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      02-23-2020, 01:15 PM   #1
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Michelin PSS to Michelin PS4S to Bridgestone RE980AS

I purchased a 2013 M5 in the summer of 2018 with 46k miles, with a year+ of BMW CPO warranty remaining. Before finalizing on a price, I paid to have a Maryland State Inspection performed at the BMW dealer where this vehicle had had past services and repairs performed. This gave me great negotiating power and saved me thousands of dollars because, to pass Maryland's State Inspection, the vehicle needed new rotors, pads, and tires. Most every item was at, or just below, minimum specifications.

After purchasing the vehicle, I installed OEM rotors with Akebono pads. Search my posts if you'd like to determine where and how much these items cost me. BTW, the BMW rotors were purchased at a great price from a BMW dealer in Atlanta.

Tires:

The Michelin Pilot Super Sport front (265/35/20) and rear (295/30/20) tires were worn out to ~3/32" but were not too noisy and still had okay at grip on the road as long as the road was not damp or wet. If the road was wet, all bets were off and I needed to drive very modestly.
{On from an unknown mileage to 46,XXX miles}

A couple of weeks later, Michelin Pilot Sport 4S front (265/35/20) and rear (305/30/20) tires were installed. Once the new tires were installed it was immediately apparent dry and wet grip had been increased and increased significantly. Unfortunately, I thought the new MPS4S tires were a bit noisy. Now the MPS4S tires have just over 25k (HARD) miles which is incredible! Typically, I manage around 15k miles on premium-brand (Mich/Conti/Bridg) summer ultra-high-performance tires and then they are worn out. These MPS4S tires have great longevity. Now to my opinions on the negatives: (A) they have been a bit noisy from day one (B) after ~15k miles they seemed to tram (find groves in the road) more than the worn MPSS. But this may be due to the fact that the rears are wider than OEM specifications allow. (C) were better than expected to 40-45F, but it is very clear when temps get in the 30s or below, they really should not be used.
{On from 46,XXX to 71,XXX miles}

I just purchased Bridgestone POTENZA RE980AS front (265/35/20) and rear (305/30/20) tires. The main reason I went with the Bridgestone tire is there are just too many cold days where I live. Also, I often take trips to OH when temperatures can get into the 20s from October through April.
{On from 71,XXX to 90,XXX miles and still going}

I will report back my likes and dislikes on these Bridgestone tires. They should be better in the cold but the specs show they are a heavy tire when compared to Michelins. The tire's compound and weight will not help me at the drag strip.
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Last edited by 1320racer; 11-08-2022 at 04:31 AM.. Reason: added tire mileage
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      02-26-2020, 10:39 AM   #2
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On several forums, I have read posts stating some early M5s have an inherent shake of the steering wheel near 80-85 mph and beyond. For over 10 months, I too have noticed my 2013's steering wheel shaking when I drove 85+ mph. Hitting the brakes and accelerating above 85 mph had no discernible impact. The pads and rotors were less than a year old and were verified to be in great shape. I also had all the wheels and tires checked twice to determine if they were bent and/or needed to be rebalanced. Both dealers found the wheels to be straight and the tires to be balanced. Both stated that the tires were worn evenly and not feathered/chunked. Both recommended new tires even when all tires had enough tread for safe driving (at or above 4/32").

I should have changed the tires sooner. I waited another two months and just last week my vehicle seemed to now shudder/shake even at reduced speeds. I leaned under the car again looked at the tires but saw nothing but worn tires (see top pic). This week I took off the rear wheels and noticed the inside edge of one tire had a BIG problem. One location had worn through the cords to the point of exposing the tire's internal steel belts. I am very lucky that the driver's side rear did not go flat or worse -- blow out. (see bottom pic).

The rear Bridgestone tires from Costco were installed yesterday. Now I have no shudder/shake and there's a very small steering wheel shake that I hope will go away once the new front tires are installed. Unfortunately, they are currently on backorder.

When time allows, I will inform everybody how to get around Costco's policy about NEVER installing tire sizes different from the plaque inside your door or manual.


