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      01-04-2014, 11:45 PM   #1
GhostyM
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BMW Financial Experience... Please help!

7 years of easy-going, no problem experiences buying BMW's then...

I'll make this quick here aka. semi-long tldr; It's a somewhat complicating situation, so please bear with me and provide advice for what to tell them come Monday! :beer::beer:
I just sold my E92 M3 and wanted to pick up an F10 M5.

Then comes October, 2013. I notice F10 M5 lease rates were actually somewhat decent. I get APPROVED (cash or no cash, you need to get approved to buy it).

December gets even better with a 59% residual(+1%) same .00125 money factor.

Due to new rates, you have to RESUBMIT your BMW financial app to get approved for the purchase in December. So on the 28th of December I submit a new BMW financial app and wait to get approved again.


*I will be using fake numbers to determine our income.*

This is the second time I go fill one out, except my wife isn't here this time around, so I put a total of $50,000 under just MY name because that is the household total income.
They ask for an income statement for 2012 on the 30th of December, I provide it and they fax it to BMW NA.
DECLINED.

According to BMW, I lied on my credit app. I was making significantly less in October 2013 when I got approved with 3 cars in my garage. Then in December, with one less loan, with more money, I get DECLINED?

-How could this be? Turns out when I filled our the application in Oct. 2013, I put in my wives and mine income in twice, so $50,000 each. Our sales guy, noticing it, splits it $25,000 each because both of our names are on it yet SAME company (self employed). APPROVED for October.
-December, 2013. I turn in the app again, with no wife there, I put $50,000 down on the app just for me AND provided a 2012 income tax statement in 2013. How could they NOT realize that it's still the same company and that I just put my wife in the deal because THEY told us it would be easier to get approved with two people splitting the income. I think they approved me on the basis that I only make $25,000 so when I filled out a new one by myself, the $50,000 was me lying on a credit application. Doesn't this lower my credit as well?!

Oh I forgot the kicker! They said my 2012 tax income statement is OUT OF DATE because now it's 2014.

No one even has their 2013 taxes done yet!

Where am I now? Possibly getting screwed on behalf of their negligence. The January rates, lose a $1000 loyalty, MF spikes, residuals go down 1% and I lose the holiday cash of $1500.

Now, it's not a terrible situation. I'm SO frustrated going to the dealership like 4 times already in 3 days to provide paperwork and still end up getting screwed over. This is a vacation and a couple of thousand dollars at play here.


Any help would be appreciated. Hope it's understandable to read!
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      01-05-2014, 03:40 AM   #2
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I think the first step is to get to the bottom of the reason for decline. If it is due to the discrepancy between the two applications then this should be easy to explain to the underwriters. However if its due to scoring / affordability on your income then you should probably reconsider the purchase.
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      01-05-2014, 09:23 AM   #3
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Just pay cash?
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      01-05-2014, 09:45 AM   #4
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      01-05-2014, 09:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipped B6 View Post
7 years of easy-going, no problem experiences buying BMW's then...

I'll make this quick here aka. semi-long tldr; It's a somewhat complicating situation, so please bear with me and provide advice for what to tell them come Monday! :beer::beer:
I just sold my E92 M3 and wanted to pick up an F10 M5.

Then comes October, 2013. I notice F10 M5 lease rates were actually somewhat decent. I get APPROVED (cash or no cash, you need to get approved to buy it).

December gets even better with a 59% residual(+1%) same .00125 money factor.

Due to new rates, you have to RESUBMIT your BMW financial app to get approved for the purchase in December. So on the 28th of December I submit a new BMW financial app and wait to get approved again.


*I will be using fake numbers to determine our income.*

This is the second time I go fill one out, except my wife isn't here this time around, so I put a total of $50,000 under just MY name because that is the household total income.
They ask for an income statement for 2012 on the 30th of December, I provide it and they fax it to BMW NA.
DECLINED.

According to BMW, I lied on my credit app. I was making significantly less in October 2013 when I got approved with 3 cars in my garage. Then in December, with one less loan, with more money, I get DECLINED?

