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      11-21-2022, 06:07 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Opie55 View Post
I totally agree with wanting it how you want it, and I would never "settle" for a used car I did not love. I solve that problem by using the whole country as my used car lot. As long as somebody once ordered the car I want, I will go get it. And I never have them shipped. I fly in and drive it home. That's half the fun of buying one. I live in Colorado, but the last four cars we got for me or my kids were from Chicago, New Jersey, Washington State and Salt Lake City.
Totally get that. My issue isn't about finding the right one - even if I found the exact spec I would have ordered it in, it wouldn't feel as good to me as if I ordered it and purchases it brand new. It wouldn't feel like it was MINE. Just a preference... and admittedly an expensive preference.
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      11-22-2022, 09:38 PM   #376
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      11-22-2022, 09:59 PM   #377
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YTD I am at $400K. And here I was having a real hard time pulling the trigger on my M850i....

Curious, how did you pull this off? Did you finance it? At $3.5K gross, living expenses etc, seems unfathomable to me. Good for you either way.
If I was making $400k a year, I would have an M8 for a daily driver, and a 488 for a weekend car. I make a little under half that, so, I'm not sure what you're doing with the $33k a month, The only thing that makes even remote sense, is a $2 million house, and a fat/ maxed out 401k and retirement account. Coming to the table with $120k, cash, when rates were down at 0.9% would have been a waste of money. I locked in at that rate, in Oct of last year. No reason to drop all of that money, when the finance charge on an M4 is $84 a month on $1,635.

I sock 13% a month away, and I have a mil retirement pension, and I'm 8 years from my second 20 year pension, at 47. So, it all depends on what you feel you need. An M850i for a $400k a year income, is like buying a 1997 Prius making $10k a month.
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      11-23-2022, 11:00 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
If I was making $400k a year, I would have an M8 for a daily driver, and a 488 for a weekend car. I make a little under half that, so, I'm not sure what you're doing with the $33k a month, The only thing that makes even remote sense, is a $2 million house, and a fat/ maxed out 401k and retirement account. Coming to the table with $120k, cash, when rates were down at 0.9% would have been a waste of money. I locked in at that rate, in Oct of last year. No reason to drop all of that money, when the finance charge on an M4 is $84 a month on $1,635.

I sock 13% a month away, and I have a mil retirement pension, and I'm 8 years from my second 20 year pension, at 47. So, it all depends on what you feel you need. An M850i for a $400k a year income, is like buying a 1997 Prius making $10k a month.
"An M850i for a $400k a year income, is like buying a 1997 Prius making $10k a month" That's a good one! Very difficult to explain a full story on a forum...

You're quite fortunate with your pensions, I am self employed so we are in two completely different worlds. I have 10 years on you I am 57. $400K this year but normal years I am at $250K. To also note, I am also trying to retire early so these last few years really matter on spending to say the least. Socked away $61K this year in my Solo 401K which is the max. The M850i was also bought this year.

I would imagine your healthcare costs may be covered somewhat with your pensions? Mine will not. I'm self-funding everything and have been for the past 25 years. As we creep closer to retirement, the mindset on frivilous spending tends to change. On a side note, my buddy works at a Ferrari delaership. He told me the average Ferrari owners makes $500K per year and has a net worth of $5+ mil. You need to be in the top 3% to be in that arena which I am not a part of. Age and overall circumstances and views on frivilous spending certainly make a big difference in all these decesion making scenarios. Annual income doesn't really tell the full story as we've been seeing throughout this thread.

Great thread, some enjoyable reading!
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      11-23-2022, 11:17 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by fmzip View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
If I was making $400k a year, I would have an M8 for a daily driver, and a 488 for a weekend car. I make a little under half that, so, I'm not sure what you're doing with the $33k a month, The only thing that makes even remote sense, is a $2 million house, and a fat/ maxed out 401k and retirement account. Coming to the table with $120k, cash, when rates were down at 0.9% would have been a waste of money. I locked in at that rate, in Oct of last year. No reason to drop all of that money, when the finance charge on an M4 is $84 a month on $1,635.