EDIT/UPDATE:
Most automotive tires Costco sells and installs come with a 5 or 6-year warranty:
  • free patching
  • free rebalancing
  • free nitrogen refills
  • free road hazard: tire replacement for nails/bolts/etc in shoulder or sidewall

The workaround to have Costco install slightly different than stock tire sizes "within reason" is to remove the wheels from your vehicle and drop them off. Then they are not "officially" installing nonstandard tire sizes on your vehicle. You are. In my case, the rear wheels already had 305/30/20 sized tires installed, which they are not significantly different than stock and they never even gave it a second thought.


Location: 6675 Marie Curie Dr, Elkridge, MD 21075
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Last edited by 1320racer; 02-29-2020 at 07:22 PM.. Reason: Added Costco Tire Swap Work Around
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      02-26-2020, 09:16 PM   #3
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I have a 2013. Around 85 to 90 the shimmy is there. Over 105 it goes away. It is a balance/harmonics thing. If you PROPERLY Road Force Balance (with a properly calibrated machine) the tires and keep the pressure at 38-39 psi cold, the shimmy pretty much goes away. These cars All F10 M5's are sensitive to any slight imbalance in the wheels.
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      02-27-2020, 05:27 AM   #4
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This is good information. I feel our M5s are somewhat finicky vehicles and we are contending with (as you have suggested) a balance in harmonics. We are contending with multiple variables (tires, wheels, rotors, suspension).

Are the pressures you are suggesting trial and error on your part, well known from other M5 owners or what was suggested by your local or BMW USA contact? I run typically between 33-35 cold PSI trying to smooth the ride. The plaque inside the door suggests 35 cold PSI but I will give a try running higher PSIs. I believe most of my specific steering wheel shake was due to my tires being much more worn than I thought.
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      02-27-2020, 05:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1320racer View Post
This is good information. I feel our M5s are somewhat finicky vehicles and we are contending with (as you have suggested) a balance in harmonics. We are contending with multiple aging/fluid variables (tires, wheels, rotors, suspension).

Are the pressures you are suggesting trial and error on your part, well known from other M5 owners or what was suggested by your local or BMW USA contact? I run typically between 33-35 cold PSI trying to smooth the ride. The plaque inside the door suggests 35 cold PSI but I will give a try running higher PSIs. I believe most (not all) of my specific steering wheel shake was due to my tires being much more worn than I thought.
Yeah worn tires will give you the shimmy. Yes the 38-39 psi cold at 70 degrees outside air temperature was a trial and error thing. Ride is a little harsher but it really reduced the vibration. Door jam actually suggests like 40 -41 if you drive over 100 mph constantly I like 37-39 . 34-36 gives more "sedan" type ride but it will shimmy at 85-95 unless tires are new.
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      02-29-2020, 08:40 AM   #6
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New front tires, purchased from Amazon, arrived and were installed yesterday. When I tried to place the original order from Costco on Feb 20th, Costco, Tire Rack, NTB, Tires Plus, etc., had the front tire size on backorder. So now, just over a week later, all the new Bridgestone POTENZA RE980AS tires have been installed: Front 265/35/20 Rear 305/30/20.

Once the vehicle was back on the ground and all pressures adjusted, the front and rear Bridgestone tires appear to not be as wide as the MPS4S tires, especially the rear. I may get flamed, but you may be able to go with 315/30/20 on the rear with this particular tire. After the temps go back up, I will wash my vehicle, provide pics and you are welcome to chime in with your opinions too.

I'm including pictures of the worn-out MPS4S front tires, which like the rears tires, were worn to the cords on the inside edges. I should've replaced all the MPS4S tires several thousand miles ago.
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      02-29-2020, 07:42 PM   #7
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New tires stopped my shaking steering wheel

When no other cars were in site, I made several runs to 110 mph and one run just shy of 150 mph. Great news! With the four new Bridgestone POTENZA RE980 AS tires running at 35 PSI, my vehicle no longer shimmys and no longer has a shaking steering wheel. I hope this lasts.
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      03-01-2020, 07:01 AM   #8
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Congrats on eliminating the steering wheel shimmy. Consider getting a four wheel alignment. The extreme wear in the inside edge of the tires suggests too much negative camber.
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      03-01-2020, 09:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1320racer View Post
The new front tires arrived and were installed yesterday. When I tried to place the original order from Costco on Feb 20th, Costco, Tire Rack, NTB, Tires Plus, etc., had the front tire size on backorder. So now, just over a week later, all the new Bridgestone POTENZA RE980AS tires have been installed: Front 265/35/20 Rear 305/30/20.

