F1 2022: Brazilian GP - São Paulo (Nov 13)

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

True but he's been on Alpine and now he's going to Aston Martin.

Alpine certainly has made some significant steps to the front but I don't see either of those teams being contenders anytime soon. AM is probably less likely considering they're a customer team for engines.

I'd assume Alonso is worth the money for developing the car. If you've got mediocre/inexperienced drivers, it's hard to know whether the car is being driven at it's potential and where the weaknesses are.

Dunno how under or overrated that is. That’s why AM signed Vettel and unfortunately we see how well that went. Danny and Lando are excellent drivers and they’ve decidedly gone backwards. Of course MB to.

Alpine did get to the top of the mid pack heap this year though so that is obviously something. A lot of that is because they stopped having engines that would go boom during a race to I’m sure.

[MontyB1]

Alonso has been corrosive in just about every team he has been in. The fact that he did what he did at McLaren all those years ago for many make him almost a hate figure.

Ferrari, Renault and now Alpine its always someone else fault not his. Good driver but unfortunately with a huge chip on his shoulder IMO.

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by NYG

What does being white have to do with anything?

Damn, this is the problem with 2022. Had to go there. Why the fck does it have to be about race? Why can't it just be, 'oh hell no, you ain't talking shit about me son! Just for that, I'll just start a firestorm of speculative gossip because I love creating drama.' Mama bear just got pissed and showed zero logical restraint.

Have to admit, it's pretty hilarious he got caught. No reason a married father of 3 should be caught in that way. On a boat. Full of hot women. Just don't get caught, but damn he forgot it's 2022 and the iPhone 14 with its super amazing camera lenses, even in the dark. Oye Checo….

[g21]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

So we're all in agreement a racing incident, so WTF made the panel decide on a 5 second penalty to Max.

according to the stewards

PARAPHRASING

there is a certain racing line that all drivers take in that sequence of corners

when max went round the outside at the first corner and colliding with Lewis in the next corner, Lewis took the natural line, max went off the racing line and rejoined in an unnatural position

in the ensuing collision the greater burden of fault was placed on max due to the unnatural racing line

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by G99M5

according to the stewards
PARAPHRASING
there is a certain racing line that all drivers take in that sequence of corners
when max went round the outside at the first corner and colliding with Lewis in the next corner, Lewis took the natural line, max went off the racing line and rejoined in an unnatural position
in the ensuing collision the greater burden of fault was placed on max due to the unnatural racing line

"Natural racing line" is crucial for setting fast laptimes in F1 qualifications. But it sounds like becoming the new buzz word to criticize bold overtake maneuvers in F1 races ("he did not follow the natural racing line"). Sticking to virtual "natural racing line" corridors on a race track, instead of allowing F1 drivers to use the whole race track, risks to water down "Formula 1 racing" to "Formula 1 natural racing line snoozefests". Some virtual railway track or competitive super market queue.

Up next: "comfort zone". Say no longer "F1 driver X overtook F1 driver Y on the inside / around the outside", but say "F1 driver X violated the comfort zone of F1 driver Y. As a result F1 driver X gained an advantage at the expense of F1 driver Y who suffered moral distress from losing a track position".

OK, all kidding aside, perfectly aware that there are rules and there is abuse of rules - there are limits to what is reasonably acceptable. But more and more, teams and drivers try to influence race stewards with tactical onboard messages claiming that a violation/abuse was committed by a competing F1 driver, when in reality it just comes down to 'a racing incident' or simply to 'racing' itself.

Senna's view about "going for a gap" criticism: 08:08 - 08:29:

Example of gaining an advantage through abuse (Hamilton - 2021 Bahrain - final result: race win only 0.745s ahead of Verstappen, who had to give back P1 in lap 53/56 because of track limits violation):

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by G99M5

according to the stewards

PARAPHRASING

there is a certain racing line that all drivers take in that sequence of corners

when max went round the outside at the first corner and colliding with Lewis in the next corner, Lewis took the natural line, max went off the racing line and rejoined in an unnatural position

in the ensuing collision the greater burden of fault was placed on max due to the unnatural racing line

The other aspect that keeps getting forgotten regardless of the space is he carried way to much speed. He had to accelerate past LH off line into a corner with a far shallower angle. As the video shows he didn't keep the car on the tarmac and went off the side of the circuit. If and I stress if he had still kept on the black stuff I suspect the incident would be less clear.

