive one of the faster cars and always live in the left lane) you may have experienced this.

1) check in your rear mirror all is clear you speed up from say 170 to 190KM + to over take a 18 wheeler.

2) as you are in the middle of overtaking a Porsche BMW or Mercedes flashes his lights for you to get out of the left lane.

On one such occasion the Porsche driver was so mad at me that I did not get out of his way fast enough since I had to gain a save distance in order to turn safely to the right lane in front of the 18 wheeler. He in fact cut me off, damaged my car and speed off.

Thus there are also idiots and cawboys in Germany on the Autobahn. If you have not meet any yet give it time you will. Just be ready when you do and keep your cool.

Cheers, Rolf

BTW When he stated there are not many accedens on the autobahn I had to

Just see how many accidents there are on the AUTOBAHN ---> CLICK HERE AND CHECK IT OUT
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      04-20-2012, 03:28 PM   #164
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There are some funny comments here: these kind of motorways (with unrestricted speed limit on the left line) have 4 lines: starting from the right to left, the first one is for slow trucks, the second one is for faster trucks that have to over pass the slower ones, but after that they should return on the first line, the third line is for let's say "normal" speeding cars to have enough space to over pass the "fast" trucks, but also these cars have to go back on the second line after the over pass is finished and the fourth line with the unrestricted speed limit.

Also these zones with unrestricted speed limit can have some areas with sometimes 100 km/h (62mph) limit and everybody brakes 'till reach this limit.

But the most important thing on this type of motorway is to stay on right as much time as the line is clear.

In UK the speed limit on the motorway is very low and also in a lot of EU countries with a limit of 130km/h. In the US is also a very low speed limit.
It's clear that for a lot of drivers this speed of 300km/h is insane but entering on the 4th line with let's say 150km/h without being sure that nobody will come from the back is like entering into an intersection without taking into account the "STOP" sign.

It s not good at all to over pass the speed limit in the areas with restricted speed but I can t blame a driver for going as fast as he wants, legally.

The real problem is with the drivers that are going slow and are not paying attention at all at the real traffic conditions! I also had an almost similar accident 3 years ago and the cause was the same, a bad driver changed the line without paying attention to the traffic conditions. My car was totaled too due to the fact that I had to break and change the driving direction to not enter directly into his car Same thing happened here My recovery took around 2 months, hope this guy will be able to drive as he likes as soon as possible Burnrubber
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      04-20-2012, 04:13 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
There are some funny comments here: these kind of motorways (with unrestricted speed limit on the left line) have 4 lines: starting from the right to left, the first one is for slow trucks, the second one is for faster trucks that have to over pass the slower ones, but after that they should return on the first line, the third line is for etc etc
There are alot of 2-lane Autobahns with free speed.
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      04-20-2012, 05:39 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cukoodukoo View Post
300 kmph is bad enough.Driving in the Right lane at those speeds is worse.I agree ,the reaction time at those speeds is non existent.

This is the second major crash involving a M car in the last year,The last driver died at the spot and the pics of the ripped apart M3 still remain in my memory.

I hope the family pulls through this.

Coming to about an entirely different topic.2 questions

1. Why does BMW have to produce such powerful cars for public use?

2. Who decides the legality of a powerful car for public use?

Everyone knows the end result of too much speed and yet we see more and more powerful cars coming out each year.Everything shouldn't be about money
BORING!
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      04-20-2012, 05:41 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
There are some funny comments here: these kind of motorways (with unrestricted speed limit on the left line) have 4 lines: starting from the right to left, the first one is for slow trucks, the second one is for faster trucks that have to over pass the slower ones, but after that they should return on the first line, the third line is for let's say "normal" speeding cars to have enough space to over pass the "fast" trucks, but also these cars have to go back on the second line after the over pass is finished and the fourth line with the unrestricted speed limit.

Also these zones with unrestricted speed limit can have some areas with sometimes 100 km/h (62mph) limit and everybody brakes 'till reach this limit.
No offense, but I have no idea what you're talking about.

By the way, majority of unrestricted stretches on the autobahn are two-lane, not four.
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      04-20-2012, 06:05 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by MrPig View Post
If it's who I think it is, there was a post on maxbimmer recently commemorating the anniversary of his death. It was stated that the suspected reason for him losing control was bald tires after a track day.
PM send with is name. He sold me my 2008 z4 30is Mike was a Gentleman only 29 old on the day of the fatal accident a great guy Mike will be missed by many. As far as I know the steets were wet and he lost control overtaking this car on his way to see his girl friend.
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      04-20-2012, 06:08 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Sorry to see. The father was lucky to survive.

Other drivers make mistakes because of not being the best drivers and not being able to see or comprehend a car approaching at 300km/h.

A driver could reduce risks by slowing down and avoiding excessive speed differences when other cars are in sight.

If the accident happens, it does not help much even if the other party was at fault. Quite the contrary. You'll just get angry...
Absolutely correct. When I go on the autobahn I enjoy the freedom that it still offers but I make sure that I am not completely dependent on others being fully aware of my speed, or even my presence. 186mph at, or near an intersection (the other driver did apparently enter the autobahn "aggressively") is just asking for trouble. 186mph overtaking traffic already on the carriageway and settled at 130+ is foolish enough.