I sock 13% a month away, and I have a mil retirement pension, and I'm 8 years from my second 20 year pension, at 47. So, it all depends on what you feel you need. An M850i for a $400k a year income, is like buying a 1997 Prius making $10k a month.
"An M850i for a $400k a year income, is like buying a 1997 Prius making $10k a month" That's a good one! Very difficult to explain a full story on a forum...

You're quite fortunate with your pensions, I am self employed so we are in two completely different worlds. I have 10 years on you I am 57. $400K this year but normal years I am at $250K. To also note, I am also trying to retire early so these last few years really matter on spending to say the least. Socked away $61K this year in my Solo 401K which is the max. The M850i was also bought this year.

I would imagine your healthcare costs may be covered somewhat with your pensions? Mine will not. I'm self-funding everything and have been for the past 25 years. As we creep closer to retirement, the mindset on frivilous spending tends to change. On a side note, my buddy works at a Ferrari delaership. He told me the average Ferrari owners makes $500K per year and has a net worth of $5+ mil. You need to be in the top 3% to be in that arena which I am not a part of. Age and overall circumstances and views on frivilous spending certainly make a big difference in all these decesion making scenarios. Annual income doesn't really tell the full story as we've been seeing throughout this thread.

Great thread, some enjoyable reading!
Yes, that definitely makes more sense. I was simply attempting to fracture the nut. It didn't need a full crack, just a slight fracture into the understanding behind it.

That easily makes more sense, now. Medical is huge, and he's, it's about $120 a month deductible for a $1,200 a month plan. That's huge factor, as is some of the other little tidbits. It's been a great thread, so far.

And yes, frivolous spending is definitely a factor. It's even worse if you've never made the money that you make, now. I'm also afraid that I won't much learn my lesson, until I'm your age, at which time, it'll be too late for me to make any life changing decisions. I'm going to be heavily relying on my retirement pensions, if that sways in the wrong direction, at any given time, it could prove to be disastrous.
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      11-23-2022, 12:22 PM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limegrntaln View Post
Yes, that definitely makes more sense. I was simply attempting to fracture the nut. It didn't need a full crack, just a slight fracture into the understanding behind it.

That easily makes more sense, now. Medical is huge, and he's, it's about $120 a month deductible for a $1,200 a month plan. That's huge factor, as is some of the other little tidbits. It's been a great thread, so far.
I get it, I was also trying to crack the nut on the gent that posted he bought a 2023 M850i and only made $40K per year. There's always more to the story!

To give you an idea on healthcare costs, I pay approxiamtely $2K a month with a $7500 deductible right now. Each year it goes up 15-20%. If I retire at 60, I'm likely looking at a $30K bill each year til age 65 just for mediocare helthcare!

I remember being in my early working years thinking $1M would be unattainable and plenty to retire. Now the number is a minimum of $2M.

Word to the wise, lifestyle creep is a challenge. Do your level best to off avoid the urge to automatically increase spending when your income increases. Easier said than done when that shiny red car with the prancing horse on it drives off with that beautiful exhaust note!

I've always wanted a Ferrari so what I did was rent one. It was cool, very cool! Check mark off the bucket list and saved me a boatload of money.

Last edited by fmzip; 11-23-2022 at 12:27 PM..
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      11-24-2022, 12:35 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by fmzip View Post
Now this makes sense! I was wondering if you might have been some young guys living too far beyond their means. Good for you on your retirement. I’m 56 so I am thinking this will be my last splurge before retirement. I paid cash for mine as well. Interestingly enough, I have solar panels too. Those are paid for as well.

