BMW F10 M5 Coilover Options???

[JNoSol]

Hello M5'ers,

Sorry if this is a duplicate question. I tried Google and searched through 10 pages here before I post.

Newbie to the M5, I really love the handling and characteristic of the M5. However, I'm not loving the wheel gap (photo below). Springs upgrade isn't an option for me, I would never ruin an M's fine tuned suspension with Springs (especially on a six figure car). If you read through any Springs upgrade reviews, follow-up with them a year or two later and most of them switch to full coilovers. The bouncy ride and poor handling of Springs upgrade get old quick. The reason is OEM struts can't keep up with the heavier spring rate, so the shock valves will eventually go out (replacement OEM struts will set you back $3k a set). I've always been told to do it right the first time or don't do it at all.

With that said, the F10 M5 has been in the market for awhile now. However, I only see 3 coilover options: K&W V3, K&W Clubsport, and CKS Suspension? Am I missing anything else?

You really can't go wrong with K&W V3s. K&W Clubsport is too aggressive for street driving (linear spring rate and noisy camber plates). CKS is an inexpensive option, but the ride is bouncy even with Swift springs. Do we know if Bilstein will make the PSS10 available or anything else? I hate being cornered to one option.

Thanks for your help. -Jimmy

[Hellrot Sachin]

also interested. I feel the same. What are your thoughts on the Dinan coilovers. Admittedly, they are simply a height-adjustable spring, but I don't know if they deal better with the stock dampener rebound.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by Hellrot Sachin

also interested. I feel the same. What are your thoughts on the Dinan coilovers. Admittedly, they are simply a height-adjustable spring, but I don't know if they deal better with the stock dampener rebound.

Dinan and K&W both offer HAS kit. They ride and perform just as worst as the spring upgrades, but they allow you to adjust the height using OEM struts. Many who used HAS kit still report bouncy rides and spring binding noise. It's best to get full coilovers since the struts are properly valved for the heavier spring rate.

I guess K&W V3 it is. By the way, don't waste your money on the EDC delete module. Just code EDC off and unplug the EDC.

[apexlocator]

I have noticed also that kw v3 are the most viable option from an economical and performance standpoint.

There's also custom motons if you've got the deep pockets for it.

[evilb]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Dinan and K&W both offer HAS kit. They ride and perform just as worst as the spring upgrades, but they allow you to adjust the height using OEM struts. Many who used HAS kit still report bouncy rides and spring binding noise. It's best to get full coilovers since the struts are properly valved for the heavier spring rate.

I guess K&W V3 it is. By the way, don't waste your money on the EDC delete module. Just code EDC off and unplug the EDC.

I would like to add that it's likely the "bounciness" of the KW HAS and Dinan setups is a direct result of how low you go. Dialing in the ride height to ride quality ratio is key.

That being said, mine is currently sitting a bit too low for my tastes, and I have less than an index finger between the tire and fender front/rear. Even at that height, I wouldn't call the ride bouncy, just more firm. I have also not gotten any spring binding noise, but have heard the "knocking" sound from the fronts a few times when turning at slow speeds.

Personally it's hard to justify the added cost for the V3's at this point. If I ever need a strut/shock replacement, though, that's what I'll switch to.

Just wanted to add my $0.02. Good luck! Keep us posted.

Brad

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

I have noticed also that kw v3 are the most viable option from an economical and performance standpoint.

There's also custom motons if you've got the deep pockets for it.

No Motons for me, I can't justify $10k. K&W V3 discounted is around $2,500 new. It's not terrible, but I was hoping Bilstein makes the PSS10 for our cars. I know Bilstein has the PSS10 for the F10 550i, too bad I don't think it would work on the M5. PSS10 is the perfect street and light track coilovers, they're around $2,100 list price. It rides really smooth.

Originally Posted by evilb

I would like to add that it's likely the "bounciness" of the KW HAS and Dinan setups is a direct result of how low you go. Dialing in the ride height to ride quality ratio is key.

That being said, mine is currently sitting a bit too low for my tastes, and I have less than an index finger between the tire and fender front/rear. Even at that height, I wouldn't call the ride bouncy, just more firm. I have also not gotten any spring binding noise, but have heard the "knocking" sound from the fronts a few times when turning at slow speeds.

Personally it's hard to justify the added cost for the V3's at this point. If I ever need a strut/shock replacement, though, that's what I'll switch to.

Just wanted to add my $0.02. Good luck! Keep us posted.

Brad

Thanks. I would pick K&W HAS over Dinan's any day of the week.

[apexlocator]

You must also note that 99% of f10 m5 owners will not seriously track a 4300 lb car....there's no market for full coilovers. I'm actually surprised kw makes the v3 for the f10 m5; v1 or v2 versions would be enough for most.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

You must also note that 99% of f10 m5 owners will not seriously track a 4300 lb car....there's no market for full coilovers. I'm actually surprised kw makes the v3 for the f10 m5; v1 or v2 versions would be enough for most.

