02-28-2024, 11:48 AM | #67 |
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Good question. I think it will but will take time before it does.
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02-28-2024, 11:50 AM | #68 |
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02-28-2024, 12:10 PM | #69 |
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Are you saying the F80, F87, F90 are Buicks? They are all far more hardcore than any of their predecessors (stiffer and even subframes bolted to chassis). The X3 and X5 got miles better in every single way as well... i could argue the current M340i is the best 3 yet... i cannot defend the 5 and 7 nor any of the EVs but those are becoming more and more niche cars.
I'll take the M340i w its EPS and virtually flawless reliability with the B58, ZF8, stiffest chassis of any 3 ever and an overall better vehicle than the complete honk that was the E46 or E90... worst quality cars ever built w the least reliable N54, N55 ever... along w the utterly subpar interior build quality of the E46 and its subframe issues... i can only think of 2 BMWs from the earlier 2000s that I would want which are the E92 M3 (only because V8)and E46 M3 in Manual (only because light)... you can keep the non mcars lol. I'll take today's cars all day.
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02-28-2024, 12:15 PM | #70 | |
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~ 24 X3 M40 ~ Prior BMW's - Too many to list here (27) |
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02-28-2024, 12:26 PM | #71 | |
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It's pretty easy to believe BMW has a higher score based on this type of criteria. Consumer Reports is evaluating how well the car performs for everyday driving, and that is what the road-test score represents. It's not meant to solely gauge performance or how fun a car is to drive. |
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02-28-2024, 12:26 PM | #72 | |
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02-28-2024, 12:35 PM | #73 |
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Sure but plenty of issues detailed in these forums on older BMW's. Have you heard of BMW's Customer care package which was the result of a lawsuit by BMW owners againts BMW? Consider yourself as not the norm.
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02-28-2024, 12:37 PM | #74 | |
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After having a bunch of BMWs, I got a 2022 E450. I've had 5 unscheduled services visits for various items in less than 1 year. One of the issues is a thumping sound feel. The first 3 times I brought it in, I asked them to address this and they said there was nothing wrong. The 4th time, they acknowledge something was off, but didn't have time to diagnose it because they let the car sit on the lot for 2 weeks before looking at it, and I had to leave for a trip. Now the car is currently at another dealer who also acknowledged the problem, and the car has been there for 2.5 weeks while they supposedly wait for a special tool to diagnose it because their standard checks turned up nothing. Every visit to Mercedes has resulted in the car being there for a minimum of 2 weeks, sometimes the issues would be fixed, other times they tell me the items were fixed only to find they weren't...(driver seat was creaking, they had to replace a bracket, broke massage seat. Refused to take car home until they fix massage seat. They call me a week later telling me the seat works. Drive to dealer, sit in car, turn on massage and it's not working. They have it for another week to fix). This has happened with 5 services visits to 4 separate dealers...so Mercedes clearly has a serious quality control issue, and poor dealer network. I've had a lot of BMWs and they've been mostly reliable. My experience with BMW dealers has been night and day better than the experience I have had with Mercedes. I've found BMW services centers to be pretty decent for a dealer, and very professional |
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02-28-2024, 12:55 PM | #75 | |
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I do not stress the engine and drivetrain for extended periods of time, but it sure is great to have all that capability when you need to pass other vehichles. I hope that the X5 M60i that I'am about to pick up next week, turns out as reliable as my S6 and holds mods as well. It will surely be a great upgrade even in stock form from our current family trip SUV, a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 4X4, I'll keep it for offroad trips, because I dot want to scratch the X5s paint. ![]() |
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02-28-2024, 02:12 PM | #76 | |
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Also, the saying is "hunk of junk." Hunk, as in a big lump. A honk is a sound. |
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02-28-2024, 02:16 PM | #77 |
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Of course... because 95% of them are small displacement turbo diesels that do 0-60 in 9 seconds... and are driven primarily on hwys from town to town... upwards of 200-300k miles. They are also very heavily maintained because your labor costs to do so are fractions of what they are here in the US... most have turbo rebuilds or replacements done for cheap.
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02-28-2024, 02:25 PM | #78 | |
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If anything, you save so much on purchase, that the maintenance costs break out even vs. German cars. My 540 was over 90k new, and it is a mid-spec car. Head to Scandanavia (for example) and newish BMWs are the preserve of the rich only. Europe ain't cheap for nice cars. |
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02-28-2024, 03:06 PM | #79 |
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I sat in one at the dealership today, waiting on my M4 to be serviced and it just feels so awkward inside the car is huge on the outside but the inside you feel a lot more cocooned. What I don’t like and I have not liked this. In any of the new BMWs is the weird screen sitting behind the steering wheel. It just feels strange.
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02-28-2024, 03:26 PM | #80 | |
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02-28-2024, 09:42 PM | #81 |
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I have always wanted to buy an AMG car and have test driven the A45s, C63s, E63s a couple of times each at different years and the suspension has ruined it every single time, they are all just impossible to use as daily cars, Audi feels way too cheap and macdonaldy type, so naturally BMW has found its way among the discerned as it is reliable, stable and relatively open source with all its software allowing for a gazillion of amendments and the only really proper ecosystem for aftermarket parts.
