6 Speed M5 Owners?

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

There comes a point where there is just so much power and torque, that you have to so gentle with the throttle/clutch interplay, that some of the sheer driving fun is lost.

Shifting in a 560hp, front engine, RWD, big-ass sedan is better done by a computer, IMO.

I've ordered mine with the DCT although I do really enjoy the skills involved in driving a manual trans well on the track. But for me the DCT allows for periods of relaxed attention during dull driving situations, and then you can transition to spirited driving when desired, which with the HP of this car will still require well developed driving skills to keep it on the road!

One technical concern I have with the DCT is the smaller inner clutch which handles gears 2,4,6, and reverse. I don't know the technical specs other than it is a smaller diameter than the outer clutch, but with the horsepower upgrades for modified ECUs, I wonder if it might not handle full power trips up and down the gearbox for extended periods?

[GTR-Dad]

Originally Posted by nybimmerfan

In the mountains, it was more like 22/23mpg probably because I would put the car in neutral in downhill runs and would use the car's momentum whenever possible.

Good idea to use the car's momentum to save fuel.

You'll save even more by leaving the car in a gear on downhill sections as the ECU will cut fuel in over run conditions (how does ZERO consumption sound), but needs to burn enough fuel to idle when you run in neutral.

Mine is a DCT. It was a difficult decision at time of order, and I'm still conflicted. For driving involvement, the challenge - and satisfaction of getting it right - of the 6MT trumps the ease of use and speed of the DCT.

Q - Would I choose differently next time?
A - For my intended use of daily driver with frequent spirited road use and a bit of track time, no.... Well, only if emotion clouded my judgement. However, if this was my only car, I think I'd miss the satisfaction of shifting myself enough to forego the convenience and performance of the DCT.

In the end, it's really down to personal preference and honest assessment of what you're looking for in a car.

[matthewEW]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

I have driven manuals for over 30 years. My current 2011 M3 is a manual and I absolutely love it. However, if I buy an M5 it will be DCT. There comes a point where there is just so much power and torque, that you have to so gentle with the throttle/clutch interplay, that some of the sheer driving fun is lost.

As it is, the F10 is traction challenged. Add in having to operate a clutch and shifter on top of that, and in my mind, you've gone over the peak of the curve for driving enjoyment. With the DSC off, you 'd do best to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. With it on, you will have to get every shift absolutely perfect every time to keep that sucker from cutting power and bogging you down.

If you want to enjoy a manual transmission car, get something like an M3 or Porsche 911. Something smaller, more dynamic, and with moderate power. Shifting in a 560hp, front engine, RWD, big-ass sedan is better done by a computer, IMO.

I get it you can only handle a manual if they are petite cars with small stick transmissions. I guess you won't cut it to be a manual truck drive with 9. 10+ car gears and whose drivers seem to enjoy driving those semis!

[TheStig]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

I have driven manuals for over 30 years. My current 2011 M3 is a manual and I absolutely love it. However, if I buy an M5 it will be DCT. There comes a point where there is just so much power and torque, that you have to so gentle with the throttle/clutch interplay, that some of the sheer driving fun is lost.

As it is, the F10 is traction challenged. Add in having to operate a clutch and shifter on top of that, and in my mind, you've gone over the peak of the curve for driving enjoyment. With the DSC off, you 'd do best to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. With it on, you will have to get every shift absolutely perfect every time to keep that sucker from cutting power and bogging you down.

If you want to enjoy a manual transmission car, get something like an M3 or Porsche 911. Something smaller, more dynamic, and with moderate power. Shifting in a 560hp, front engine, RWD, big-ass sedan is better done by a computer, IMO.

IMO, Theres nothing better then banging gears in a 6spd with over 500rwhp+ My 03 Cobra Layed down close to 660rwhp and it was maybe the most exciting car i've ever driven, But everyone has there own input on such things.

[uhn2000]

Originally Posted by TheStig

IMO, Theres nothing better then banging gears in a 6spd with over 500rwhp+ My 03 Cobra Layed down close to 660rwhp and it was maybe the most exciting car i've ever driven, But everyone has there own input on such things.

