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      10-20-2022, 12:57 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
The silence from the FIA says a lot.

I don't think anything will come of this. And next year people will cheat (more)
Alonso got to keep his 2nd title afterall so this is par for the course.
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      10-20-2022, 01:44 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
The silence from the FIA says a lot.

I don't think anything will come of this. And next year people will cheat (more)
Good. This cap has accomplished nothing.

It has brought zero parity. Williams is still last and the top three remain.
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      10-20-2022, 02:59 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Good. This cap has accomplished nothing.

It has brought zero parity. Williams is still last and the top three remain.
you expectations are shockingly absent of logic. the CAP is not an overnight change - the CAP will absolutely bring parity or at minimum close the gap substantially, but it will take years to transition.. Teams with billion dollar annual budgets for 10 years running are well ahead of teams that operated off a small fraction of that budget... The top teams accumulated in-house knowledge through extensive R&D provided by those big budgets and large labor pools gave them access to pull way ahead.

Do you really expect that a team that was trained and skilled will just "forget" everything they learned? or like Men In Black, are you looking for a little hand held tool to erase people's memory?

It's going to to take 5-10 years for this to happen as a slow burn, teams knowledge will fade over time, the more the rules, strategy, technology and sport changes the less existing knowledge base applies... and the harder it will be for teams to adapt within budget... immediate effect was MB dropping back and McLaren falling apart this season. Overall this is a long transition.

the CAP is absolutely the right direction... it doesn't mean that every team will be identical... some teams have better directors, hire better talent, have better strategy and execution... oh and not to mention, some drivers ARE actually better than other drivers... the CAP won't make Latifi drive like Max.

look at baseball - that is what you get with no cap.. a disaster of a sports that pay to win

Now look at football - (still a disaster of a sport) but the cab levels the playing field so there is more team diversity in playoffs, teams go through cycles of winning and loosing, superbowls are won by different teams and it's spread out. this truely means that "anything can happen on a Sunday" look at the Steelers, arguably the greatest team in NFL history - but they are current the worst team in league right now. 100% attributed to the CAP. by them sitting in last place it gives crap teams like the Browns & Bungles opportunity to win... and they are!

that's the effect of the CAP.

Last edited by kring; 10-20-2022 at 03:05 PM..
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      10-20-2022, 03:02 PM   #224
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•'FIA Update
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      10-20-2022, 03:37 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
•'FIA Update
Is the FIA going to release the information or will paying whatever fine keep the details confidential?

If the FIA isn't going to be fully transparent, the problem isn't going to fix itself and you'll have people breach the cap moving forward if the penalty is a fine and details kept under wraps.

The problem is everyone thinks this is a monetary thing, it isn't. Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes and even McLaren can pay whatever fines. If you want to introduce rules and regulations, you better be able to call out teams who breach these rules. If all it takes to move on is to pay a fine and keep details hidden, what's the point? Then we're just back at throwing money.
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      10-20-2022, 03:43 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by kring View Post
Now look at football - (still a disaster of a sport) but the cab levels the playing field so there is more team diversity in playoffs, teams go through cycles of winning and loosing, superbowls are won by different teams and it's spread out. this truely means that "anything can happen on a Sunday" look at the Steelers, arguably the greatest team in NFL history - but they are current the worst team in league right now. 100% attributed to the CAP. by them sitting in last place it gives crap teams like the Browns & Bungles opportunity to win... and they are!
I prefer football pre cap. This season is a prime example of the "parity" mentality ruining football.

F1 greatest years are past, no cap was the best and remain the best F1 will have ever been.

Cap clearly stopped teams like Ferrari and Merc this year from making greater strides in updates. The cap negatively changed the racing at the front of the pack. Comparing football and F1 is apples to oranges. We aren't talking about a team of 55 individuals, that are interchangeable at anytime. We are talking about a car that teams spend most of their budget pre season building. The cap handicaps slower teams from making many large updates to the car through out the season. They now have to wait to off season to make drastic and more expensive changes to the car.

Merc quite possibly could have abandoned their no sidepod design if budget wasn't an issue. I wouldn't doubt they were so invested in that concept, the cap most likely forced them to continue with it. Rumors are they are abandoning the no sidepods for next season.

Last edited by M3WC; 10-20-2022 at 04:06 PM..
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      10-20-2022, 03:44 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
Is the FIA going to release the information or will paying whatever fine keep the details confidential?

If the FIA isn't going to be fully transparent, the problem isn't going to fix itself and you'll have people breach the cap moving forward if the penalty is a fine and details kept under wraps.