BMW stock suspension is pretty bad also but not in such an impossible manner as the AMG range and more importantly you can change it with many more different options than just KW's(also very stiff) or same such but like Tractive, Intrax, Nitron, MCS and this same thing applies to every other relevant part like wheels, aero, turbos, brakes, etc. I have tried going to Mercedes and Audi but there seems to be a rejection going on. The Audi's dealers I paid the whole car to, would not honour deposit terms on warranty terms the first time I tried to buy an RS4 so I walked out and took the money back and the second time I bought one again they crashed it at one of the parking's bollards the day before handover as the sales guy took it from the parking lot into the garage for a wash and basic check basically. That was the Matt Watson 6-month tester*. I just walked out of the sale again when they showed me pics of the rear wing torn like a slice of pie and the funny part is that they would not even budge on the price. So both times burned by the Audi dealer and for good reason as I have driven several rs4's and rs6's since and I prefer the M cars by a large margin. The Audi cars are a bit old granda types of cars like the 80 used to carry all the grandkids. Good engines but always something missing from the soup, either a leather dashboard or good suspension or gearbox or aftermarket modifiability. The Mercedes it has always been the AMG car itself rejecting bodies after a few miles. Getting back-tired during test-drives? I have driven the M3 for 10-12 hours straight and several other long trips in Europe with it and the F10 M5 since 2015 and hours on the track without any back issues. I drive the AMGs slowly for an hour and I'm in physical back pain the next day. Like seriously? how is mercedes continuing this folly totally unhinged? Over more than one and two generations of cars. Edit:*This one: Last edited by noemon; 02-29-2024 at 03:53 PM.. |
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02-29-2024, 07:13 AM | #82 | |
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I have three (3) non-M cars, so you are correct, I have kept them.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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02-29-2024, 07:26 AM | #83 | |
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02-29-2024, 02:08 PM | #84 | |
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There’s a reason why E90s and F30s are worth practically the same on the used market. It’s because most F30s pre-LCI are junk. Not worth the BMW roundel. Exception might be a correctly-optioned F30 335i. But how awful is it that you had to option out an F30 just to get it to somewhat feel like a BMW? The N20 is better off being used as an anchor for a ship, the F30s chassis is too floaty, etc. The LCI fixed many of these issues with the added chassis reinforcements, Bxx motors, and software updates to the steering, but it’s telling that it took BMW nearly 8 years to fix the F30. The F30 is much like the W210 was for Mercedes, compared to the W124. When you have near-perfection, really the only way to go is downhill. The G20 was a much better effort than the F30, thank goodness. The E90 is hardly ancient. It was ahead of it’s time, and still gets decent mileage, handles extremely well (again, better than its successor), has classic looks, and is extremely reliable (even the N54 isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. I should know, I owned one until 150K miles). The G chassis is nice, but quite synthetic. Compared to other contemporaries, it may be a “drivers car,” but let’s not kid ourselves, an E90 is still a better sports sedan than an F30 or a G20. Now is it a better luxury sedan? Well that’s debatable, and given the delta in tech, probably not. But if one wanted a luxury sedan, wouldn’t you go for something with a 3-pointed star on the grill? Put another way, it’s an asset for an F30 or G20 to have active cruise and lane departure — it’s the kind of car you want to drive itself at times. An E90? Way too much fun to have a computer drive for you! I have access to a 997.2. The E90s steering is right on par with the 997. An F30 or G20? No. Not even close. This all to say that a driver-oriented BMW is no longer the 3er - the Z4 and the 2er are really the last two model lines that really embrace the BMW ethos. Not saying that the rest of the lineup isn't better than their competitors, but it’s a shame to see how much further ahead BMW used to be with respect to the competition. Last edited by Hoody007; 02-29-2024 at 02:15 PM.. |
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02-29-2024, 02:13 PM | #85 | |
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If ancient tech means something without iDrive and driver aids, yup, that's me. I bought ultimate driving machines. I don't need the car to tell me there's a car in the mirror. Lol. |
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02-29-2024, 02:49 PM | #86 | |
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I owned 3 E series cars... 2 x 335i and 1 x 135i... so I had numerous N54s and N55s in my stable... i will tell you right now that at the time they were the finest sporty sedans and coupes on earth... but that was a whopping 15 years ago now and things have drastically changed. First off - the reliability of those cars was absolutely horrid... the N54 is indeed as bad as people say, I have experience to back that up. Second - the suspension tied to those first gen runflats was unbearable and the car had severe traction issues with that junk rear end and lack of a true rear limited slip diff. It was nearly impossible to throw into a slide for that reason... the steering was very solid in terms of feel but the non M racks were also incredibly slow. The non M f series was made softer so it was even worse... but at the time the Lci 340i came around, it was a better car in every way. Now, once we get into the G series everything is on another level... the M340i is stiffer, faster, more reliable and does everything better. You may argue its heavier and steering is less involving but the reality is that it will mop the older cars around any track or autocross you choose because the chassis is that much better.
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