As retirement approaches, always trying to find ways to lower overall expenses! Sounds like you have a really good grasp on things. OT questions, why too much income on the first year of retirement that drove up the Medicare payment? How low income do you need to be to pay zero? If I could only figure out low healthcare costs, I’d love to retire before 65
Your annual income Your monthly premium in 2022
Individuals Couples
Equal to or below $91,000 Equal to or below $182,000 $170.10
$91,001 -$114,000 $182,001 – $228,000 $238.10
$114,001 – $142,000 $228,001 – $284,000 $340.20
$142,001 – $170,000 $284,001 – $340,000 $442.30
$170,001 – $499,999 $340,001 – $749,999 $544.30
$500,000 and above $750,000 and above $578.30
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      11-24-2022, 02:05 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Ttuite View Post
Your annual income Your monthly premium in 2022
Individuals Couples
Equal to or below $91,000 Equal to or below $182,000 $170.10
$91,001 -$114,000 $182,001 – $228,000 $238.10
$114,001 – $142,000 $228,001 – $284,000 $340.20
$142,001 – $170,000 $284,001 – $340,000 $442.30
$170,001 – $499,999 $340,001 – $749,999 $544.30
$500,000 and above $750,000 and above $578.30
To clarify above, that's only the premium for Part B of Medicare. You'll also have to add a Medicare Supplement plan plus prescription drug coverage and most likely vision, dental and hearing coverage or a Medicare Advantage Plan ( which may or may not have a premium, but you'll still have co-pays and deductibles. It. Never. Ends!

Some of my clients that did well and had large IRAs had to take out large Required Minimum Distributions when they reached 70 (now 72). It dumped them into a much higher tax bracket, made more of their social security become taxable and also put them deep into the chart above that eroded a large portion of their social security check due to the higher Part B premiums.

Some times you wonder why you just don't spend all your money early on. You give up a lot of fun while you save and save for retirement, you're not a burden on society, and then you get blasted when you want to spend it.

It makes you want to go screaming into the night.
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      11-24-2022, 08:11 PM   #383
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[QUOTE=fmzip;29573366]
To give you an idea on healthcare costs, I pay approxiamtely $2K a month with a $7500 deductible right now. Each year it goes up 15-20%. If I retire at 60, I'm likely looking at a $30K bill each year til age 65 just for mediocare healthcare!

See my comment below:

You should look at one of the health cost sharing organizations. My wife and i are small business owners and absolutely love our provider.

We have a 1000 annual deductible and pay about 550/month. You can use any doctor you want. All you have to do is ask for the self pay discount, pay it yourself and then file for reimbursement.

This is not an ad and we have no affiliation other then 5 year members. PM me if you want a referral to the one we use.
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      11-25-2022, 12:01 AM   #384
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[QUOTE=SpeedyATL;29577740]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmzip View Post
To give you an idea on healthcare costs, I pay approxiamtely $2K a month with a $7500 deductible right now. Each year it goes up 15-20%. If I retire at 60, I'm likely looking at a $30K bill each year til age 65 just for mediocare healthcare!

See my comment below:

You should look at one of the health cost sharing organizations. My wife and i are small business owners and absolutely love our provider.

We have a 1000 annual deductible and pay about 550/month. You can use any doctor you want. All you have to do is ask for the self pay discount, pay it yourself and then file for reimbursement.

This is not an ad and we have no affiliation other then 5 year members. PM me if you want a referral to the one we use.
Thanks, I have looked into them before. The issue with HCS like healthcare minitries etc, they aren’t legally bound to pay claims. Unlike insurance companies, they also don't have to follow the Affordable Care Act guidelines nor are they regulated by state or federal agencies. You could find yourself in a real costly situation if they decide not to pay your bills. Not worth the risk in my opinion particularly if something catastrophic were to happen.
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      11-25-2022, 07:44 AM   #385
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While what you suggest might be true from a legal perspective, the larger ones have hundreds of thousands of members and our coverage is unlimited. So if they failed to pay, their members would run for the exits.

