2016 McLaren 570S: Supercar Speed with Sports Car Fun! - Ignition Ep. 145

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Niko1414

I wouldn't compare the 570s and 650s to the same depreciation curve as the 12c which was over built and lack of demand.

But we shall see. 650s is holding as used car market is moving on them.

Not sure how well you think they hold but right now there is a 2015 650s spider in Green with 7k miles on the clock priced at 240k. I believe the MSRP was 330k or so... Newport has it

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by gmfive

Indeed, that R8 should be awesome!

Have been meaning to ask you - do you find the Huracan fairly manageable in somewhat regular use - easy to get in and out of and not too low?

Its a little low so it requires some ducking but I'm ok with it since its not a daily car. Its definitely the most difficult to get in and out of but one gets used to it. I love how it drives and sounds. The experience is worthy.

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Not sure how well you think they hold but right now there is a 2015 650s spider in Green with 7k miles on the clock priced at 240k. I believe the MSRP was 330k or so... Newport has it

That's a lot of miles--- I had an option to get a green one with about 760 miles for 220k'ish but I just don't need that car as a replacement for my FF. I need a daily GT cruiser.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I got my fact from the history of Ford compare to the history of McLaren...
I don't think there is any reason we want to argue about the big F1 maker company compare to Ford. Furthermore, there are many reasons I can claim McLaren is more reliable than Ford from business stand point. McLaren is a company must compete with all high level European companies including Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi, Mercedes, BMW,... while Ford is the only company in USA produce this type of car (you can read exotic or super car) and no matter what they produce, there are lovers who pay for this car. Exactly like Corvette or Viper. These cars have their own customers even if they have zero reliability... BUT again from investment stand point, you are right and it may be a good investment to get Ford GT and make big money after couple years... BTW forget about the resale price and the fact you referred to value after couple years, if you had option to chose 488 or 675LT or Ford GT and you knew all three would lose 50% of their price in 3 years, what would you take?

Actually, there is more overlap than you think. Ford built this "supercar" to compete with the Italians and Brits. Amongst our very large exotic community here in Atlanta the Ford GT is the talk of the town, The buyers are not typical Ford buyers who will just buy anything that Ford puts out. This is a rare exotic machine that is sought after by all sectors. We are having to get approval directly from Ford to purchase them with ultimate final approval coming form the CEO. He will put his stamp of approval personally on all 176 per year that will go to US customers. This is a car that isn't sought after because its a Ford. It's sought after for what it is as a car. It is truly something special.

Part 2 of the question is easy...675LT!!!! I'm not sure any vehicle will compete on the fun factor except the upcoming P14 which is light years ahead in tech form what I understand...teaser: laser lights

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I don't know of anyone who actually has one ... yet. ColdList who owned a 12c, two 650s', and has a 675 LT right now- raved about it and how it drives. He drove it a few weekends ago in GA. I have tagged him for more input.

There are some fair reviews out there... Pobst was critical of it in certain track situations and I think Chris Harris (who I like the most) did a good review as well.

I'm not looking at it yet for other reasons. I want to make sure there are no quality control issues and would rather wait here. I have the Lambo and the GTS to satisfy my appetite for now. And with the normally aspirated R8 looming with arguably better sound plus a v10 NA beast; things are really great for entry level super car buyers.

Best bet is to go drive one. It will knock your socks off. I have pretty high performance expectations of cars and I was more than impressed..in fact, fa r more than expected. If my wife didn't need backseats the car would already be in my garage. Accelerates like a jackrabbit with it's tail on fire, brakes hard, sounds amazing...and the shift....wow! crisp and fast! Now add that it's actually hi-tech and comfortable and you have the perfect daily driver. AND THE DOORS GO UP! :-)

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I don't know of anyone who actually has one ... yet. ColdList who owned a 12c, two 650s', and has a 675 LT right now- raved about it and how it drives. He drove it a few weekends ago in GA. I have tagged him for more input.

There are some fair reviews out there... Pobst was critical of it in certain track situations and I think Chris Harris (who I like the most) did a good review as well.

I'm not looking at it yet for other reasons. I want to make sure there are no quality control issues and would rather wait here. I have the Lambo and the GTS to satisfy my appetite for now. And with the normally aspirated R8 looming with arguably better sound plus a v10 NA beast; things are really great for entry level super car buyers.