Understood that most of M5 owners will not track. Regardless, heavier rate after market springs on OEM struts will ruin the OEM ride, shorten the OEM struts, and reduce handling. Despite what many thinks, lowering the car alone doesn't increase handling or decrease lap time. To go fast, the key is keep more tires in contact with the pavement at all time. If your springs are too aggressive for the shocks, there will be more bounce = tires not contacting the ground during hard damping. With full coilovers, you dial in the damping for the street and track to match the spring rates/height.

Plus, the OEM replacement struts is $3k a set. K&W V3s is $2500 street price and you can easily resell it for $2k used. If no other options are available, I guess I'll go V3s to lower the car.

K&W figured if you can afford a $100k performance car, you can justify $3k for the most crucial upgrade = suspension. But agreed, KWV1 or Bilstein PSS10 would fit the need of 90% of M5 owners. ($1500-2000)

[Tanin]

I wanted coil-overs and looked at Dinan and KW. Went with V3's and pleased with results.
If I can answer anything specific let me know.


Congrats on the M5!

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Understood that most of M5 owners will not track. Regardless, heavier rate after market springs on OEM struts will ruin the OEM ride, shorten the OEM struts, and reduce handling. Despite what many thinks, lowering the car alone doesn't increase handling or decrease lap time. To go fast, the key is keep more tires in contact with the pavement at all time. If your springs are too aggressive for the shocks, there will be more bounce = tires not contacting the ground during hard damping. With full coilovers, you dial in the damping for the street and track to match the spring rates/height.

Plus, the OEM replacement struts is $3k a set. K&W V3s is $2500 street price and you can easily resell it for $2k used. If no other options are available, I guess I'll go V3s to lower the car.

K&W figured if you can afford a $100k performance car, you can justify $3k for the most crucial upgrade = suspension. But agreed, KWV1 or Bilstein PSS10 would fit the need of 90% of M5 owners. ($1500-2000)

That's a very valuable info you gave here. I am also wanting to lower the car but I don't want to make the car ride stiffer and not comfy not even for 1%. Using the kW v3 is it possible to make the ride even better smoother and more comfy than stock?

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by HappyMan

That's a very valuable info you gave here. I am also wanting to lower the car but I don't want to make the car ride stiffer and not comfy not even for 1%. Using the kW v3 is it possible to make the ride even better smoother and more comfy than stock?

Tanin has V3 on his M5, he can answer your question. Based on my experience with K&W and BMWs in general, it rides much smoother than stock in soft damping setting. The reason is K&W street coilovers use progressive springs paired with adjustable struts that match the spring rate perfectly. If you do find the K&W V3 springs too harse (which I doubt anyone would), you can work with K&W Europe to swap out springs.

[Sean@PSI]

KWs are a great option and price point for a street car, we do them on the F10 all the time.

MOTONs are not $10K but are overkill for street use.

[Tanin]

Originally Posted by HappyMan

That's a very valuable info you gave here. I am also wanting to lower the car but I don't want to make the car ride stiffer and not comfy not even for 1%. Using the kW v3 is it possible to make the ride even better smoother and more comfy than stock?

My car is lowered with (F) 285/30-20 (R) 305/30-20 and I find the V3's ride quality as good if not better than stock. Compression and rebound damping blows away OEM. For a baseline with stock CP suspension I was 95% Sport+ / 5% Sport.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by Tanin

My car is lowered with (F) 285/30-20 (R) 305/30-20 and I find the V3's ride quality as good if not better than stock. Compression and rebound damping blows away OEM. For a baseline with stock CP suspension I was 95% Sport+ / 5% Sport.

Beautiful M5. Love the wheels too.

[evilb]

Originally Posted by Tanin

My car is lowered with (F) 285/30-20 (R) 305/30-20 and I find the V3's ride quality as good if not better than stock. Compression and rebound damping blows away OEM. For a baseline with stock CP suspension I was 95% Sport+ / 5% Sport.

Not to thread jack... Those wheels do look phenomenal. Brand, sizes??

[apexlocator]

Originally Posted by Tanin

I wanted coil-overs and looked at Dinan and KW. Went with V3's and pleased with results.
If I can answer anything specific let me know.


Congrats on the M5!

Did you corner balance your car? It'll help a lot.

[apexlocator]

Originally Posted by evilb

Not to thread jack... Those wheels do look phenomenal. Brand, sizes??

+1....good combo

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by evilb

Not to thread jack... Those wheels do look phenomenal. Brand, sizes??

After extensive research, I have finally stumbled upon this thread. Those are in fact the Dinan 20" wheels in silver. This picture is probably the only picture on the entire internet of the Dinan wheels in SILVER mounted on an F10 M5. If you try to Google or search for a picture of the Dinan Wheels in Silver you will not find any pictures what so ever. This picture in this thread won't show up in search results. Part of the reason is that there are so few people who have bought the Dinan Wheels for the F10 M5. Another reason is that of those who actually bought the wheels most people get them in Black and lastly of those tiny few people who bought the Dinan wheels in Silver, nobody ever took pictures of them mounted on their F10 M5.

