Wow, another fuel pump failure, this time the HPFP -- Update, now it's the DME

[Netwon]

Does anyone know why the word s p a c e is starred out?

[Spinny02]

I have had to replace the hpfps on two of my p cars. This must be a wide spread vendor issue with these pumps or inadequate preventative maint regime ??

[mcvaughan]

Bummer. Sorry to see you leave the fold, William.

Enjoy the P-car!

[wrsbmw]

Update from the Dealer. They are now de-programming the Dinan Update and putting the car back to stock. Apparently Dinan has some concerns about what is going on with my car. However, I asked explicitly did they test the hpfp when they replaced it to see if it was a failed component and the SA said they did and it failed the bench diagnostic they can do on it.

So I don't know what Dinan could be doing to create the problem but I don't see how running a tune without running the car hard could cause the hpfp to fail. Anyway, they are taking the car out now for a test drive. The SA is going to call me back with an update.

[amit1947]

Bad news, looks like the hpfp problem was never resolved. By the way, this has nothing to do with bad fuel, its a flaw in the design/mfg.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by amit1947

Bad news, looks like the hpfp problem was never resolved. By the way, this has nothing to do with bad fuel, its a flaw in the design/mfg.

This is my thought but unfortunately I have to see how it plays out since it appears my car is going to be the test bed for now. Is it Dinan or is it BMW? I believe the latter. I see you have the same car I had a lot of trouble with, have you had trouble with the turbos, injectors or hpfp?

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

This is my thought but unfortunately I have to see how it plays out since it appears my car is going to be the test bed for now. Is it Dinan or is it BMW? I believe the latter. I see you have the same car I had a lot of trouble with, have you had trouble with the turbos, injectors or hpfp?

It's a mechanical issue with the pump , the tune would not cause it to fail a bench test period . The BMS actually runs more boost and requires greater fuel requirements via long term fuel trim adjustments ESP at 3.5 psi + . If a tune was going to cause a problem it would be the BMS ESP people running + 4/5 with race gas and meth .

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

It's a mechanical issue with the pump , the tune would not cause it to fail a bench test period . The BMS actually runs more boost and requires greater fuel requirements via long term fuel trim adjustments ESP at 3.5 psi + . If a tune was going to cause a problem it would be the BMS ESP people running + 4/5 with race gas and meth .

No doubt and I thought about that as well. Anyway, in talking with Dan at Dinan, there is another upgrade for the tune and furthermore, it turns out I have been at stage I all along. I couldn't buy Stage 2 because it wasn't available when I bought mine so I only paid for Stage 1. Fixed that though, I told them to bill me the extra $250 and I will be getting the update and Stage 2 when my car is returned. I am really interested in seeing how much faster the car is with Stage 2. I can keep it long enough to check that out anyway and my wife doesn't want to get rid of it because the third car is handy.

I just went and put down a deposit on the FVD piggyback and IPD Plenum and maybe FVD Brombacher headers for the 991 tts. Looks like there is another car over there at sixspeedonline that runs 10.5 132 with that setup.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

No doubt and I thought about that as well. Anyway, in talking with Dan at Dinan, there is another upgrade for the tune and furthermore, it turns out I have been at stage I all along. I couldn't buy Stage 2 because it wasn't available when I bought mine so I only paid for Stage 1. Fixed that though, I told them to bill me the extra $250 and I will be getting the update and Stage 2 when my car is returned. I am really interested in seeing how much faster the car is with Stage 2. I can keep it long enough to check that out anyway and my wife doesn't want to get rid of it because the third car is handy.

I just went and put down a deposit on the FVD piggyback and IPD Plenum and maybe FVD Brombacher headers for the 991 tts. Looks like there is another car over there at sixspeedonline that runs 10.5 132 with that setup.

Cool , yeah I can't wait to see what my M6 will do with the Stage two as it is at a 130 trap with stage 1 . This is vey reminiscent of my 335 days when I went through two HPFP's . It seems to be an issue across multiple manufacturers too so likely a shared third party source . It just a sucks you have been lucky enough to get that many " off spec " pumps . I wouldn't let it turn you off from BMW though BC it's just as likely to happen with a DI Porsche as well .

[wrsbmw]

Still don't have the car back. They have totally bypassed Dinan and they are getting the same error codes and I guess the car isn't running any good. They are now working with BMW and think they are going to change the DME.

Wow, bad to worse. Good thing I have a second car that I like better because I would be pissed at driving a loaner so much now.

[BMWonlyZone]

Reason number 1999 why should always lease a car like this!

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Me too, I am tired of things breaking, I am probably going to get rid of it while it's still new enough to fetch a decent price.

[BMWonlyZone]

My V8 F10 550 went through 3 HPFP's! And two full sets of injectors! Yep.

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

BMWs 6 cylinders had a known HPFP issue. The V8s have been typically very reliable. I believe your issue is related to the stress of the tune on the components.

[BMWonlyZone]

PS. My V8 X6 went through even more!

Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone

My V8 F10 550 went through 3 HPFP's! And two full sets of injectors! Yep.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Netwon

I would question how through their testing methods are. Most dealers do not have access to a dyno so under load testing becomes a problem unless they are doing a test drive with instrumentation attached. Having said that the HPFP is a mechanical pump driven off the exhaust cam, which should be a works or doesn't.

At high load & low engine speed (accelerating) our HPFP's can develop 200 bar to get into the cylinder and atomize the fuel.

As for the tuning angle removing it short term for testing wouldn't be that bad an idea to rule it out. From looking at the Dinan package for the F10 M5 it shouldn't be that hard to have the dealer temporarily by-pass the Dinan unit while leaving it physically in the car. Dinan please comment on this.

Please keep us up to date next time your car returns from the shop.

Good Luck!

Usually no need for them to actually do dyno testing. All of these parametres are "datalogged" by the DME and can be diagnosed via Rheingold (BMW's OBD reader software). So if there is a loss of fuel pressure under hard driving, that will be datalogged within the DME and can be read out afterwards. It will also say at how many miles and how many times this happened. You can even get graphs showing the occurence of simultaneous faults etc. This is also where you get misfire recordings and at which cylinders that took place (and at what mileage and timepoint etc.)

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Usually no need for them to actually do dyno testing. All of these parametres are "datalogged" by the DME and can be diagnosed via Rheingold (BMW's OBD reader software). So if there is a loss of fuel pressure under hard driving, that will be datalogged within the DME and can be read out afterwards. It will also say at how many miles and how many times this happened. You can even get graphs showing the occurence of simultaneous faults etc. This is also where you get misfire recordings and at which cylinders that took place (and at what mileage and timepoint etc.)

Now they want to replace the DME so go figure. This car is really punked out.

[Spinny02]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Now they want to replace the DME so go figure. This car is really punked out.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Now they want to replace the DME so go figure. This car is really punked out.

Yes, I read that I'm sorry to read about the troubles you have had with this car...

Hope it works out and that you are able to either enjoy the car again, or sell it at a good price and buy a new toy

[Netwon]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Usually no need for them to actually do dyno testing.

I am not sure what is like where you live but in Canada there are virtually no roads near a BMW dealership where you could hold the throttle down for more then 5 seconds and not be at risk of arrest/car impound if caught. The policing for "street racing" is getting ridiculous but that is another topic.