M5POST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   M5POST - BMW M5 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-21-2021, 10:39 AM   #177
tdott
Brigadier General
2842
Rep
3,242
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL / 6ix

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
OK. as I said that HAM was lapped during his crash by the rest of the field .

1• HAM went off in the gravel and crashed in the wall.
2• Red Flag showed up by the crash of BOT vs RUS .
3• HAM's car was repaired during the Red Flag.
4• HAM got his postion back (P9) and took part of the re-start of the race.
5• HAM pulled through the field to P2 and stranded 22 sec. behind MAX .
6• No one saw that HAM un-lapped himself .
7• That's actually why HAM ran one (1) lap short 62/63 laps .

Mate .Please have a read => https://www.crash.net/f1/news/975933...are-f1-mistake

•HAM was able to recover his Mercedes from the gravel by engaging reverse but by the time he had escaped he was already a lap down and had slipped to ninth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Mate .Did "you saw HAM un-lapping himself ?

I didn't saw it ,or did I missed it ?


You guys must not understand racing, the lapped cars were called to the front of the pit lane before other cars, they were all allowed to do a full lap to un-lap themselves before joining the rest of the grid.

It is also common for cars to be allowed to un-lap themselves during a safety car.

This doesn't mean they completed less laps than the race.
Appreciate 1
MKSixer32262.50
      04-21-2021, 10:41 AM   #178
tdott
Brigadier General
2842
Rep
3,242
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL / 6ix

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches View Post
How do you figure he ran a lap short?
Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
This.
In all the kerfuffle did the timekeepers knock on a lap to hammy by mistake...
See post above, clearly someone doesn't understand the rules.
Appreciate 2
MKSixer32262.50
Bongoxxx666.50
      04-22-2021, 10:56 AM   #179
tdott
Brigadier General
2842
Rep
3,242
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL / 6ix

iTrader: (3)

Seems like the gossip spreaders only like that "other" thread they are trying to keep alive.
Appreciate 2
      04-22-2021, 12:36 PM   #180
///M Power-Belgium
Lieutenant General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
34155
Rep
17,786
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Seems like the gossip spreaders only like that "other" thread they are trying to keep alive.
Mate .Not everyone is welcome in this thread . Check # 9 + 12 => https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1814583

Merc fanboys like you are more than welcome !


Over and out...
__________________
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 2
M5Rick19576.50
      04-22-2021, 01:42 PM   #181
Killed by Death
Lieutenant Colonel
Killed by Death's Avatar
United_States
3418
Rep
1,521
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
You guys must not understand racing, the lapped cars were called to the front of the pit lane before other cars, they were all allowed to do a full lap to un-lap themselves before joining the rest of the grid.

It is also common for cars to be allowed to un-lap themselves during a safety car.

This doesn't mean they completed less laps than the race.
IMHO, It would have been just as easy and more fair to do the following. Call lead lap cars to the front behind the safety car. Cars a lap down could then fall inline without gaining an advantage. YES, I'm sure there is some rule against it.

I've never liked unfair wave arounds in any series. If you are a lap down you screwed up and shouldn't be awarded for it.

Lapped cars didn't "Complete" few laps they "Competed" fewer laps. In other words they got a free parade lap while the leaders had to sit and suck on it.
__________________
Appreciate 3
      04-22-2021, 03:17 PM   #182
yco
i'm just saying
yco's Avatar
4546
Rep
2,572
Posts

Drives: E71 X6M '10 (sold)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Istanbul & Kyiv

iTrader: (0)

more than 10 cars unlapped themselves.. quite sometime now that under SC or red flag situation race director can decide to do this to spice things up.. just waiting for Max fans reaction if he benefits from a similar situation..

and actually Max was lucky as well he made a half spin not a full one.. if he d spin out, cars wouldnt need to wait for him and Max d have only few hundred meters to regain his position which first SC line.. that was lucky also..
__________________
"Race car driving is like sex. All guys think they're good at it." Jay Leno
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2021, 03:41 PM   #183
tdott
Brigadier General
2842
Rep
3,242
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL / 6ix

iTrader: (3)

Remember 2020 Hungarian GP, Max crashed on the reconnaissance lap ahead of the race, damaging the front-left of his Red Bull, but his team managed to complete repairs in time for the start.

