M5 - MDM vs All Off

[E6 RDM]

Hi All

I compete in a 1989 Peugeot 205GTI at a hillclimb in the UK. Here is a video so you kind of know what it's like:

I've been competing a number of years and my road gong 205, with 130bhp achieves a time of 65.20 seconds. F1 type machines do around 43 seconds. I took my standard F10 M5 there and managed 62.55 seconds, which based on the size of the car isn't too bad.

Anyway - I first went out in full traction control on - it was totally awful, so intrusive, cutting power, then I had MDM on, excellent - tail out, and good fun.

However, what would it be like with all the things off??? How far does MDM let you go before it cuts in? I managed to spin the car once, as I got a wheel on the grass after a tail out moment. Luckily in a "safer" area! with MDM on.

Be interesting to hear from those who have used the M5 in a competitive environment.

[rgb129]

I wouldn't drive the car with it all off unless you truly know the car or are in an open space. Every now and then I go to an abandoned parking lot test and play. That rear will whip around you so fast and the margin of error is pretty small. It will be feeling good and you'll want to go just a bit more...then you are spinning. There just isn't enough feedback with this car to gauge it.

That's my .02.

[E6 RDM]

Originally Posted by rgb129

I wouldn't drive the car with it all off unless you truly know the car or are in an open space. Every now and then I go to an abandoned parking lot test and play. That rear will whip around you so fast and the margin of error is pretty small. It will be feeling good and you'll want to go just a bit more...then you are spinning. There just isn't enough feedback with this car to gauge it.

That's my .02.

Thats my fear - testing it out with all off, and getting a tank slapper on - not ideal with oncoming traffic....

Out of interest, how predictable is the car under full acceleration from standstill, dry road, with traction off? I've seen some spectacular fails on YouTube but these appear to be arsing around/one hand on wheel/on power too soon after corner etc...

[rgb129]

Originally Posted by E6 RDM

Thats my fear - testing it out with all off, and getting a tank slapper on - not ideal with oncoming traffic....

Out of interest, how predictable is the car under full acceleration from standstill, dry road, with traction off? I've seen some spectacular fails on YouTube but these appear to be arsing around/one hand on wheel/on power too soon after corner etc...

I haven't tried to do that...it would be hard. Once you break traction, it is hard to get it back. I don't like buying tires on a monthly basis so I avoid lighting them up all the time. I went through my first set of rears in less than 6 months and I wasn't all that bad with them...ok, maybe a little.

[M eyedoc]

First thing to realize: All nannies off means All Nannies Off! There is no safety net. MDM is still relatively restrictive but is there to save you if you start to hang yourself. But remember: All off is All off. I ran in MDM mode the first time on the track with mine (was also in the rain on a new to me track 1 week after purchasing the car). Part way through the second event I was going through the rear brakes and realized I would not get through the weekend keeping the traction control on. Therefore, time to learn how to drive on my own... Wow, what a difference! I will promise you, it transforms into a completely different car!! It becomes incredibly predictable and does exactly what an M car should do. Violently fast but very comfortable to slide through the high speed turns. But ALWAYS remember: With great power comes great responsibility. The car will give you all the needed feedback, you will just have to learn how to listen and respond. Granted, it will no longer be a car you can just mash the petals. But, I promise you, once you learn to do it, there will be no going back! Only things it really need are camber plates in the front and a square setup for tires to reduce the understeer to become completely amazing. Also keep in mind, the formula car in your video does not have traction control either, and is actually pretty close to being the same power to weight ratio. Hope this helps.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by M eyedoc

Only things it really need are camber plates in the front and a square setup for tires to reduce the understeer to become completely amazing.

Camber plates are for MacPherson strut suspension, not for double a arm suspension. A more easily variable camber adjustment would be a good thing for the front suspension on the M5 though.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by rgb129

I wouldn't drive the car with it all off unless you truly know the car or are in an open space. Every now and then I go to an abandoned parking lot test and play. That rear will whip around you so fast and the margin of error is pretty small. It will be feeling good and you'll want to go just a bit more...then you are spinning. There just isn't enough feedback with this car to gauge it.

That's my .02.

I think the M5 is a rather good drift machine, you just need more time with it to get the feel. But yes, the back does come around very fast if you are not quick with your hands and throttle control.

[brad850csi]

11:20

While I don't speak German I know that gang = gear. I'm guessing the guy is saying change up to the next gear.

[technician117]

Originally Posted by M eyedoc

First thing to realize: All nannies off means All Nannies Off! There is no safety net. MDM is still relatively restrictive but is there to save you if you start to hang yourself. But remember: All off is All off. I ran in MDM mode the first time on the track with mine (was also in the rain on a new to me track 1 week after purchasing the car). Part way through the second event I was going through the rear brakes and realized I would not get through the weekend keeping the traction control on. Therefore, time to learn how to drive on my own... Wow, what a difference! I will promise you, it transforms into a completely different car!! It becomes incredibly predictable and does exactly what an M car should do. Violently fast but very comfortable to slide through the high speed turns. But ALWAYS remember: With great power comes great responsibility. The car will give you all the needed feedback, you will just have to learn how to listen and respond. Granted, it will no longer be a car you can just mash the petals. But, I promise you, once you learn to do it, there will be no going back! Only things it really need are camber plates in the front and a square setup for tires to reduce the understeer to become completely amazing. Also keep in mind, the formula car in your video does not have traction control either, and is actually pretty close to being the same power to weight ratio. Hope this helps.

I ditto this. You just have to learn the car in a safe environment. From what I've read, and somewhat experienced, the F10 is harder to find the limits with, but you still can! It just takes more time and effort. This is why I love my E39 so much. Yeah I had to learn where the limits are, but it didn't take long. From there I further and further honed my abilities at the limit and now it is so predictable and control-able and that it's almost funny.

Good luck!

[finlandm5f10]

99% all off. Then you feel the car

[RAFiK - BMWClubUAE]

DSC OFF buddy, it'll give you a phenomenal experience... and of course, one hell of a beast to keep straight.

I raced an E63s 4-Matic with both modes. MDM held my car and gave the E63s an advantage on my car, but when I raced him using DSC OFF I was able to beat it by 2 cars.

[allmotor_2000]

DSC OFF but you have to be able to control the power. Even with stock cars it can be a painful lesson. Any mods and the car is very easy to lose control of...

MDM mode will let the wiggle a bit but it will correct quickly.