Once the vehicle was back on the ground and all pressures adjusted, the front and rear Bridgestone tires appear to not be as wide as the MPS4S tires, especially the rear. I may get flamed, but you may be able to go with 315/30/20 on the rear with this particular tire. After the temps go back up, I will wash my vehicle and provide a few pics and you are welcome to chime in with your opinions too.

I'm including pictures of the worn-out MPS4S front tires, which like the rears tires, were worn to the cords on the inside edges. I should've replaced all the MPS4S tires several thousand miles ago.
That's one on me..I thought it was neg camber on the rears and pos camber on the fronts so surprised your inside fronts are rubbed.
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      03-02-2020, 04:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1320racer View Post
I will report back my likes and dislikes on these Bridgestone tires. They should be better in the cold but the specs show they are a heavy tire when compared to Michelins. The tire's compound and weight will not help me at the drag strip.
My opinions may change later but here are my opinions after driving 650 miles.

Likes:
On-center feel and stability is very good
Do not find/follow groves in road
Do not transmit minor expansion joints into cabin
Quiet tires (so far)
Better than expected traction when temps are in the 40s and road is wet

Dislikes:
Immediate turn-in is lacking some feedback at high speeds
Tire weight has negatively impacted highway gas mileage by almost 2MPG
Difficult to use on a well prepped drag strip
- Seem to spin easily, but have not tried below 25 PSI yet
- Not sure if it's the weight or the tire's harder compound but they seem to cause axel hop during launches on a prepped drag strip. This has not been a problem on regular road surfaces.

Edit: added pic, no bulging and no problem fitting 305s out back
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      04-30-2020, 11:42 PM   #11
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Did you find out if this is frame damage? - thats the only time you would have shaking and heavily worn tires on the inside like this. Its not an alignment issue, and BMW certainly dont make M5's with shaky steering wheel at speed, not sure how you come up with this as an excuse - its a high performance car, it aint coming out of the factory with shaky steering at any speed. This is german BMW engineering, not a Chevy or Dodge (mine doesnt shake).

For safety reasons i wouldn't be driving above speed limits in it thats for sure its been in a bad accident.
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      05-01-2020, 12:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Did you find out if this is frame damage? - thats the only time you would have shaking and heavily worn tires on the inside like this. Its not an alignment issue, and BMW certainly dont make M5's with shaky steering wheel at speed, not sure how you come up with this as an excuse - its a high performance car, it aint coming out of the factory with shaky steering at any speed. This is german BMW engineering, not a Chevy or Dodge (mine doesnt shake).

For safety reasons i wouldn't be driving above speed limits in it thats for sure its been in a bad accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullish657 View Post
Did you find out if this is frame damage? - thats the only time you would have shaking and heavily worn tires on the inside like this. Its not an alignment issue, and BMW certainly dont make M5's with shaky steering wheel at speed, not sure how you come up with this as an excuse - its a high performance car, it aint coming out of the factory with shaky steering at any speed. This is german BMW engineering, not a Chevy or Dodge (mine doesnt shake).

For safety reasons i wouldn't be driving above speed limits in it thats for sure its been in a bad accident.

Don't mention that someone else's vehicle has been in an accident and likely has frame damage without the knowing what the hell you are talking about!

You need to read from the first post onward before responding. I mentioned that the tires had many miles on them.

I completely disagree with your post...

"...for sure it has been in a bad accident."
"...this is frame damage."
"...that's the 'only' time you would have shaking and worn out tires"

Really! These things can't attribute to or cause shaking and/or worn tires?
-very aggressive driving?
-bent wheel(s)?
-warped rotor(s)?
-sticky/dragging brake caliper(s)?
-re-alignments due to worn suspension part(s)?
-defective and/or worn tire(s)?