-How could this be? Turns out when I filled our the application in Oct. 2013, I put in my wives and mine income in twice, so $50,000 each. Our sales guy, noticing it, splits it $25,000 each because both of our names are on it yet SAME company (self employed). APPROVED for October.
-December, 2013. I turn in the app again, with no wife there, I put $50,000 down on the app just for me AND provided a 2012 income tax statement in 2013. How could they NOT realize that it's still the same company and that I just put my wife in the deal because THEY told us it would be easier to get approved with two people splitting the income. I think they approved me on the basis that I only make $25,000 so when I filled out a new one by myself, the $50,000 was me lying on a credit application. Doesn't this lower my credit as well?!

Oh I forgot the kicker! They said my 2012 tax income statement is OUT OF DATE because now it's 2014.

No one even has their 2013 taxes done yet!

Where am I now? Possibly getting screwed on behalf of their negligence. The January rates, lose a $1000 loyalty, MF spikes, residuals go down 1% and I lose the holiday cash of $1500.

Now, it's not a terrible situation. I'm SO frustrated going to the dealership like 4 times already in 3 days to provide paperwork and still end up getting screwed over. This is a vacation and a couple of thousand dollars at play here.


Any help would be appreciated. Hope it's understandable to read!
Hard to figure out your situation, but based on what I read you were asked to verify income with taxes? Cash purchase there is no approval needed, nor income did it in 2012 not a problem. Looks like your credit score has raised some questions, and needing two incomes to make the purchase happen. Good luck, but don't over extend yourself on a car as this could be a sign to back away financially. Remember a car is a depreciating asset, and can drain finances if you allow it.
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      01-05-2014, 08:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer6 View Post
Hard to figure out your situation, but based on what I read you were asked to verify income with taxes? Cash purchase there is no approval needed, nor income did it in 2012 not a problem. Looks like your credit score has raised some questions, and needing two incomes to make the purchase happen. Good luck, but don't over extend yourself on a car as this could be a sign to back away financially. Remember a car is a depreciating asset, and can drain finances if you allow it.
My credit score is over 800. I just got approved 2 months before with 2 BMW's in the garage.

Now it's 1 BMW in the garage, and I got declined because I made significantly more income on my 2nd credit app aka. pretty much "lying" to BMW financial how much I make?

Both of which figures is MORE than enough to get approve + add in my credit score. I got approved for the Super Elite Credit from BMW just 2 months ago no issues.

Imagine you apply with your wife, and you split the money 50/50. It would say on your name... 50% of the income. 50% on your wives. Right?

So now, I go in the 2nd time to resubmit my app, but since my wife isn't there.. I put the whole household income aka 100% of it.. on my name.
DECLINED.

I think I got approved at 50% but when I showed them I make twice as much two months later, they declined because I'm "lying".

This was their EXACT reasoning in writing:
“Application submitted as another center lists income significantly less than income listed on this application. Please advise and provide the POI for further consideration.”

Then the sales guy adds:

"So until you provide proof of your $xxx per year, they are declining to approve your application."

At this point, I came in with all the documentation aka. income tax statement for 2012, on the 1st of January, at which they email back the next day,

"The income statement you provided is out of date. Please provide us with a more recent one."

There is NO income tax statement for 2013 YET.

So not only did the BMW financial guy mess up and approve me on less income made two months ago, now that I listed the correct amount of income, they are calling BS basically.. even though I got approved with less money in the bank (according to them).

Plus add in the fact that they are asking for documention (income statement proof) that doesn't exist yet.
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      01-05-2014, 08:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipped B6 View Post
My credit score is over 800. I just got approved 2 months before with 2 BMW's in the garage.

Now it's 1 BMW in the garage, and I got declined because I made significantly more income on my 2nd credit app aka. pretty much "lying" to BMW financial how much I make?

Both of which figures is MORE than enough to get approve + add in my credit score. I got approved for the Super Elite Credit from BMW just 2 months ago no issues.

Imagine you apply with your wife, and you split the money 50/50. It would say on your name... 50% of the income. 50% on your wives. Right?

So now, I go in the 2nd time to resubmit my app, but since my wife isn't there.. I put the whole household income aka 100% of it.. on my name.
DECLINED.

I think I got approved at 50% but when I showed them I make twice as much two months later, they declined because I'm "lying".

This was their EXACT reasoning in writing:
“Application submitted as another center lists income significantly less than income listed on this application. Please advise and provide the POI for further consideration.”

Then the sales guy adds:

"So until you provide proof of your $xxx per year, they are declining to approve your application."