MV said afterwards he just went for it he had less to lose, the two of them are as bad as each other and bring out the worst in each other. They obviously don't respect each other and are bitter rivals, its kind of what we want sometimes it would be boring if they both went opps sorry after you wouldn't it.

[M5Rick]

Checo denies he crashed on purpose in quali at Portier.
https://racingnews365.com/perez-flat...urt-verstappen

[M5Rick]

Max is sick and tired of clueless media who speculate until jaw lock.
https://racingnews365.com/verstappen...rs-controversy

[NYG]

While all the Max haters are busy exaggerating the Brazilian GP and forgetting about their LH44 doing the same exact thing.

How about Sebastian Vettel not letting Webber pass then saying he'll never be sorry for doing that?

[________]

Originally Posted by NYG

While all the Max haters are busy exaggerating the Brazilian GP and forgetting about their LH44 doing the same exact thing.

How about Sebastian Vettel not letting Webber pass then saying he'll never be sorry for doing that?

You guys crack me up… “then saying he’ll never be sorry for doing that” here, let me post a video where he says the exact opposite. OMG…

[Artemis]

Will Buxton (British Formula One digital presenter and reporter who works for Liberty Media):

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Onesie

You guys crack me up… “then saying he’ll never be sorry for doing that” here, let me post a video where he says the exact opposite. OMG…

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...g-8567923.html

Haven't been watching F1 long?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

While all the Max haters are busy exaggerating the Brazilian GP and forgetting about their LH44 doing the same exact thing.

How about Sebastian Vettel not letting Webber pass then saying he'll never be sorry for doing that?

They should get heat for that but we could post videos where LH let Bottas buy when he didn’t have everything locked up.

This is now, this incident. Did LH’s or Vettel’s parents go public with personal stuff to?

[Artemis]

Red Bull Racing press release of today.

"A Comment Following The Brazil GP
The Team has released the following comment.
Written by Oracle Red Bull Racing
Published on 17.11.2022 · 12:00 UTC+1
https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...zil-grand-prix
As a team we made some mistakes in Brazil. We had not envisaged the situation that unfolded on the last lap and we had not agreed a strategy for such a scenario before the race. Regretfully, Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position without all the necessary information being relayed. This put Max, who has always been an open and fair team player, in a compromising situation with little time to react which was not our intention. Following the race Max spoke openly and honestly, allowing for both drivers to resolve any outstanding issues or concerns. The Team accept Max's reasoning, the conversation was a personal matter which will remain private between the team and no further comment will be made.
The events that followed from a social media point of view are completely unacceptable. The abusive online behaviour towards Max, Checo, the Team and their respective families is shocking and saddening and unfortunately is something that we as a sport are having to address with depressing regularity. There is no place for it in racing or society as a whole and we need to do and be better. At the end of the day this is a sport, we are here to race. Death threats, hate mail, vitriol towards extended family members is deplorable. We value inclusion and want a safe space for everyone to work in and enjoy our sport. The abuse needs to stop."

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Will Buxton (British Formula One digital presenter and reporter who works for Liberty Media):

Maybe they shouldn’t throw stones (glass houses go both ways).

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Red Bull Racing press release of today.

"A Comment Following The Brazil GP
The Team has released the following comment.
Written by Oracle Red Bull Racing
Published on 17.11.2022 · 12:00 UTC+1
https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...zil-grand-prix
As a team we made some mistakes in Brazil. We had not envisaged the situation that unfolded on the last lap and we had not agreed a strategy for such a scenario before the race. Regretfully, Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position without all the necessary information being relayed. This put Max, who has always been an open and fair team player, in a compromising situation with little time to react which was not our intention. Following the race Max spoke openly and honestly, allowing for both drivers to resolve any outstanding issues or concerns. The Team accept Max's reasoning, the conversation was a personal matter which will remain private between the team and no further comment will be made.
The events that followed from a social media point of view are completely unacceptable. The abusive online behaviour towards Max, Checo, the Team and their respective families is shocking and saddening and unfortunately is something that we as a sport are having to address with depressing regularity. There is no place for it in racing or society as a whole and we need to do and be better. At the end of the day this is a sport, we are here to race. Death threats, hate mail, vitriol towards extended family members is deplorable. We value inclusion and want a safe space for everyone to work in and enjoy our sport. The abuse needs to stop."