He got lucky there also, but apparently only someone else gets lucky.
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2021, 03:43 PM   #184
Killed by Death
Lieutenant Colonel
Killed by Death's Avatar
United_States
3418
Rep
1,521
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
more than 10 cars unlapped themselves.. quite sometime now that under SC or red flag situation race director can decide to do this to spice things up.. just waiting for Max fans reaction if he benefits from a similar situation..

and actually Max was lucky as well he made a half spin not a full one.. if he d spin out, cars wouldnt need to wait for him and Max d have only few hundred meters to regain his position which first SC line.. that was lucky also..
Not Max fan here BTW. But if the race director wanted to spice things up another standing start could have done that.
__________________
Appreciate 1
      04-22-2021, 03:44 PM   #185
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2099
Rep
11,446
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
IMHO, It would have been just as easy and more fair to do the following. Call lead lap cars to the front behind the safety car. Cars a lap down could then fall inline without gaining an advantage. YES, I'm sure there is some rule against it.

I've never liked unfair wave arounds in any series. If you are a lap down you screwed up and shouldn't be awarded for it.

Lapped cars didn't "Complete" few laps they "Competed" fewer laps. In other words they got a free parade lap while the leaders had to sit and suck on it.
Yes there are rules, but the whole point is to make it fair for the lead cars to compete with each other and not be unfairly impeded by the lapped cars on restart.
It makes for better racing on restart.
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2021, 03:46 PM   #186
tdott
Brigadier General
2842
Rep
3,242
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL / 6ix

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Mate .Not everyone is welcome in this thread . Check # 9 + 12 => https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1814583

Merc fanboys like you are more than welcome !


Over and out...
Oh, so you can't talk about F1 without being Max biased / blinded. Got it, enjoy the max fanboi/soap opera thread. I won't be going back.

Appreciate 1
      04-22-2021, 03:47 PM   #187
Killed by Death
Lieutenant Colonel
Killed by Death's Avatar
United_States
3418
Rep
1,521
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Yes there are rules, but the whole point is to make it fair for the lead cars to compete with each other and not be unfairly impeded by the lapped cars on restart.
It makes for better racing on restart.
I get it, but my previous suggestion would have accomplished the same thing.
__________________
Appreciate 2
M5Rick19576.50
      04-22-2021, 03:48 PM   #188
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2099
Rep
11,446
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
more than 10 cars unlapped themselves.. quite sometime now that under SC or red flag situation race director can decide to do this to spice things up.. just waiting for Max fans reaction if he benefits from a similar situation..

and actually Max was lucky as well he made a half spin not a full one.. if he d spin out, cars wouldnt need to wait for him and Max d have only few hundred meters to regain his position which first SC line.. that was lucky also..
Actually Max would not have been able to regain his position.
He would have to hold the position where he re-entered the track. (no passing under SC)
This already happened in this race (I forget who it was that was penalized for this)

Last edited by inTgr8r; 04-22-2021 at 03:54 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2021, 03:53 PM   #189
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2099
Rep
11,446
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
I get it, but my previous suggestion would have accomplished the same thing.
Maybe...
But I think it maybe easier to send them around than cherry pick the leaders out of the pack and move them up.
I agree either way would accomplish a similar thing though.
Appreciate 1
      04-22-2021, 04:20 PM   #190
Autobacs
Lieutenant
Autobacs's Avatar
564
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW X5M
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: WA state

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
more than 10 cars unlapped themselves.. quite sometime now that under SC or red flag situation race director can decide to do this to spice things up.. just waiting for Max fans reaction if he benefits from a similar situation..

and actually Max was lucky as well he made a half spin not a full one.. if he d spin out, cars wouldnt need to wait for him and Max d have only few hundred meters to regain his position which first SC line.. that was lucky also..
That was not luck. That was skill that he caught his spin. Same as taking the lead starting from third in wet conditions.