The one we are with has been around since 1981 so if they had a history of not paying, we'd know. We've had a few claims (not large, about 6-12k) and had a much better experience with them than we had with BCBS and zero push back.

To each his own, but if you just put the 1500/mon savings in your pocket, you are almost 18k ahead each year, not to mention the deductible difference. That adds up pretty quickly.

I bet $1500/mon could lease a nice m3/4 or m850, even in these crappy leasing times....
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      11-25-2022, 11:14 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbimmer View Post
To clarify above, that's only the premium for Part B of Medicare. You'll also have to add a Medicare Supplement plan plus prescription drug coverage and most likely vision, dental and hearing coverage or a Medicare Advantage Plan ( which may or may not have a premium, but you'll still have co-pays and deductibles. It. Never. Ends!

Some of my clients that did well and had large IRAs had to take out large Required Minimum Distributions when they reached 70 (now 72). It dumped them into a much higher tax bracket, made more of their social security become taxable and also put them deep into the chart above that eroded a large portion of their social security check due to the higher Part B premiums.

Some times you wonder why you just don't spend all your money early on. You give up a lot of fun while you save and save for retirement, you're not a burden on society, and then you get blasted when you want to spend it.

It makes you want to go screaming into the night.
Yes, that is how I got to my 759.00 number. Sorry for the hijack but a question if anyone knows.

I have a AARP United Healthcare HMO Medicare Advantage plan that includes eye and dental and a quarterly $250.00 healthcare supplement bonus (band-aides, vitamins, etc) I had a reverse shoulder replacement and arthroscopic knee repair this year and it cost me $125.00 for each. Most medications are free, (narcotics from surgery) but I don’t take anything serious.
Specialist office visits are $20.00.

This plan costs me nothing per month.

Finally the question:

This plan seems too good to be true. What can go wrong having this plan over either a PPO or standard Medicare supplement.
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      11-26-2022, 09:00 AM   #387
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Related question to the OP:

What rules of thumb do people use when determining how much you can spend on a new/used car.

I'm as frugal as the day is long but am trying to convince myself that i can easily afford my target preferred car and at 54 it's time to drive what i want, not what my cheap ass dictates.....

The one i heard not too long ago that stuck with me is that the purchase price of all vehicles in your garage should add up to be no more than half your annual income....
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      11-26-2022, 05:11 PM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyATL View Post
Related question to the OP:

What rules of thumb do people use when determining how much you can spend on a new/used car.

I'm as frugal as the day is long but am trying to convince myself that i can easily afford my target preferred car and at 54 it's time to drive what i want, not what my cheap ass dictates.....

The one i heard not too long ago that stuck with me is that the purchase price of all vehicles in your garage should add up to be no more than half your annual income....
The most common by far you will find on the internet and what everyone hails as the "gold standard" is the 20/4/10 rule

1.) Atleast 20% down payment on car
2.) No more than 4 years car loan
3.) Total monthly cost of vehicle (payment, insurance, gas, and repairs) is no more than 10% of monthly income

It's not a bad rule if you are trying to be frugal and/or are already in a precarious situation financially, but after that, it kind of falls off.

The average latest US new car price sale is 48,000. The average latest US used car price sale is 33,000.

Those numbers say most Americans aren't giving a crap about the 20/4/10 rule, unless suddenly now everyone is making 200,000+, which most are not.

If everyone followed the 20/4/10 rule, or even a large minority, you'd see a LOT less fancy SUVs and trucks on the road and a LOT more Honda civics.

The rule tries to make a generic guideline based on assuming other expenses, assuming the need to prioritize retirement savings over buying a car, and to dissuade buying high price vehicles due to it being a depreciating asset.

It's not a bad rule, but it's not really a rule, it's a commonly suggested generic financial guidance, based on buying cars being really bad financial investments due to depreciation. Why this matters is many people don't have a big emergency savings, so if things go south, with car depreciation, it's REALLY easy to end up upside down on the car.

