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      07-17-2018, 10:34 AM   #1
Joelslasers
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Odd issue with drivetrain

2013 F10 M5 with DCT
Alright, so I’ve had the car for the past 12,000 miles (currently at 93k or so) and i’m just now having an issue that I can’t pinpoint, and it’s sporadic with no apparent cause. This has not happened in the past 12,000 miles / 8 months I’ve had it.

What i’m used to with the car: Cruising along at any speed, when you let off the gas, the vehicle typically acts like a manual, in the sense that the clutch is still engaged and the car essentially engine brakes (also, the efficient dynamics are engaged at this point and are allegedly charging the battery)

What’s happening sporadically: you are cruising along at any speed, and when you let off the gas, it acts normal for about a second or so as described above (and it says efficient dynamics is working and is charging). However, after about a second, the clutch seemingly disengages and the RPM’s drop about by 100 or so, and the car seems to cost with little resistance (and is no longer charging, according to the efficient dynamics gauge). When you give it gas after this, the car hesitates and the rpms shoot up by about 200 or so, then the clutch seemingly grabs and the rpms settle down and everything is normal after that, until you let off the gas and the process repeats. When you are on the gas at all, whether accelerating or not, it is quick to respond with throttle input. But if you let off the gas, it does this whole thing and is massively delayed.

The clutches do not slip at wot, so that’s not the issue. I should mention I have a BMS piggy back tune, but it’s been on the car since before I bought it. And this happens in any and every mode. No faults pop up either.
I can’t say for sure, but I’ll mention this anyways: the car may feel down on power sometimes. But I can’t say for sure. Notably, when it does this whole thing. But if the car is not acting up and doing this, it MAY have the power it should. But I can’t say whether it’s down on power when it does this or not.
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      07-17-2018, 11:57 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelslasers View Post
2013 F10 M5 with DCT
Alright, so I’ve had the car for the past 12,000 miles (currently at 93k or so) and i’m just now having an issue that I can’t pinpoint, and it’s sporadic with no apparent cause. This has not happened in the past 12,000 miles / 8 months I’ve had it.

What i’m used to with the car: Cruising along at any speed, when you let off the gas, the vehicle typically acts like a manual, in the sense that the clutch is still engaged and the car essentially engine brakes (also, the efficient dynamics are engaged at this point and are allegedly charging the battery)

What’s happening sporadically: you are cruising along at any speed, and when you let off the gas, it acts normal for about a second or so as described above (and it says efficient dynamics is working and is charging). However, after about a second, the clutch seemingly disengages and the RPM’s drop about by 100 or so, and the car seems to cost with little resistance (and is no longer charging, according to the efficient dynamics gauge). When you give it gas after this, the car hesitates and the rpms shoot up by about 200 or so, then the clutch seemingly grabs and the rpms settle down and everything is normal after that, until you let off the gas and the process repeats. When you are on the gas at all, whether accelerating or not, it is quick to respond with throttle input. But if you let off the gas, it does this whole thing and is massively delayed.

The clutches do not slip at wot, so that’s not the issue. I should mention I have a BMS piggy back tune, but it’s been on the car since before I bought it. And this happens in any and every mode. No faults pop up either.
I can’t say for sure, but I’ll mention this anyways: the car may feel down on power sometimes. But I can’t say for sure. Notably, when it does this whole thing. But if the car is not acting up and doing this, it MAY have the power it should. But I can’t say whether it’s down on power when it does this or not.
This sounds similar if not the same as what happened to a friend of mine. He had 13 or 14, can't remember which. Anyway, he had it in to BMW many times and even got BMWNA involved. Long story short, according to him it started happening after BMW installed a software update. Who knows for sure what caused it to start, but they could never fix it (or acknowledge that there was a problem). The good news for him was that it was a lease. It might be worth taking it to the dealer and either get the software version checked or at least see if they've heard of the problem before.

Good luck!
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      07-17-2018, 12:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technician117 View Post
It might be worth taking it to the dealer and either get the software version checked or at least see if they've heard of the problem before.