Best bet is to go drive one. It will knock your socks off. I have pretty high performance expectations of cars and I was more than impressed..in fact, fa r more than expected. If my wife didn't need backseats the car would already be in my garage. Accelerates like a jackrabbit with it's tail on fire, brakes hard, sounds amazing...and the shift....wow! crisp and fast! Now add that it's actually hi-tech and comfortable and you have the perfect daily driver. AND THE DOORS GO UP! :-)

Seriously, for $200K you can't touch this car. Really didn't feel slower than my 650S but I know it is...slightly. I think you would be very hard pressed to buy a 991 TTS or an R8 after driving this. It's really crazy. McLaren has gotten really smart in this segment. Comfy and RIDICULOUSLY fun! And boy does it get looks. Again...the doors go up! :-)

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by sdshah

Wait 24 months! Mclaren depreciation and this super can be yours for 50% of sell price! =}

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

I think it would depend on what they do with future models, etc. it could hold ok but if they start making 450s, 320s lol this thing will be 89k in no time lol

Originally Posted by gmfive

The 450s is definitely possible if greed overtakes sensibility. I won't bet against the possibility. We already have the BMW 1 and 2 series and the Audi A1, A2. Jaguar is also building smaller cars. Manufacturers wants to be in all segments and smell $$

Originally Posted by sdshah

The 570 and 650 will depreciate quickly imo. The buyers aren't super loyal like a Ferrari per say so there will be a second hand market.

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

They're holding a little better [650s] but not to the extent I'd want if I were a buyer. Maybe if I just indiscriminately leased I wouldn't pay much attention to it. As a buyer though seeing a 2015 with a 300k MSRP going for 219-225 is disconcerting, especially with more models looming.



They also don't have the lineage those brands have. I mean 430s are already starting to climb! 360s are on the rise...

Other than the SLR joint venture, F1, and P1 I'd simply say they're a niche market inside a niche market.

Trust me. I'm not a fan of the McLaren depreciation considering how much money I have lost in favor of the unmatched fun! But McLaren is coming into it's own. They are establishing a very good following with lots of people converting. They have also cut production numbers and are sensitive to allocating higher numbers of the more desirable cars so that the market absorbs them and supply is not outweighing demand.

Although the real reason to purchase is the fun. There's just not much real comparison. Short of a hypercar there is no car that yo could give me 2 of in exchange for my 675LT. It exceeds everything I have ever driven in excitement by miles.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Trust me. I'm not a fan of the McLaren depreciation considering how much money I have lost in favor of the unmatched fun! But McLaren is coming into it's own. They are establishing a very good following with lots of people converting. They have also cut production numbers and are sensitive to allocating higher numbers of the more desirable cars so that the market absorbs them and supply is not outweighing demand.

Although the real reason to purchase is the fun. There's just not much real comparison. Short of a hypercar there is no car that yo could give me 2 of in exchange for my 675LT. It exceeds everything I have ever driven in excitement by miles.

Based on what you're saying I should cave in and get one

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Based on what you're saying I should cave in and get one

I believe what cold is saying is they are trending towards the right direction, but still have the ability to go either way. Botch it, or grab hold of a tangible place in the market with controlled production numbers and good quality. Also that he personally has yet to experience something as fun, and as such the fun has outweighed the disadvantages surrounding depreciation or the catastrophe if they hit a misstep.

My read on his comments. Proceed with caution but if you can have the fun. Have at it.

[thebishman]

One thing to consider re: the comparison with Ferrari and 'depreciation curves', etc:

McClaren has very little history making 'road vehicles' (the F1 doesn't count in this argument), whereas Ferrari has been making them for decades, and manipulating the market to a great extent. Who's to say that McClarens in the future won't start to hold value to a greater extent once build quality; running costs; the used market forces, etc come into play once the damn cars have been on the road for more than 3/4 years!!

Vic you have so much more knowledge of the 'market' than I. Do you think that when the marque becomes far more established and creates an history there could well be a firming up of the used prices?