The problem is everyone thinks this is a monetary thing, it isn't. Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes and even McLaren can pay whatever fines. If you want to introduce rules and regulations, you better be able to call out teams who breach these rules. If all it takes to move on is to pay a fine and keep details hidden, what's the point? Then we're just back at throwing money.
No fines were mentioned. Lets just sit back and see what happens.
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
•'FIA Update
My guess is no matter the FIA offer, RB will fight it. Listening to Horner, he and team thinks they did nothing wrong.

Last edited by M3WC; 10-20-2022 at 03:50 PM..
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      10-20-2022, 04:06 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
Is the FIA going to release the information or will paying whatever fine keep the details confidential?

If the FIA isn't going to be fully transparent, the problem isn't going to fix itself and you'll have people breach the cap moving forward if the penalty is a fine and details kept under wraps.

The problem is everyone thinks this is a monetary thing, it isn't. Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes and even McLaren can pay whatever fines. If you want to introduce rules and regulations, you better be able to call out teams who breach these rules. If all it takes to move on is to pay a fine and keep details hidden, what's the point? Then we're just back at throwing money.
Sure . The energy drink maker has money enough to pay whatever it takes with ease .

The FIA has a (big) problem !
In other words : Who leaked the confidental FIA (private) information ?
Some people are been payed very well by Wolff to get the inside FIA budget cap information !
As far as we know , Mercedes is already been tipped twice in this season ..
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      10-20-2022, 04:20 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
I prefer football pre cap. This season is a prime example of the "parity" mentality ruining football.
IMO it was free agency that destroyed the teams, because no one was loyal and it brought in the age of me me me, making everyone a special snowflake. and then two-faced Godhell as the worst comish the put the stake through the heart turning football into a joke. I too much preferred it decades ago, just not sure the cap did that twisting into what we’re left with.

I’m only a few years as F1 fan so I don’t know the F1 history but from my fresh eyes it is currently leaps and bounds ahead of any American sport. So much more professional and impressive.
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      10-20-2022, 08:38 PM   #230
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RB will get a slap on the wrist...and a "don't do that again.." IMO, do the crime, do the time, regardless of "how much" they went over, they went over plain and simple. The fact that they're (the FIA) making an offer to RB to accept a penalty is basically saying they're getting a slap on the wrist and that's it... yes I'm a Hamilton Fan but I'm not a "delusional" fan. I believe Wolff's poor pit strategy is just as much to blame for last year as Masi's stupid decision, but back to the main point. RB gets a slap, keeps the title, loses nothing. It SHOULD affect last year if you ask me, if it was MERC I'd say the same thing. It's like a bank robber taking 3 mil from a bank, getting caught, doing a month in jail but still getting to keep the money he stole. Did he really pay a penalty? Is RB REALLY losing anything if they kept the title despite breaking the rules.
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      10-20-2022, 09:57 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRod321 View Post
RB will get a slap on the wrist...and a "don't do that again.." IMO, do the crime, do the time, regardless of "how much" they went over, they went over plain and simple. The fact that they're (the FIA) making an offer to RB to accept a penalty is basically saying they're getting a slap on the wrist and that's it... yes I'm a Hamilton Fan but I'm not a "delusional" fan. I believe Wolff's poor pit strategy is just as much to blame for last year as Masi's stupid decision, but back to the main point. RB gets a slap, keeps the title, loses nothing. It SHOULD affect last year if you ask me, if it was MERC I'd say the same thing. It's like a bank robber taking 3 mil from a bank, getting caught, doing a month in jail but still getting to keep the money he stole. Did he really pay a penalty? Is RB REALLY losing anything if they kept the title despite breaking the rules.
You can't agree to a set of rules, soft budget limits, etc. and then get mad about the terms you agreed to after the fact.
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      10-20-2022, 10:22 PM   #232
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I agree wholeheartedly, but the fact still remains RB well walk away from this with s slap on the wrist of a penalty...
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      10-21-2022, 01:29 AM   #233
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Well apparently the FIA have now offered Red Bull an ABA what it’s contents is we don’t know yet.

Apparently Red Bull had a press conference in to talk to the media about it this morning but that has changed. Apparently they are in further discussions with the FIA over the ABA. For me either accept what they have offered or go to full appeal there shouldn’t be any negotiation.