Beautifully said - I actually think the F10's torque and monstrous power is what makes the MT that much more enjoyable and fun to drive! 30 days to go...

[thebishman]

Before anyone places an order for the 6MT I wish they would get the chance to drive the car in Sport Plus mode and the tranny in D3. If there's anyone that believes this car is not totally involving when driven that way, and yes I mean even around town and the highway, well you've lost your soul! lol
I do love manuals but swore off of them after taking delivery of my '02 E46 M3 with the SMG II. I guess I saw where my 'future' lied.
Good luck to all 6MT owners though. Buy 'em while you still can.
Bish

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by matthewEW

I get it you can only handle a manual if they are petite cars with small stick transmissions. I guess you won't cut it to be a manual truck drive with 9. 10+ car gears and whose drivers seem to enjoy driving those semis!

What one can handle, and what gives ultimate driving enjoyment are two different things. And the M3 and 911 aren't exactly what I would call "petite" cars either. I enjoy throwing caution to the wind to a degree, and you can not do that in a 560hp RWD car with a manual gearbox, especially with the street driving that this car will most likely see. There are just too many real world hazards that can become dangerous if this car makes a sudden wrong move when you are playing hard with it. If you have to be too cautious about every move you are making with the car, some of the driving pleasure is gone, IMO. The M5 is a phenomenally engineered car, but for all its intended purposes, I think DCT is integral to extracting its capabilities. On the other hand, put me on an open track just to have fun (note *fun*, not best lap time) and I will take the MT hands down. But this isn't what the M5 is made for, nor how 99.5% of owners will ever use it.

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by thebishman

Before anyone places an order for the 6MT I wish they would get the chance to drive the car in Sport Plus mode and the tranny in D3. If there's anyone that believes this car is not totally involving when driven that way, and yes I mean even around town and the highway, well you've lost your soul! lol
I do love manuals but swore off of them after taking delivery of my '02 E46 M3 with the SMG II. I guess I saw where my 'future' lied.
Good luck to all 6MT owners though. Buy 'em while you still can.
Bish

Come on.

SMG-II and SMG-III is a disgrace to BMW transmission.

I hated the SMG-II on the E46 and SMG-III is just as shitty.

Again point and drive is not what i have in mind.

To each his own. DCT is a good transmission. But I just want to have a manual.

But to use SMG to argue DCT is better is obsurd. SMG blows.

[thebishman]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

Come on.

SMG-II and SMG-III is a disgrace to BMW transmission.

I hated the SMG-II on the E46 and SMG-III is just as shitty.

Again point and drive is not what i have in mind.

To each his own. DCT is a good transmission. But I just want to have a manual.

But to use SMG to argue DCT is better is obsurd. SMG blows.

If you know how to actually drive a single clutch automated manual, i.e. treat it 95% of the time as if it is a true MT then the SMG type transmissions are excellent and great fun; especially a WOT upshift. I learned how to drive mine so smoothly that you could hardly tell when I was actually changing up when driving sedately. Of course they're not as sophisticated as a DCT type transmission, but they still have their strong points, e.g. the truly visceral 'bang' changing up at 8K. It's a shame you never learned how to drive a car so equiped. Not to say that the DCT isn't of course multiples 'better', but it is of a totally different design and benefits from about 11 years development.
And where did I ever state that the SMG somehow makes the DCT "better" than the 6MT, or for that matter that the DCT is a "better" transmission? I pointed out that it's a far better design for me. What you spend your money on is your affair.
Bish

[uhn2000]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

Come on.

SMG-II and SMG-III is a disgrace to BMW transmission.

I hated the SMG-II on the E46 and SMG-III is just as shitty.

Again point and drive is not what i have in mind.

To each his own. DCT is a good transmission. But I just want to have a manual.

But to use SMG to argue DCT is better is obsurd. SMG blows.