As an Ex-Pat I really hope that the Maccas do great. I just wish I could buy Mike's 675LT when he trades it in!!! lol

Bish

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

I believe what cold is saying is they are trending towards the right direction, but still have the ability to go either way. Botch it, or grab hold of a tangible place in the market with controlled production numbers and good quality. Also that he personally has yet to experience something as fun, and as such the fun has outweighed the disadvantages surrounding depreciation or the catastrophe if they hit a misstep.

My read on his comments. Proceed with caution but if you can have the fun. Have at it.

I was teasing him because if I get one he will give me a hard time. Actually I do think the 675 is the best looking car they have made to date. He will get bored in six months and I will buy his.

[sdshah]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Trust me. I'm not a fan of the McLaren depreciation considering how much money I have lost in favor of the unmatched fun! But McLaren is coming into it's own. They are establishing a very good following with lots of people converting. They have also cut production numbers and are sensitive to allocating higher numbers of the more desirable cars so that the market absorbs them and supply is not outweighing demand.

Although the real reason to purchase is the fun. There's just not much real comparison. Short of a hypercar there is no car that yo could give me 2 of in exchange for my 675LT. It exceeds everything I have ever driven in excitement by miles.

Based on the reviews and customer testimonials really sounds like it. I can't afford the 675LT but the 570s used may be a reality if it works out with the used prices. I think the 675 LT will hold value better than the rest of the models.

My only knock on McCl is that they need more differentiation in design exterior and interior for the higher end models. It's great for entry level people like me in the 570s but your interior in the 675LT should really be a different experience. You pay that type of money and it should be way above the model that costs 200k less. But they are really putting out a great product and it's a great time to be an American with money who likes cars.

[clar]

Cold, is it easier to get in and out of the 570S?

I have my eyes squarely locked on to the next P14. Mac technology is miles ahead of Ferrari. How many mass produced sports car out there can boast a carbon fiber tub? Ferrari's own CF solution on series production cars is no where in sight. Mac seems to have learned their lesson with the 12C and are starting to make fun to drive cars. They sure do learn fast. Doubters can continue to doubt, but Mac isn't standing still. One slight complain though, they should improve the sound of their V8s next. Not that it sounds terrible, but could do with more distinction and character.

Originally Posted by ColdList

Best bet is to go drive one. It will knock your socks off. I have pretty high performance expectations of cars and I was more than impressed..in fact, fa r more than expected. If my wife didn't need backseats the car would already be in my garage. Accelerates like a jackrabbit with it's tail on fire, brakes hard, sounds amazing...and the shift....wow! crisp and fast! Now add that it's actually hi-tech and comfortable and you have the perfect daily driver. AND THE DOORS GO UP! :-)

Seriously, for $200K you can't touch this car. Really didn't feel slower than my 650S but I know it is...slightly. I think you would be very hard pressed to buy a 991 TTS or an R8 after driving this. It's really crazy. McLaren has gotten really smart in this segment. Comfy and RIDICULOUSLY fun! And boy does it get looks. Again...the doors go up! :-)

[gmfive]

Originally Posted by clar

Cold, is it easier to get in and out of the 570S?

I have my eyes squarely locked on to the next P14. Mac technology is miles ahead of Ferrari. How many mass produced sports car out there can boast a carbon fiber tub? Ferrari's own CF solution on series production cars is no where in sight. Mac seems to have learned their lesson with the 12C and are starting to make fun to drive cars. They sure do learn fast. Doubters can continue to doubt, but Mac isn't standing still. One slight complain though, they should improve the sound of their V8s next. Not that it sounds terrible, but could do with more distinction and character.

Good point about the sound. I have not been impressed with the exhaust notes of the 650s I have seen on roads. Maybe they can take Yamaha's help in tuning it?

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by ColdList

... I think you would be very hard pressed to buy a 991 TTS or an R8 after driving this. It's really crazy.

I don't know why but looks like for the first time I agree with you LOL

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by clar

Mac seems to have learned their lesson with the 12C and are starting to make fun to drive cars. They sure do learn fast. Doubters can continue to doubt, but Mac isn't standing still. One slight complain though, they should improve the sound of their V8s next. Not that it sounds terrible, but could do with more distinction and character.