There is such a thing as anticipating and mitigating risks, and this guy appears not to have done so.

That said, I hope all concerned make a full recovery, especially the dog, as he had absolutely no say in the matter....
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      04-20-2012, 06:09 PM   #170
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I drove "~ fast (200km/h)" only on autobahns with 4 lanes. The first two lanes from the left were for slow vehicles (different kind of trucks), the 3rd one was "popular" for vehicles with an average speed of 150km/h or a little more and on the 4 lane the average speed was from 200km/h!

On a 2 lane motorway its impossible to drive with 300km/h during the day, luckily you can go with 200km/h on short distances!

Now I hope you understood

Also I've seen a tv show on a german channel and a guy with an 850 CSI was explaining that at a speed of around 250km/h you are much more concentrated to the road than when you driving quite slow: and I don't think that anyone can argue against this comment!
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      04-20-2012, 06:16 PM   #171
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The motorway with the accident has 3 lanes (see pic 1). I can't understand how can you enter from a secondary road straight on to the fastest lane
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      04-20-2012, 06:34 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cukoodukoo View Post
300 kmph is bad enough.Driving in the Right lane at those speeds is worse.I agree ,the reaction time at those speeds is non existent.

This is the second major crash involving a M car in the last year,The last driver died at the spot and the pics of the ripped apart M3 still remain in my memory.

I hope the family pulls through this.

Coming to about an entirely different topic.2 questions

1. Why does BMW have to produce such powerful cars for public use?

2. Who decides the legality of a powerful car for public use?

Everyone knows the end result of too much speed and yet we see more and more powerful cars coming out each year.Everything shouldn't be about money


Your entire comment does not make ANY sense. How many Toyota Camry's crashed last year? And hoe many died in it?
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      04-20-2012, 06:36 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
I drove "~ fast (200km/h)" only on autobahns with 4 lanes. The first two lanes from the left were for slow vehicles (different kind of trucks), the 3rd one was "popular" for vehicles with an average speed of 150km/h or a little more and on the 4 lane the average speed was from 200km/h!

On a 2 lane motorway its impossible to drive with 300km/h during the day, luckily you can go with 200km/h on short distances!

Now I hope you understood

Also I've seen a tv show on a german channel and a guy with an 850 CSI was explaining that at a speed of around 250km/h you are much more concentrated to the road than when you driving quite slow: and I don't think that anyone can argue against this comment!

Well problem is, we mostly have only two lane Autobahns. At least in Bavaria where I live. And usually it is hard to go 300 km/h during the day, but with the new M5 no problem. However if there is a lot of traffic (like trucks blocking the right lanes) it is extremely dangerous to go that fast.
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      04-20-2012, 06:37 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
Absolutely correct. When I go on the autobahn I enjoy the freedom that it still offers but I make sure that I am not completely dependent on others being fully aware of my speed, or even my presence. 186mph at, or near an intersection (the other driver did apparently enter the autobahn "aggressively") is just asking for trouble. 186mph overtaking traffic already on the carriageway and settled at 130+ is foolish enough.

There is such a thing as anticipating and mitigating risks, and this guy appears not to have done so.

That said, I hope all concerned make a full recovery, especially the dog, as he had absolutely no say in the matter....


absolutely agree!
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      04-20-2012, 07:25 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by ItsNumptyBoy View Post
Thankfully, worldwide without exception, the legal position is diametrically opposed to yours!!!

Firstly, it's NOT the Green Hell......if you want true "participation by consent, with no speed restrictions" then go there FFS!!!
This is a public highway, where the over riding factors, irrespective of posted limits, is the requirement to uphold a driving standard that shows a duty of care to ALL users. Driving, on any public highway, is NOT a consent based sport!!

This tool approached a clearly visible on slip, an "actual danger" in advanced driving terminology, and predictably, an emerging car joined the main carriageway. It is highly probable that the emerging car would have difficulty seeing the oncoming M5, and YES, may be displayed an element of neglect or less than ideal observational standards.......BUT, the tool in the M5 approach this hazard at V-Max......that being 280 feet per second!!!! That's 280 FEET PER SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!
With an average reaction time of AT LEAST 1.5 seconds (and on occasion as much as 3) that's 420 to simply PERCEIVE the emerging car before inputting any braking or steering!!!

At the very LEAST, there was a predictable 100mph differential between the M5 and any vehicle that might emerge.....more so if it were to be a heavy goods vehicle or a 1.6l family box!!

I conduct the forensic reconstruction of fatal collisions for a living.....and this guy is wholly culpable for his injuries and those of his passengers......and had anybody died then he would also be facing a stint in a very small room with bunk beds!!

Take it to the track people.........
VERY well said... kudos ~Frost
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      04-20-2012, 07:55 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsweet
they were lucky the car did not hit any other cars or truck after the initial hit which he probably almost avoided. That way it could loose all that kinetic energy progressively. for 300km/h that car held better than one would imagine. Hope they are lucky with their injuries recovery too.

Let's not compare with the usa. having experienced both places over many long years i would say that if public driving was held to europeans standards 70% of people in the US would carpool because they could never pass a driving test even after 10 times. it would be impossible to have a no-limit highway stretch here because most drivers really don't know how to drive safely. You can only know this after you experience the level of discipline that is expected on European roads.
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