At this point, I came in with all the documentation aka. income tax statement for 2012, on the 1st of January, at which they email back the next day,

"The income statement you provided is out of date. Please provide us with a more recent one."

There is NO income tax statement for 2013 YET.

So not only did the BMW financial guy mess up and approve me on less income made two months ago, now that I listed the correct amount of income, they are calling BS basically.. even though I got approved with less money in the bank (according to them).

Plus add in the fact that they are asking for documention (income statement proof) that doesn't exist yet.

Man
What makes me upset most is yiu were the one getting the 2014 M5 for a steal price 16k off MSRP posting 920$ per month post -

Well
What BMW FS DID to you is unacceptable and quite idiotic, not ridiculous they did that because computer did it first time when declined but after you took the time to explain then what the heck!!!? They should figure out what exactly went wrong!!
OMG
I am still surprised they did that to you after 7 to years relationship!! Go to MB dealership and apply for E63 and if you get approved
You can either do it or take application and fax it to BMW FS -
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      01-05-2014, 08:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
Man
What makes me upset most is yiu were the one getting the 2014 M5 for a steal price 16k off MSRP posting 920$ per month post -

Well
What BMW FS DID to you is unacceptable and quite idiotic, not ridiculous they did that because computer did it first time when declined but after you took the time to explain then what the heck!!!? They should figure out what exactly went wrong!!
OMG
I am still surprised they did that to you after 7 to years relationship!! Go to MB dealership and apply for E63 and if you get approved
You can either do it or take application and fax it to BMW FS -

I know right? My damn luck. Luckily I got them to honor the deal and just place an order down instead due to the issues currently.

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      01-05-2014, 09:06 PM   #9
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It seems that they did not reject you based on ability but because of a pretty glaring discrepancy. All they are asking is that you resolve the confusion that you inadvertently created by using vastly different income figures. And there are many ways to establish income other than tax returns. Given the mess of the credit crisis resulting at least in part by some very sloppy lending practices, I for one, am happy to see some return to responsible due diligence. It does suck that you got caught up in this, but if you look at it from the outside, it may actually be a positive and responsible act.
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      01-05-2014, 09:33 PM   #10
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      01-05-2014, 10:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipped B6 View Post
My credit score is over 800. I just got approved 2 months before with 2 BMW's in the garage.

Now it's 1 BMW in the garage, and I got declined because I made significantly more income on my 2nd credit app aka. pretty much "lying" to BMW financial how much I make?

Both of which figures is MORE than enough to get approve + add in my credit score. I got approved for the Super Elite Credit from BMW just 2 months ago no issues.

Imagine you apply with your wife, and you split the money 50/50. It would say on your name... 50% of the income. 50% on your wives. Right?

So now, I go in the 2nd time to resubmit my app, but since my wife isn't there.. I put the whole household income aka 100% of it.. on my name.
DECLINED.

I think I got approved at 50% but when I showed them I make twice as much two months later, they declined because I'm "lying".

This was their EXACT reasoning in writing:
“Application submitted as another center lists income significantly less than income listed on this application. Please advise and provide the POI for further consideration.”

Then the sales guy adds:

"So until you provide proof of your $xxx per year, they are declining to approve your application."

At this point, I came in with all the documentation aka. income tax statement for 2012, on the 1st of January, at which they email back the next day,

"The income statement you provided is out of date. Please provide us with a more recent one."

There is NO income tax statement for 2013 YET.

So not only did the BMW financial guy mess up and approve me on less income made two months ago, now that I listed the correct amount of income, they are calling BS basically.. even though I got approved with less money in the bank (according to them).

Plus add in the fact that they are asking for documention (income statement proof) that doesn't exist yet.
Terrible, may want to try and deal with the owner of the facility to get it cleared up. First of all you are a current BMW owner they don't want to loose! Good luck man!
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      01-05-2014, 10:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewM5 View Post
It seems that they did not reject you based on ability but because of a pretty glaring discrepancy. All they are asking is that you resolve the confusion that you inadvertently created by using vastly different income figures. And there are many ways to establish income other than tax returns. Given the mess of the credit crisis resulting at least in part by some very sloppy lending practices, I for one, am happy to see some return to responsible due diligence. It does suck that you got caught up in this, but if you look at it from the outside, it may actually be a positive and responsible act.
I'd love to prove the situation to them, but even if I get it straightened out, will they honor the December rates even if it's a fail on their part?

