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      09-12-2012, 08:35 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfbimmer
I own both Panamera GTS and M5. I agree with the review. Every time I drive the GTS it puts a huge smile on my face. M5 doen't disappoint, but it is a much less exciting car despite al this power.
Care to give more details?
How is the M5 while having alot more horsepower be less exciting?
Is it really that bad?
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      09-12-2012, 08:39 PM   #46
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Also the Pany only seats 4 where the 5 can carry 5 in a pinch - that matters to those with 4 kids
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      09-12-2012, 08:54 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clar
The reviewer however, exaggerated the GTS' relative performance against the M5. There is no way in hell it would be able to keep up with the M5 in the real world. The drag race does not even look like they used the launch control on the M5. I am pretty certain the GTS has better steering than the M5 though. They also conveniently forgot to mention looks. Panas are hideous creations that only a mother could love.
Funny thing. If you add one more 'n' to "Panas," you get "Pannus." the medical term for fat-flap.
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      09-12-2012, 08:58 PM   #48
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I would agree. I had a Panamera 4S and now have the new F10 M5. The reviewer is absolutely correct re the air suspension ride over the M5's. I don't find the M5 ride unpleasant at all - the ride is different and you simply feel the road more in the M5.

I'm sure the M5 will shine on the track as the directly bolted rear suspension should make a difference. The reality is that most owners don't track cars like me and my buddies.... So most will complain about the ride complacency. Keep in mind that it is an M car and not a 550i. So I will take the car's capabilities and sacrifice some ride comfort anytime.
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      09-12-2012, 09:17 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerlover76
Quote:
Originally Posted by clar
The reviewer however, exaggerated the GTS' relative performance against the M5. There is no way in hell it would be able to keep up with the M5 in the real world. The drag race does not even look like they used the launch control on the M5. I am pretty certain the GTS has better steering than the M5 though. They also conveniently forgot to mention looks. Panas are hideous creations that only a mother could love.
Funny thing. If you add one more 'n' to "Panas," you get "Pannus." the medical term for fat-flap.
learn something new everyday
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      09-12-2012, 09:23 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsualSuspect View Post
They should have compared the M5 to the Panamera Turbo or the Turbo S. The M5 would have lost the drag race.
they did. they raced (rolling start) the M5 against the turboS and the porsche lost by quite a few car lengths.
And as for the looks, did you see the Top Gear show where Jeremy Clarkson could not bear to look at the Panamera. that thing is just butt ugly, period.
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      09-12-2012, 09:25 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majdnoon View Post
There is NO WAY I'm paying over $40,000 MORE for a car that is slower than an M5, and looks like a rotten eggplant.
^^^^^ That's some funny shiet! Rotten egg plant! On a serious note........ Are you really surprised the Porsche corners better? Really? ^^^^^

Last edited by BMW BRAD; 09-12-2012 at 11:02 PM.
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      09-12-2012, 09:29 PM   #52
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A an ok video review and being a huge Porsche fan I will give them credit where due they make very good sporty cars. However I just found the M5 to be more appealing and "value" if you consider what you are getting for the money! Different strokes for everyone, they all make a great cars and will sell them to the perspective buyers that want them. Journalists are the quick to judge folk and I would be interested to see what an extended ownership experience feedback would.

I bought the M5 over the Panamera for a few reasons: 1) 6MT 2) More Stealth 3) Driving Position (didn't like the Pana raked glass). 4) Price, I was not spending 150k+ on a 4 door sedan - sorry. 5) Missed BMW tech/NAV.

Last edited by uhn2000; 09-12-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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      09-12-2012, 10:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashhell
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfbimmer
I own both Panamera GTS and M5. I agree with the review. Every time I drive the GTS it puts a huge smile on my face. M5 doen't disappoint, but it is a much less exciting car despite al this power.
Care to give more details?
How is the M5 while having alot more horsepower be less exciting?
Is it really that bad?
1. I think 560 ponies are not really useable in the real world. Unless it is always dry and the road is perfect. The ESP is interfering a lot cutting of the power especially in the corners. And this is exactly where the GTS shines. I don't need a drag racer I want a precision tool.

2. The NA engine makes the throttle response amazingly precise. I can feel the GTS on the tips of my toes. I know exactly how much power every flex will deliver. There is no eggshell all or nothing effect you sometimes get from the M5.

3. I do love the 4 wheel drive and the all weather usability of the GTS.

4. The sound of the engine and the exhaust is exhilarating!

5. It is all very personal and some people will hate the GTS for the very same things I love it.
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      09-12-2012, 10:38 PM   #54
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How does one explain the C&D Jan 2012 win of the 5 yr old M3 vs Merc and the prior year win of the M3 vs the RS5? All of Audi's advertising dollars appeared in Feb 2012? It's not just a C&D "issue"... across numerous comparos around the world, new BMWs are losing 50%-60% of them..