This vehicle has never been in an accident and was inspected at an independent shop who primarily works on BMWs and a BMW dealer before I purchased it. Except for normal ware items, the car was deemed in excellent condition.

The completely worn out tires caused the shake. I know this because the tires now have just shy of 7k miles, have worn perfectly, and the vehicle still goes down the road with absolutely NO shake.
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      05-01-2020, 07:32 PM   #13
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Yr old tires are worn to the threads on the inside corner - thats very wrong. And to come out and say its normal for a BMW M5 to shake at 80mph is totally ridiculous. Any car shaking either has an alignment issue or frame damage. Buying new tires does not correct that.
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      05-01-2020, 08:04 PM   #14
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Either youre clueless about cars or youre trying to bamboozle ppl with 'i did this and i did that, and they said it was fine'

You had everything checked by a dealer including the alignment and they said everything was fine, but "two months later" you find yr tires are heavily worn on the inside down to the threads... I doubt that wear happens overnight in two months buddy - mixing facts with fiction for sure.

Car has frame damage. Post a photo of your engine bay.

I know enough about cars to know that no car, whether it be an M5 or a 1980 Mini is designed with inherent shaking. No way would BMW put a car out like that...

One of the first things I learned about cars is if you have heavy wear on the inside or outside of tires its alignment - after that its frame damage.
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      05-01-2020, 08:29 PM   #15
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"B) after ~15k miles they seemed to tram (find groves in the road) more than the worn MPSS. But this may be due to the fact that the rears are wider than OEM"

"Find groves in the road" in other words car isnt driving straight.
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      05-02-2020, 02:23 AM   #16
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Your posts are scattered and truly meaningless. Your continued rants make you look even more idiotic.

PM me and we will settle this. You are certain behind a key board that my vehicle has frame damage. If it does, I pay you $5,000. If it does not, you pay me $5,000.
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      05-02-2020, 06:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1320racer View Post
Your posts are scattered and truly meaningless. Your continued rants make you look even more idiotic.

PM me and we will settle this. You are certain behind a key board that my vehicle has frame damage. If it does, I pay you $5,000. If it does not, you pay me $5,000.
Post a photo of yr engine bay, that will settle it
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      05-05-2020, 04:26 PM   #18
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Very interested to keep hearing your impression of these tires. I am thinking about getting a set once these are worn out. My car came with MP4S’s but I too am concerned about cold weather driving as she’s my year round daily.
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      05-09-2020, 09:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etnsandman View Post
Very interested to keep hearing your impression of these tires. I am thinking about getting a set once these are worn out. My car came with MP4S’s but I too am concerned about cold weather driving as she’s my year round daily.
After 7,300 miles, my impressions are similar to what they were when originally installed. Aside from wider temperature range driving, I expect the major differences will be realized from 20k to 30k miles.

Likes:
On-center feel and stability is very good
Do not follow groves in road
Do not transmit minor road expansion joints into cabin
Quieter than Michelin tires so far
Much better traction in wet and dry weather with temps in 30s
New--I prefer the Bridgestone’s sidewall appearance over MPS4S

Dislikes:
Tire reaction to aggressive turn-in is lacking at high speeds when compared to both sets of Michelin summer tires.
Difficult to use on a prepped racing surface (drag strip)
- Spin during launch, but have not tried below 25 psi yet
- Not sure if it's the psi, weight of tire or the tire's harder compound but they seem to cause axel hop (more than other tires) on a prepped drag strip. Axle hop only happens at the drag strip and has not happened on a normal road surface.
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Last edited by 1320racer; 05-10-2020 at 05:48 AM..
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      05-13-2020, 03:29 PM   #20
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Good deal. Sounds pretty good so far. I was also considering going to 285 in the rear and go to Michelin Pilot AS3+. Time will tell, keep the updates coming if you don’t mind.
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      06-29-2020, 09:30 PM   #21
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Looking at 275 front 305 pretty seriously. Still have a few months to decide. We'll see.
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      08-26-2020, 09:26 PM   #22
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How are these tires treating. Traction ever an issue?
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