Almost all of them get this, you don’t think they helped create hatred towards LH/Toto/MB? This is what I’ve talked to you about here but you constantly ignore it. It’s a societal thing that needs to change. We all need to be better.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

They should get heat for that but we could post videos where LH let Bottas buy when he didn’t have everything locked up.

This is now, this incident. Did LH’s or Vettel’s parents go public with personal stuff to?

Unrelated.

I don't approve but I also don't approve of the stuff being written to the Verstappen family either.

Max is Max. Whether his parent made a mistake by defending their child is a separate issue.

[________]

Originally Posted by NYG

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...g-8567923.html

Haven't been watching F1 long?

Vettel apologised to him and Red Bull on a number of occasions shortly after the race but makes no concessions for the type of driver he is.
Vettel said. "I apologised to the team straight after for putting myself above the team, which I didn't mean to do. I don't apologise for winning. That is why people employed me and why I'm here."

We’ll just agree to disagree and move on as we do with everything else around here.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

Unrelated.

I don't approve but I also don't approve of the stuff being written to the Verstappen family either.

Max is Max. Whether his parent made a mistake by defending their child is a separate issue.

No it all sucks but it is what it is. It’s all related in the sense that it needs to stop across the board. Maybe stop calling people c*nts to start? I’m no saint but I’ve definitely tried to dial it back and get along with those I don’t like here. It starts small but hopefully helps with the overall behavior. Obviously I’m skeptical.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

Almost all of them get this, you don’t think they helped create hatred towards LH/Toto/MB? This is what I’ve talked to you about here but you constantly ignore it. It’s a societal thing that needs to change. We all need to be better.

I love you minn but "We all need to be better" is a very empty statement. What solution is there for the short-comings of being human? Compelling speech? Silencing opinions that hurt sensitive anuses? The American founding fathers literally established a Republic based on that fact that humans are pieces of crap and will exploit and abuse power with enough time as history has proven over and over again.

I think we can all agree that things get out of hand and this behavior is unbecoming but that's life. This is what annoys so many about cheap virtue signaling from some of the drivers. Almost everyone knows what good etiquette is and yet we still break it often. In reality, we can all acknowledge garbage behavior but the optimal solution is to develop thicker skin. Yes, there are some extreme behaviors that don't fall into the conversation but calling someone or their family a doodie head on social media is trashy just like saying someone cheated on their wife is trashy but these aren't things that anyone can control without damaging the big picture.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Onesie

Vettel apologised to him and Red Bull on a number of occasions shortly after the race but makes no concessions for the type of driver he is.
Vettel said. "I apologised to the team straight after for putting myself above the team, which I didn't mean to do. I don't apologise for winning. That is why people employed me and why I'm here."

We’ll just agree to disagree and move on as we do with everything else around here.

Give it enough time and the Max / Checo situation will play out the same way.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

I love you minn but "We all need to be better" is a very empty statement. What solution is there for the short-comings of being human? Compelling speech? Silencing opinions that hurt sensitive anuses? The American founding fathers literally established a Republic based on that fact that humans are pieces of crap and will exploit and abuse power with enough time as history has proven over and over again.

I think we can all agree that things get out of hand and this behavior is unbecoming but that's life. This is what annoys so many about cheap virtue signaling from some of the drivers. Almost everyone knows what good etiquette is and yet we still break it often. In reality, we can all acknowledge garbage behavior but the optimal solution is to develop thicker skin. Yes, there are some extreme behaviors that don't fall into the conversation but calling someone or their family a doodie head on social media is trashy just like saying someone cheated on their wife is trashy but these aren't things that anyone can control without damaging the big picture.

I guess my response is then don’t cry for Red Bull or the Verstappen family when it happens. I agree to a point, I don’t think it is virtue signaling to tell people to be better. My version of that is to not send people death threats over a sport. Not a real high bar, maybe if we can back off from there and get back to the usual bickering.

My point with this situation is Max and his family started some public sh@!. And they and you shouldn’t be surprised with the reaction they are getting, especially with what you wrote here. I don’t agree with it at all, everyone (including me at times) needs to stop being so emotional.