Quote:
Originally Posted by amgthis View Post
This has been discussed before. Guess who endorses C&D? Audi. And earlier in the same issue, they test an M6 (which has the same exact steering and suspension components) and praise the car. Something is fishy. Perhaps the Audi earned the win, but something isn't consistent. I'm still looking for an M5 to drive, as well as a CLS63/E63
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      09-12-2012, 10:39 PM   #55
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I have no issue with the reviewer's take on the GTS suspension relative to the M5. I don't have any beef with the M5's suspension. It's way cosy enough for me in comfort mode. The steering on the M5 however, is as what he said. It filters in road noise, but not enough feedback. When i first collected my M5, i had thought there was something wrong with the tires and promptly sent it in for balancing. It didn't help much. There was always this low frequency hum to the wheel like a constant vibration. The feedback is also not as good as it should be for a hydraulic setup. It's evident when i climb back to my E92 M3, which has more feedback. In my opinion, M didn't get it right this time. It's still a pin sharp responsive steering though, just not feelsome. After a few thousand km on the clock, the steering seem to have lost that vibration. Apart from the steering and active sound, everything else about this car is astounding esp the drive train!
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      09-12-2012, 11:43 PM   #56
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12.4?

wtf?????
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      09-12-2012, 11:44 PM   #57
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Why can't they both be great? I have a Pan GTS and I love it. I ordered an M5 and I am hoping it will be great too.
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      09-12-2012, 11:55 PM   #58
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Impressive guy....he managed to be irritating and boring at the same time.
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      09-12-2012, 11:56 PM   #59
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As usual, the reviewer Lieberman is a babbling tornado of misinformation. It takes some balls to look straight into the camera and say "But no matter how much money you spend on a 4S, you can't get PASM", when you can get PASM on a Boxster, let alone a Panamera 4S.

Motortrend always has been lame, but using this idiot to run most of their web contents is low even for MT.
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      09-13-2012, 12:45 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceinCary
Also the Pany only seats 4 where the 5 can carry 5 in a pinch - that matters to those with 4 kids
I think you forgot one of your kids. You need a MINIVAN.
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      09-13-2012, 01:03 AM   #61
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Porsche Panamera... what a joke.

BMW M5 is way ahead of any Porsche Panamera. I don't care what the review says, most essentially it is biased towards the man in the show.
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      09-13-2012, 01:22 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceinCary View Post
Also the Pany only seats 4 where the 5 can carry 5 in a pinch - that matters to those with 4 kids
Whoa... They will definitely not fit in Panamera, you need a totally different class of vehicle... You're in luck, though - another European car manufacturer makes just a perfect vehicle for you, and best of all it is available here in USA:
http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/sprinter/passenger-van
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      09-13-2012, 03:46 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
How does one explain the C&D Jan 2012 win of the 5 yr old M3 vs Merc and the prior year win of the M3 vs the RS5? All of Audi's advertising dollars appeared in Feb 2012? It's not just a C&D "issue"... across numerous comparos around the world, new BMWs are losing 50%-60% of them..
Is the highlighted portion an estimation or fact?

Assuming Car & Driver, which has been giving Audi rave reviews (not trying to undermine Audi here) was being objective during the M5 vs E63 vs S6 comparo, there was definitely something up with the M5 they got. The things they criticized the M5 for (namely the suspension, steering and brakes) were the things the M6 convertible had no problems with. This is very peculiar because they have the same exact hardware. Just saying, maybe the test car they had was beaten and flogged to death by other journalists by the time they got around to testing it whereas they most likely had a fresh example of the M6 since it was released later. Not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out things that don't seem right.
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      09-13-2012, 04:26 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carholic View Post
Why can't they both be great? I have a Pan GTS and I love it. I ordered an M5 and I am hoping it will be great too.
+1. I have an E63 Wagon and an M5 and enjoy them both, just as you will enjoy your new M5. After all, no reviewer is saying the M5 is a bad car, just that he prefers something else.

If you just ordered an M5 or own one (like some of us here), naturally is is disappointing that "our" car doesn't win a comparison test. It's human nature. So we seek to find something wrong with the winning car to make ourselves feel better about our choice.

I'll say this much though....The M5 was always going to struggle to match its sporty forebears (E60, E39 etc) when BMW decided to use the 7 series chassis as the basis for the 5 series chassis. The car just feels too big on the road to be ideal. The steering is fine (though not as good as the E63 and, it seems, the Panamera) but the car is wide and feels it when the road tightens. I still love it though. A car doesn't have to be perfect to be enjoyable.
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      09-13-2012, 06:10 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flightz71
After all these months of reviews and feedback, I've concluded the 2 following were the greatest flaws for the new M5:

1. It's TOO FRICKIN HEAVY.

The old e60 was a porker... but throw on another 400 lbs? ... At least they did it right with the 3 and made it lighter. Also... so much sound deadening they had to artifically pump engine music into the stereo? Just get rid of sound deadening in excessive areas, reduce weight, get more of a natural sound back. How hard can that be??? I get that this car is marketed towards old rich men that want to show off, but it is an M car, it should work hard to balance heritage between marketing/business growth.

2. Steering Feel

This is a trademark of M cars. The steering feel in the e46/e39 cars were already butchered with the e92/e60 cars, but even worse now? Someone needs to go back to the drawing board and discover the roots of why this is so important. What sets the car apart from the AMG's, the RS's.
What he said about removing sound deadening instead of piping in engine sound is logical.
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      09-13-2012, 07:10 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaben View Post
What he said about removing sound deadening instead of piping in engine sound is logical.
I am fairly sure Active Sound is a dumb experiment M tried on the F10 M5, which they will never ever attempt on another M car unless other manufacturers follow suit, which nobody else seems to be doing (thank goodness). It sounded to me that all those auxiliary systems they have under the bonnet is introducing too much undesirable sounds making an acoustic channel not viable cos along with the induction note, other crap would filter in as well. They probably realized this after they have gone too far down the road with those sub systems. With the F3x M3, I would think they would be more mindful of all the sounds produced by the sub systems to avoid another repeat of the Active Sound fiasco. They won't survive the collective scorn if it's done on the next M3.
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