That's true they are fun to ride in/ drive. But anything in the 10s or even 9s really puts me to sleep anymore

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

That's true they are fun to ride in/ drive. But anything in the 10s or even 9s really puts me to sleep anymore

So in reality a new 570S is a better car than a used 2012 12C with a lower selling price of 30-40k less? I really don't know, have never driven either, but one would think of the higher power and fancy suspension on a used 12C would mean something to a potential buyer. I do understand that the interior tech is better on the 570S however. I'm just trying to figure out which is the better deal for a driver who rarely intends on ever tracking the car.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

So in reality a new 570S is a better car than a used 2012 12C with a lower selling price of 30-40k less? I really don't know, have never driven either, but one would think of the higher power and fancy suspension on a used 12C would mean something to a potential buyer. I do understand that the interior tech is better on the 570S however. I'm just trying to figure out which is the better deal for a driver who rarely intends on ever tracking the car.

You get a brand new car with a WARRANTY and updated technology and design (looks). Its clearly form and function over a dated model that just lost all its marbles in the depreciation war. Id much rather pay 30k more for a new car than get a 12C. The suspension for the 570S is exactly for users like you; daily drivers on the street who might track it but probably wont.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by thebishman

One thing to consider re: the comparison with Ferrari and 'depreciation curves', etc:

McClaren has very little history making 'road vehicles' (the F1 doesn't count in this argument), whereas Ferrari has been making them for decades, and manipulating the market to a great extent. Who's to say that McClarens in the future won't start to hold value to a greater extent once build quality; running costs; the used market forces, etc come into play once the damn cars have been on the road for more than 3/4 years!!

Vic you have so much more knowledge of the 'market' than I. Do you think that when the marque becomes far more established and creates an history there could well be a firming up of the used prices?

As an Ex-Pat I really hope that the Maccas do great. I just wish I could buy Mike's 675LT when he trades it in!!! lol

Bish

Bish its tough to predict since its (the brand) so young in the end user market. I would say that they do all the product pieces right: design, performance, tech... but they priced heavy on the 12C and 650S AND overproduced their market demand. I think the 570S will be the game changer as the market for this priced car is much larger than those that delve into the 300k plus range. It has a reasonable lease for a well compensated individual who wants to spend a little more to get that baby exotic with all those looks. They need more buyers who actually come back for more (besides Mike and Niko LOL). Almost all the buyers I know (personally) are resale buyers where the depreciation already set in.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

So in reality a new 570S is a better car than a used 2012 12C with a lower selling price of 30-40k less? I really don't know, have never driven either, but one would think of the higher power and fancy suspension on a used 12C would mean something to a potential buyer. I do understand that the interior tech is better on the 570S however. I'm just trying to figure out which is the better deal for a driver who rarely intends on ever tracking the car.

Well, although 12C has more power but has the same torque (600 NM) and that's why at lower speeds (i.e. 0-60 mph) 570s is about 0.1 second quicker. Also 570s is abit lighter and has the latest technology (including traction control) and upgraded SSG (transmission) and looks nicer IMO.
You can compare specs here:

12C:
http://cars.mclaren.com/files/live/s...%20Spec_V6.pdf

570s:
http://cars.mclaren.com/files/live/s...cification.pdf

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Well, although 12C has more power but has the same torque (600 NM) and that's why at lower speeds (i.e. 0-60 mph) 570s is about 0.1 second quicker. Also 570s is abit lighter and has the latest technology (including traction control) and upgraded SSG (transmission) and looks nicer IMO.
You can compare specs here:

12C:
http://cars.mclaren.com/files/live/s...%20Spec_V6.pdf

570s:
http://cars.mclaren.com/files/live/s...cification.pdf

Ah I see, said the blind man.

I guess the only advantage right now to the 12C, is that you can pick up a Spyder version for 180K or less these days, that is until the 570S Spyder comes out.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Ah I see, said the blind man.

I guess the only advantage right now to the 12C, is that you can pick up a Spyder version for 180K or less these days, that is until the 570S Spyder comes out.

And that you can tune it

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

And that you can tune it

You can tune the 570S--- its the same engine as the 650S with tweak to bring the hp down... I have no doubt there will be a readily available tune for this car very soon.