Also, since I'm self employed. I can't show them. I can go to one of my stores, print out a year-total sales for 2013, but that doesn't count for them. I even asked. So either that or tax income statement. Basically, legal government issued documentation.
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      01-06-2014, 09:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipped B6 View Post
I'd love to prove the situation to them, but even if I get it straightened out, will they honor the December rates even if it's a fail on their part?

Also, since I'm self employed. I can't show them. I can go to one of my stores, print out a year-total sales for 2013, but that doesn't count for them. I even asked. So either that or tax income statement. Basically, legal government issued documentation.
Have a good friend thats a crime defense lawyer. Deals with a lot of cash. He makes a good amount more then me and also had the same problem as you due to what they claim on taxes. He ended up having to pay cash for his car and house.
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      01-06-2014, 02:37 PM   #14
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Dealership 101--- the finance department needs to call in to FS and explain the issue. This happens all the time and it takes a simple tool called ...... the phone to rectify. Unless there are other underlying issues at hand this seems like a lot of overcooking. I have seen GSM's and GM's of dealers handle credit much lower than this with their captive bank.

Move past your salesman and find the GSM or GM of the dealer. Im not sure how big the store is so the finance director might be a good option too.

As for income acceptability, each lender has their own p and p on household income. I wouldnt accept as I cant collect on a household when or if a debt defaults. But like I said have the dealership contact the right people at FS.
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      01-06-2014, 06:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinny02 View Post
Have a good friend thats a crime defense lawyer. Deals with a lot of cash. He makes a good amount more then me and also had the same problem as you due to what they claim on taxes. He ended up having to pay cash for his car and house.
Forgive me if I am not sympathetic to your friend who can't get "credit" for his actual income because it is cash based and he does not report it so that he can cheat on his taxes. Of course, he could always choose to do the right (and legal) thing and declare his actual income.
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      01-06-2014, 06:59 PM   #16
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[QUOTE=Chipped B6;15221913

Also, since I'm self employed. I can't show them. I can go to one of my stores, print out a year-total sales for 2013, but that doesn't count for them. I even asked. So either that or tax income statement. Basically, legal government issued documentation.[/QUOTE]

You don't pay yourself a salary?
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      01-06-2014, 07:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewM5 View Post
Forgive me if I am not sympathetic to your friend who can't get "credit" for his actual income because it is cash based and he does not report it so that he can cheat on his taxes. Of course, he could always choose to do the right (and legal) thing and declare his actual income.
I agree.
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      01-07-2014, 03:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewM5 View Post
It seems that they did not reject you based on ability but because of a pretty glaring discrepancy. All they are asking is that you resolve the confusion that you inadvertently created by using vastly different income figures. And there are many ways to establish income other than tax returns. Given the mess of the credit crisis resulting at least in part by some very sloppy lending practices, I for one, am happy to see some return to responsible due diligence. It does suck that you got caught up in this, but if you look at it from the outside, it may actually be a positive and responsible act.
+1 all I had to do was show them current account balances both cash and market and that I actually worked... And I got approved for 2.99 and boom cars mine driving now as a 20 something.

On the flip side I was not approved for any kind of lease even offering to pay the entire lease up front lol (this after buying 5 cars ever 6 months for the past few years in cash).

They said now that I'll have a track record with payments made to BMWFS I should be fine from now on. For lease or buying... The weird thing is 4months prior I tried to finance an m3 and they wanted like 70% of the car up front and a 3.19 apr for the remainder lol got a better deal on an m5 in October lmao

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      01-07-2014, 05:15 PM   #19
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weird.. there wasn't a single time BMWFS asked for "proof of income."

Only thing was my SS # for my credit score.
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      01-07-2014, 05:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkim85 View Post
weird.. there wasn't a single time BMWFS asked for "proof of income."

Only thing was my SS # for my credit score.
+1

Never heard of any of the above mentioned checks. My sales rep has everything on file so all I need to do is show up, pick out the car and pick up.
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      01-19-2014, 07:16 PM   #21
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So you never told us what happened with BMW financial services and you?
Did you end up with M5 kr canceled the whole car leasing thing?

Juat curious because remember your deal was the best M5 2014 of the century -
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      01-19-2014, 07:26 PM   #22
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Deal is on and ready to go. I got a February allocation!
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