A guideline to consider, but not a rule if you know what you are doing.
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      11-26-2022, 05:13 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyATL View Post
Related question to the OP:

What rules of thumb do people use when determining how much you can spend on a new/used car.

I'm as frugal as the day is long but am trying to convince myself that i can easily afford my target preferred car and at 54 it's time to drive what i want, not what my cheap ass dictates.....

The one i heard not too long ago that stuck with me is that the purchase price of all vehicles in your garage should add up to be no more than half your annual income....
The most common by far you will find on the internet and what everyone hails as the "gold standard" is the 20/4/10 rule

1.) Atleast 20% down payment on car
2.) No more than 4 years car loan
3.) Total monthly cost of vehicle (payment, insurance, gas, and repairs) is no more than 10% of monthly income

It's not a bad rule if you are trying to be frugal and/or are already in a precarious situation financially, but after that, it kind of falls off.

The average latest US new car price sale is 48,000. The average latest US used car price sale is 33,000.

Those numbers say most Americans aren't giving a crap about the 20/4/10 rule, unless suddenly now everyone is making 200,000+, which most are not.

If everyone followed the 20/4/10 rule, or even a large minority, you'd see a LOT less fancy SUVs and trucks on the road and a LOT more Honda civics.

The rule tries to make a generic guideline based on assuming other expenses, assuming the need to prioritize retirement savings over buying a car, and to dissuade buying high price vehicles due to it being a depreciating asset.

It's not a bad rule, but it's not really a rule, it's a commonly suggested generic financial guidance, based on buying cars being really bad financial investments due to depreciation. Why this matters is many people don't have a big emergency savings, so if things go south, with car depreciation, it's REALLY easy to end up upside down on the car.

A guideline to consider, but not a rule if you know what you are doing.
The 20/4/10 rule is the one I am most familiar with as well.
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      11-27-2022, 11:51 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD View Post
The most common by far you will find on the internet and what everyone hails as the "gold standard" is the 20/4/10 rule

1.) Atleast 20% down payment on car
2.) No more than 4 years car loan
3.) Total monthly cost of vehicle (payment, insurance, gas, and repairs) is no more than 10% of monthly income

It's not a bad rule if you are trying to be frugal and/or are already in a precarious situation financially, but after that, it kind of falls off.

The average latest US new car price sale is 48,000. The average latest US used car price sale is 33,000.

Those numbers say most Americans aren't giving a crap about the 20/4/10 rule, unless suddenly now everyone is making 200,000+, which most are not.

If everyone followed the 20/4/10 rule, or even a large minority, you'd see a LOT less fancy SUVs and trucks on the road and a LOT more Honda civics.

The rule tries to make a generic guideline based on assuming other expenses, assuming the need to prioritize retirement savings over buying a car, and to dissuade buying high price vehicles due to it being a depreciating asset.

It's not a bad rule, but it's not really a rule, it's a commonly suggested generic financial guidance, based on buying cars being really bad financial investments due to depreciation. Why this matters is many people don't have a big emergency savings, so if things go south, with car depreciation, it's REALLY easy to end up upside down on the car.

A guideline to consider, but not a rule if you know what you are doing.
The hard part is how many of the old guidelines were written in the past so they can be hard to apply to the current times. Interest rates are an important factor to consider.

I committed a cardinal sin under conventional guidance by going for a 6 year loan on my 530e when I purchased it. A long loan is against this guidance, but interest rates were ~2%. Inflation has trended higher, but even prior to current high bumps in the inflation rate the target long-term inflation rate is 2% and raises are over 2% for me annually. Meaning, paying the loan with tomorrow's money is cheaper than yesterday's money. In such a low rate environment longer loan terms and lower downpayment make the most financial sense. The "savings" was pushed into my 401k.

But individual risk profiles also need to be factored in. If you have risk of income drops then the conventional risk can still make sense as you're less likely to be holding onto a depreciating asset that may be valued lower than you estimates when you need to dump it...
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