Could not agree more. Unless you were in S6 revving to the stratosphere and breaking every speeding law in this country then SMG was a brutal transmission and the only reason I sold my E60. I thought to myself "hey its the future and its F1 derived".. for 1.5 years I cursed myself everyday for making such a huge mistake. Add insult to injury, my wife got a 135i 6MT and I barely drove the M5. Got really lucky with a good money sale and dumped it. By the time I sold the e60 was out of production and the M6 coming to an end. I decided to try the 911 and have been smiling ever since 2+ years of 3 peddle happiness.... flappy paddles never again! Like I said before, if they keep making them, I will keep buying them

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by uhn2000

Could not agree more. Unless you were in S6 revving to the stratosphere and breaking every speeding law in this country then SMG was a brutal transmission and the only reason I sold my E60. I thought to myself "hey its the future and its F1 derived".. for 1.5 years I cursed myself everyday for making such a huge mistake. Add insult to injury, my wife got a 135i 6MT and I barely drove the M5. Got really lucky with a good money sale and dumped it. By the time I sold the e60 was out of production and the M6 coming to an end. I decided to try the 911 and have been smiling ever since 2+ years of 3 peddle happiness.... flappy paddles never again! Like I said before, if they keep making them, I will keep buying them

Damn its so similar to my story.

I had to get the 1st year M5. So i got stuck with SMT. I hated the damn thing. I have to feather the throttle even in manual mode so it can smoothly shift to next gear.

Sold the E60 after 6 and half year with only 22k miles. It was a mistake.

I ended up buying a 135i M sport 6 speed to tie me over until the F10 arrives. That thing was a blast to drive.

I eneded up putting over 30k miles on the 135i in three years. I rarely drive the M5. Part of it is SMT, the other is that S85 is so useless in everyday drive. Can't rev it without getting a ticket.

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by thebishman

If you know how to actually drive a single clutch automated manual, i.e. treat it 95% of the time as if it is a true MT then the SMG type transmissions are excellent and great fun; especially a WOT upshift. I learned how to drive mine so smoothly that you could hardly tell when I was actually changing up when driving sedately. Of course they're not as sophisticated as a DCT type transmission, but they still have their strong points, e.g. the truly visceral 'bang' changing up at 8K. It's a shame you never learned how to drive a car so equiped. Not to say that the DCT isn't of course multiples 'better', but it is of a totally different design and benefits from about 11 years development.
And where did I ever state that the SMG somehow makes the DCT "better" than the 6MT, or for that matter that the DCT is a "better" transmission? I pointed out that it's a far better design for me. What you spend your money on is your affair.
Bish

My point is this.

In order to drive the SMG smoothly you have to feather the throttle and put in manual mode.

So what is the difference as compare to MT? The only difference is the clutch pedal. You are doing the same amount of work anyway.

That is why SMG should never be mentioned in same sentence as true manual or DCT. It just sucks

[s4awd]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

... Shifting in a 560hp, front engine, RWD, big-ass sedan is better done by a computer, IMO.

Hell no!! Shifting a 560hp front engine RWD big ass sedan was the main reason I got mine in stick. It's aweSOME! This will most likely be the last time anyone can buy a car like this. I've always wanted a GT500 but also needed a luxury car. This is what BMW is all about. Having your cake and eating it too!

[nybimmerfan]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

There are just too many real world hazards that can become dangerous if this car makes a sudden wrong move when you are playing hard with it. .

What do you mean by "this car makes a sudden wrong move". If it acts wrongly then it must have a mind of its own just like when the car is managed by a computer, ergo a DCT. If a manual or stick-shift car makes a wrong move, then it is the driver's fault as he may not "know" how to properly drive a stick. I must confess that when I first got hold of my manual M5 at ED, I had to get used to the subtleties of the clutch/gas as I have been driving Japanese stick shift cars most of the time which have very different properties.

[s4awd]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

.... There comes a point where there is just so much power and torque, that you have to so gentle with the throttle/clutch interplay, that some of the sheer driving fun is lost.

...

Gentle? What?? That's when it's most fun. It's called doing burnouts and drifts. If you don't want that just leave dsc on

[nybimmerfan]

Originally Posted by s4awd

it's most fun. It's called doing burnouts and drifts.

I totally agree with you s4awd -- the word is fun. In fact, I sure would love to get to "tame" (master would be too much to ask, he,he) those skills during the 2-day M Performance School and in the Advance M School I will be taking. I have already registered for the 2-day next month.