Good luck!
How would that work if my car is coded with my laptop and the Carly adapter? If they try to update it or anything, wont that mess it up to where I can no longer code it?
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      07-17-2018, 12:55 PM   #4
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Do you still have warranty? Have you tried taking it to the dealer yet? This is becoming a recurring issue on a number of F10 M5's that I know of. I don't yet know of a proper diagnosis and I'm working on finding the cause of this problem myself. I may know more in a few weeks.
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      07-17-2018, 12:59 PM   #5
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I have an aftermarket warranty, but I’d like to know the issue beforehand, if it’s possible.
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      07-17-2018, 01:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelslasers View Post
I have an aftermarket warranty, but I'd like to know the issue beforehand, if it's possible.
I don't think it's possible right now. It only seems to be happening on higher mileage F10 M5's. We may have reason to believe it has something to do with the differential computer but it's still unconfirmed. I haven't figured it out yet myself. Your best bet is to take it to the dealer if you want to use your extended warranty and have them try to diagnose it. I wasn't going to post anything about this because I still have yet to find the cause but since you made a post on this yesterday, it's a prudent time to start talking about it, as you are not the only one.
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      07-17-2018, 01:56 PM   #7
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Not just me then, huh?
Interesting.
Is there a common theme among the cars having this issue? A common anything?
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      07-17-2018, 03:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelslasers View Post
Not just me then, huh?
Interesting.
Is there a common theme among the cars having this issue? A common anything?
Yeah just exactly what you pointed out. How the clutch seemingly disengages when you let off the throttle and then has a rough re-engagement when you get back on the throttle while only cruising on the highway. I've only been able to duplicate it in 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th gears. It seems to be more duplicate-able after you do a hard pull on the highway and then go easy on the throttle. And as you pointed out there is no problem going WOT in lower gears, namely, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Hoping to figure this out very soon as my extended warranty is expiring on Sept 1st.
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      07-17-2018, 04:19 PM   #9
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Yeah it seems to do it in all the modes and configurations. (Efficient, sport, sport plus), manual/auto, trans 1,3, and 3, traction on/off, M2 mode (everything ready for launch), etc.
if I screw with it enough, sometimes I can get it to start acting normal.
Example: cruising along at let’s say 70mph, and i will rapidly downshift twice to 5th, sometimes it’ll start acting normal (maybe coincidence).
Also, when it’s acting up, if I am going ~30mph in 2nd and floor it, it’ll seem somewhat sluggish until about 5k rpm or something. Then the power just kind of hits hard. It seems to feel different from the Variable Valve Lift doing its thing.
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      07-18-2018, 11:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelslasers View Post
How would that work if my car is coded with my laptop and the Carly adapter? If they try to update it or anything, wont that mess it up to where I can no longer code it?
The gentleman who's car had the problems had a Dinan tune. It seemed they worked around it. They also blamed it on the tune so he removed it and still had the problem.
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      07-18-2018, 01:52 PM   #11
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So I might have found what settings keep it working. It seems to function normally with: manual mode, setting 2 or 3, traction completely off (and maybe throttle in sport plus)
But still feels like it’s maybe down on power anyhow. It seems to me that if it WANTS to act up, there’s a lack of power regardless of whether you change the settings to prevent this clutch disengaging issue. But I can’t tell if it’s down on power for sure.
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      07-18-2018, 03:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelslasers View Post
So I might have found what settings keep it working. It seems to function normally with: manual mode, setting 2 or 3, traction completely off (and maybe throttle in sport plus)
But still feels like it's maybe down on power anyhow. It seems to me that if it WANTS to act up, there's a lack of power regardless of whether you change the settings to prevent this clutch disengaging issue. But I can't tell if it's down on power for sure.
Only way to tell is to use a vBox and record times and see if you get different times based on different settings maybe. Or download the Dragy App and use that one instead as vBox's are expensive. I personally don't feel the car is down on power but it's just an annoying issue for sure.
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      07-18-2018, 03:30 PM   #13
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Can you try those setting I mentioned and see what you think? It seems to go around the issue. Could be helpful in narrowing down the problem
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      07-21-2018, 11:25 AM   #14
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I have a diff laying around if you need it $500
Plus shipping
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