When he mentioned the tire sizes, this also confirmed that these are the Dinan wheels. Yes it's true that Dinan doesn't actually design these wheels they just have another wheel manufacturer make them with Dinan specific offsets, but they are still one of THE best wheels that you can buy for the F10 M5 at the cheapest price. These wheels drop 4-5lbs off from the OEM 343M 20" wheels, they are forged monoblocks, so are strong, and with the Dinan offsets can accommodate 285mm front tires and 305mm rear tires. You aren't going to find another set of wheels that do all of those things for a mere 6k dollars brand new. Yes HRE and BBS make light wheels to any specifications too but they will charge you 8-15 grand depending on what it is, plus everybody has HRE's and BBS's so where's the exclusivity really? The Dinan wheels also happen to look pretty fantastic especially in silver, they really are the best kept secret for the F10 M5.

I'm glad I finally found a picture of these wheels mounted on an F10 in SILVER.

As far as the suspension goes I've been running the Eibachs now for a while and they are great, but I added the Comp Pack Sway bars and it has made the ride a little stiff but still livable. However, I recently added the Dinan Monoball front bushings to my control arms, and there is a noticeable increase in stiffness on the front suspension and now the ride is a little uncomfortable in both street driving and on the highway. I wonder if switching to KW's will improve the ride quality?

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

After extensive research, I have finally stumbled upon this thread. Those are in fact the Dinan 20" wheels in silver. This picture is probably the only picture on the entire internet of the Dinan wheels in SILVER mounted on an F10 M5. If you try to Google or search for a picture of the Dinan Wheels in Silver you will not find any pictures what so ever. This picture in this thread won't show up in search results. Part of the reason is that there are so few people who have bought the Dinan Wheels for the F10 M5. Another reason is that of those who actually bought the wheels most people get them in Black and lastly of those tiny few people who bought the Dinan wheels in Silver, nobody ever took pictures of them mounted on their F10 M5.

When he mentioned the tire sizes, this also confirmed that these are the Dinan wheels. Yes it's true that Dinan doesn't actually design these wheels they just have another wheel manufacturer make them with Dinan specific offsets, but they are still one of THE best wheels that you can buy for the F10 M5 at the cheapest price. These wheels drop 4-5lbs off from the OEM 343M 20" wheels, they are forged monoblocks, so are strong, and with the Dinan offsets can accommodate 285mm front tires and 305mm rear tires. You aren't going to find another set of wheels that do all of those things for a mere 6k dollars brand new. Yes HRE and BBS make light wheels to any specifications too but they will charge you 8-15 grand depending on what it is, plus everybody has HRE's and BBS's so where's the exclusivity really? The Dinan wheels also happen to look pretty fantastic especially in silver, they really are the best kept secret for the F10 M5.

I'm glad I finally found a picture of these wheels mounted on an F10 in SILVER.

As far as the suspension goes I've been running the Eibachs now for a while and they are great, but I added the Comp Pack Sway bars and it has made the ride a little stiff but still livable. However, I recently added the Dinan Monoball front bushings to my control arms, and there is a noticeable increase in stiffness on the front suspension and now the ride is a little uncomfortable in both street driving and on the highway. I wonder if switching to KW's will improve the ride quality?

They do look like Dinan's, but the center cap looks more like Vossen VPS306. Dinan might be re-branding Vossen.

http://www.carid.com/vossen-wheels/v...FQYIaQodKWgKOQ
http://www.dinancars.com/product/d75...ries&mid=1163/
http://www.dinancars.com/product/d75...-center-cap-2/

I'm going to pull the trigger on K&W V3 soon. Probably getting it from supremepower , good customer service and their buying power with K&W is pretty strong. I had very good experience with K&W, all the reviews were positive for our cars. It should be night and day difference from stock.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

They do look like Dinan's, but the center cap looks more like Vossen VPS306. Dinan might be re-branding Vossen.

http://www.carid.com/vossen-wheels/v...FQYIaQodKWgKOQ
http://www.dinancars.com/product/d75...ries&mid=1163/
http://www.dinancars.com/product/d75...-center-cap-2/

I'm going to pull the trigger on K&W V3 soon. Probably getting it from supremepower , good customer service and their buying power with K&W is pretty strong. I had very good experience with K&W, all the reviews were positive for our cars. It should be night and day difference from stock.

Yeah I forget who Dinan uses to make the wheels, but if you look closely at the Vossen designs the spokes don't reach all the way to the outer edge of the rim like they do on the Dinan wheels. So they can't be Vossens. I once heard that Dinan might use Forgedline, but can't confirm.

[RPiM5]

Never mind, I just confirmed that the Dinans are indeed Forgeline's but like I said are manufactured to Dinan specific offsets.

[JNoSol]

K&W Salt Spray Test: http://www.kw-suspension.co.uk/salt-spray-test.php

Pretty cool. I'm surprise Bilstein didn't hold up as well. We get salt here in when it snows, so this is important factor to making a decision.