RBR up to more tricks after the cheating?
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      10-21-2022, 08:21 AM   #234
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Sergio Perez has backed RBR insisting that the team kept to the $145M '21 limit budget and that criticisms from other teams,who have been easily led by this, have been hypocritical. This well may be that someone in gov body released false accounting info to a third party who then spread it around other teams and that person has 'stirred' hatred for the sole purpose of trying to diminish RB's achievements in the '21 season.
https://racingnews365.com/perez-defe...-will-come-out
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      10-21-2022, 08:58 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Sergio Perez has backed RBR insisting that the team kept to the $145M '21 limit budget and that criticisms from other teams,who have been easily led by this, have been hypocritical. This well may be that someone in gov body released false accounting info to a third party who then spread it around other teams and that person has 'stirred' hatred for the sole purpose of trying to diminish RB's achievements in the '21 season.
https://racingnews365.com/perez-defe...-will-come-out
They ended Mercedes dominance of 7 years of WDC. And they're about to end their WCC this year as well.


So since Toto had the information first and leaked it, this feels like someone is stirring shit up to make RBR look bad.

First the flexi floor (which didn't affect RBR but Ferrari lol) now the budget cap.

RBR is so confident in their accounting that they're willing to go to court for it, we'll see if they go to the adjudication panel.
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      10-21-2022, 09:50 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
They ended Mercedes dominance of 7 years of WDC. And they're about to end their WCC this year as well.


So since Toto had the information first and leaked it, this feels like someone is stirring shit up to make RBR look bad.

First the flexi floor (which didn't affect RBR but Ferrari lol) now the budget cap.

RBR is so confident in their accounting that they're willing to go to court for it, we'll see if they go to the adjudication panel.
Toto is so angry that he is not getting the unfair advantages of having years to develop and secretly test tires and God knows what else might have occurred to help MB from the FIA - we know inconsistent penalties, etc have done enough.

Last edited by HeelToeShift; 10-21-2022 at 10:18 AM..
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      10-21-2022, 10:44 AM   #237
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I first thought it best if RBR would opt for the ABA. Now I see that by rejecting the FIA's offer, the case would be heard by the cost cap panel and the full range of penalties would be on the table. Not only that, we would then get to see exactly where and by how much they exceeded the cap. Hope they fight it.
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      10-21-2022, 02:04 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by 3798j View Post
I first thought it best if RBR would opt for the ABA. Now I see that by rejecting the FIA's offer, the case would be heard by the cost cap panel and the full range of penalties would be on the table. Not only that, we would then get to see exactly where and by how much they exceeded the cap. Hope they fight it.
I just read that the submission was $4MM under and that after some ins and outs it came to 1.8MMM over.

https://racingnews365.com/red-bulls-...main-areas/amp

And look where the info came from:

“RacingNews365.com believes that this call was made by Shaila-Ann Rao - the FIA's interim secretary-general for motorsport - and former Mercedes general counsel.”

Both her and Toto should be removed from their respective positions immediately and each pay a fine equal to that of the breach for releasing private non-public info.

It does appear that changes to rules and some weird nuances are the reason for the “breach”. It seems even more minor based on the click down into the details and clear none of it was made with malicious intent. I’d say pass on anything and move on but for 2022+ they should close the gap and make sure any team, especially those who said they are going to breach on purpose (cough Toto cough) are handled with the strictest of penalties.

Last edited by HeelToeShift; 10-21-2022 at 02:25 PM..
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      10-21-2022, 02:13 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post

RBR is so confident in their accounting that they're willing to go to court for it, we'll see if they go to the adjudication panel.
one of the ways they can actually be correct is if they've always listed Newey as a contractor in their accounts for the last 10 years for example
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      10-21-2022, 10:07 PM   #240
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one of the ways they can actually be correct is if they've always listed Newey as a contractor in their accounts for the last 10 years for example
FIA has said that it's just a procedural breach ahahhaha

That means RBR didn't overspend and they'll just get away with a fine or warning.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co..._regarding_rb/
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      10-22-2022, 12:01 AM   #241
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LOL...no shot.

What a let down.


Quote:
Red Bull cost cap breach

Red Bull were initially well within the cost cap figure of $145 million by about $4 million before multiple factors combined to push them $1.8 million over, according to RacingNews365.com's sources.

These included

Internal costs related to gardening leave and sick pay - $800k
Catering costs - $1.2 million
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      10-22-2022, 12:04 AM   #242
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FIA has said that it's just a procedural breach ahahhaha
If true. Its all said and done.

Procedural breach is what Williams and Aston Martin got.
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