Having said that, Lewis was not lucky to unlap himself, that was the rules for everyone.
__________________
2011 BMW X5M
2010 Nissan GTR Elite Prime
2013 Lexus 450H
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2021, 05:21 PM   #191
Killed by Death
Lieutenant Colonel
Killed by Death's Avatar
United_States
3418
Rep
1,521
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobacs View Post
Having said that, Lewis was not lucky to unlap himself, that was the rules for everyone.
That said, all of them were lucky. HAM is going to draw more heat because he is World Champion. Not much use mentioning the others.
__________________
Appreciate 1
      04-22-2021, 05:40 PM   #192
yco
i'm just saying
yco's Avatar
4546
Rep
2,572
Posts

Drives: E71 X6M '10 (sold)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Istanbul & Kyiv

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Actually Max would not have been able to regain his position.
He would have to hold the position where he re-entered the track. (no passing under SC)
This already happened in this race (I forget who it was that was penalized for this)
actually there is a thin and a bit confusing line between in very similar situations..

on formation lap, drivers can take their places back.. actually they have to.. Kimi went off on formation lap but he didnt take the position back.. and he got a penalty..

Perez went off under SC but actually during normal "race lap" since SC laps counts as normal laps as well.. thats why he got a penalty..

in Max's case.. since the race was red flagged its basically a formation lap.. and he could get back his position until SC line at the pit entry..

this is what Masi said about it..

"After a suspension, it is considered a race lap but in the same sort of principles as a formation lap," Masi explained. "So if a car was out of position, it would be like a formation lap in that they can regain that position as long as it's before Safety Car line one. That's the general principle."

sounds a bit confusing but actually simple..

formation lap = you can take your position back..
under SC = you cant take back your position..
__________________
"Race car driving is like sex. All guys think they're good at it." Jay Leno
Appreciate 2
      04-22-2021, 06:07 PM   #193
Killed by Death
Lieutenant Colonel
Killed by Death's Avatar
United_States
3418
Rep
1,521
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
actually there is a thin and a bit confusing line between in very similar situations..

Kimi went off on formation lap but he didnt take the position back.. and he got a penalty..

in Max's case.. since the race was red flagged its basically a formation lap.. and he could get back his position until SC line at the pit entry..

this is what Masi said about it..

"After a suspension, it is considered a race lap but in the same sort of principles as a formation lap," Masi explained. "So if a car was out of position, it would be like a formation lap in that they can regain that position as long as it's before Safety Car line one. That's the general principle."

sounds a bit confusing but actually simple..

formation lap = you can take your position back..
under SC = you cant take back your position..
Simple yet still confuses people and teams. Kimi wanted to take his place back and the team told him not to.

I read somewhere that since Kimi didn't take his place back he was supposed to enter pit lane and start from there ....hence the 30 second penalty.

Found it: Explanation below:

https://www.grandprix247.com/2021/04...omoted-to-p10/
__________________

Last edited by Killed by Death; 04-22-2021 at 06:20 PM..
Appreciate 2
inTgr8r2098.50
yco4545.50
      04-22-2021, 06:27 PM   #194
Bongoxxx
Lieutenant
667
Rep
414
Posts

Drives: 2018 340 XDrive
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Courtice, Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
Not Max fan here BTW. But if the race director wanted to spice things up another standing start could have done that.
I wish they had done another standing start, would have definitely made it more interesting.
__________________
Current: 2018 340 xDrive M-Sport Mineral Grey
Previous: 2016 328 xDrive Alpine White
Appreciate 2
      04-22-2021, 09:35 PM   #195
Killed by Death
Lieutenant Colonel
Killed by Death's Avatar
United_States
3418
Rep
1,521
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Confusing Raikkonen penalty prompts restart rule change.

"Fortunately...the FIA will have regulations fixed by the time Formula 1 arrives at Portimao for the Portuguese Grand Prix.

Auto Motor und Sport report that Article 42.6, which ruled Raikkonen should have started from the pit lane after failing to regain his position, will be updated to apply only to a formation lap before a standing start.

In Imola, Article 42.6 had clashed with Rule 42.12 which prohibits overtaking behind the Safety Car when the lights are switched off"
__________________
Appreciate 3
yco4545.50
inTgr8r2098.50
      04-23-2021, 02:31 AM   #196
SenorFunkyPants
Brigadier General
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
2327
Rep
4,288
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongoxxx View Post
I wish they had done another standing start, would have definitely made it more interesting.
IIUC they didn't have a starting start after the red flag because there was still a significant grip delta between one side of the track and the other...giving the possibility of carnage as cars all tried to get onto the racing line but with different rates of acceleration.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:57 PM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST