Is carbon ceramic brakes worth it?

[Flying Ace]

Hey guys,

I'm actually looking to buy a M6 GC, but figured I'll get more responses here in the M5 forums.

I'm not sure if I'll regret buying a car with CCBs from a replacement cost perspective.

In my situation, I will be buying a used M6 with about 40k miles already on it. With no track sessions, will I really be okay not replacing brakes until well past 100k?

I'm just trying to see if the cost of owning CCBs is worth it. How many miles do you anticipate getting out of your CCBs without tracking your car?

Is there any cheaper ways around replacing CCBs, like just the pads itself at 50% without ever having to replace the rotors? (I am aware of the BMW online retailers where I can buy OEM parts at slight discounts)

Thanks

[Mpire]

i think u can out last CCB rotors forever if you don't track it.
CCB pads will last you 70k-100k miles.. just replace them. it should be under 1000 bucks.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Mpire

i think u can out last CCB rotors forever if you don't track it.
CCB pads will last you 70k-100k miles.. just replace them. it should be under 1000 bucks.

True? I'm in the same boat.

[ur20v]

Simpe answer is yes. but not to all... very personal and not always driven by fact.

I love them from an engineering and performance prospective, just wish they were cheaper and avaliable on more cars...

[SFT33]

I pulled the trigger on them on a new 16 M5. No regrets. Stopping power is immense and they look amazing. However, I'd be a bit suspect on a used car. Be sure to check the I drive - it shows how much life is left on the brakes.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by SFT33

Be sure to check the I drive - it shows how much life is left on the brakes.

Thats just an estimate
Only real way is to weigh the rotors and to look at the small circular wear indicators on the carbon rotors.

[RPiM5]

Carbon brakes are worth it to me. Rotors every 100,000 miles and pads every 50,000 miles. Pads aren't expensive, but rotors cost $4,000 per rotor, if you buy them from the dealership.

But even for a 2013 M5 that is over 4 years old now, there are hardly any that are over 100,000 miles mileage. No brake dust and awesome performance on both the street and track, they are worth it.

[Phatcat]

I think they are worth it from a appearance perspective, also if you don't track it, it last much longer. I have them.

But I'm not a believer in BMW's ceramic performance. Maybe they resist fade better but for just stopping performance, magazine figures showed they aren't really better than their steel counterpart. Motor Trend test driver Randy Pobst weren't that impressed with them. And the latest Sport Auto group test of M6 GC, new Pam Turbo, and Audi RS7 performance, they were impressed with Porsche's brakes, but not M6's brakes (though it seems like the Audi ceramics were the worst as SA specifically pointed it out that they faded after 4 laps).

And finally my instructor from BMW performance school didn't think the ceramics are better than the steel ones in terms of braking performance (in his opinion), and I asked twice, just be sure.

[Darkshear]

I've had an M5 with both and I'm really enjoying the absence of brake dust, the great cosmetic value add, and the initial bite of the CCBs. But the steels actually felt better when the brakes are cold and you're smashing the pedal. Which isn't unexpected. I don't think I'd have paid for the option, but I'm ecstatic the original owner did.

Both brake systems are FANTASTIC. Your teeth will end up on the floor either way.

[Flying Ace]

how do you judge when the pads needs changing? Still the same way with regular pads by measuring thickness?

Any reasons why people suggest changing them at 50% vs say 40% or 30%?

[Fundguy1]

Ok here's my quandary. I drive 50k a year. That works out to $500 a month to replace the rotors if they last 100k and that doesn't include the pads. With thst in mind, are the steel rotors and pads compatible with the rest of the ccb system, or maybe there's aftermarket alternatives, or would I need to swap the whole system?

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Ok here's my quandary. I drive 50k a year. That works out to $500 a month to replace the rotors if they last 100k and that doesn't include the pads. With thst in mind, are the steel rotors and pads compatible with the rest of the ccb system, or maybe there's aftermarket alternatives, or would I need to swap the whole system?

Not really any aftermarket alternatives for CCB's that are any less expensive.

As far as steel aftermarket alternatives, there are a few but they are also expensive. With the stock M5 6 pot brakes in front, they are pretty much the best bang for buck, but you can always upgrade to an 8 pot Stoptech or something for better braking performance. I might do that myself in the future. But, really I've found that switching to a low dust pad like the Cool Carbon's I've installed on my M5, but also have a higher temperature threshold than the stock pads, is one of the best options. Stock steel rotors aren't that expensive and aftermarket pads are really cheap. My Cool Carbons are excellent on the street and ok on the track. But for awesome braking performance on the track, I'd go with Carbotech's. But remember if you go with Carbotech's for the track, it's best to install a brand new set of steel rotors for amazing braking performance. New rotors will be able to take the most heat and be the most resistant against brake fade.

But seriously the low dust Cool Carbon's are worth every penny and make about 75% less dust than stock pads or about 25% more dust than Carbon Ceramic brakes.

Oh yeah and I'm also running EBC Pads on my rear brakes.

[1cleanm6]

Since your buying used I would said sure since you're not going to be paying that much more.

I have them on my m6gc and yes the bite is great, the front looks amazing and yes no brake fade.

The cons; rear calipers don't look that great, overkill on a m6gc unless you track.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by 1cleanm3

Since your buying used I would said sure since you're not going to be paying that much more.

I have them on my m6gc and yes the bite is great, the front looks amazing and yes no brake fade.

The cons; rear calipers don't look that great, overkill on a m6gc unless you track.

thanks. Agreed that CCB isn't priced in materially to used car pricing. Used pricing is more driven by the car's mileage at this point.


But my primary question is, will the brakes last well past 100k, my estimated timeframe of ownership.

[Fundguy1]

I meant if i get ccb, would i need to swap the calipers to convert to steel or is there any aftermarket steel rotors that i could replace the carbon rotors with? I do plan eventually to have steel brakes with ceramic pads. But i wanted to know if i shpuld get the ccb and run them till they're dead or steel to start because its a different caliper and I'd be stuck buying new calipers or carbon rotors. Thx

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I meant if i get ccb, would i need to swap the calipers to convert to steel or is there any aftermarket steel rotors that i could replace the carbon rotors with? I do plan eventually to have steel brakes with ceramic pads. But i wanted to know if i shpuld get the ccb and run them till they're dead or steel to start because its a different caliper and I'd be stuck buying new calipers or carbon rotors. Thx

my understanding is that the entire system is different, calipers, pads, rotors, and even master cylinder.

In your situation, whether you should swap immediately to steel depends on how you want to represent your car when you sell it.

If you swap immediately when you have your car, then install them or include your almost-new CCBs when you sell the car, the next buyer will feel better that you didn't deliver him a near-dead white elephant that he'll have to immediately dump $10k into to get up and running.

If you don't care about the next buyer and how he'll value it, or you have indefinitely plans to keep the car well past its most valuable stage (10+ years), then you should consider using the CCBs until its dead, swap it for steel. Or swap immediately and sell the near new CCBs.

[soooma]

Had 3 M5's in the last 3 years
The current one has CCB's and despite the fact I would have never paid 9200$ for them as an option when new but as a used car with 20K Miles on it, oh my Gosh! Now I am actually sold and I may think about paying that much in the future! Bite is certainly superior! They squeal sometimes but not more than steel and the Gold color is way better than Blue calipers too!!

Second best option on the car after MPExhauste which changed the character of the car to me completely!! Driving an F10 hat sounds better ham Maserati no doubt and almost like a Ferrari !!!

[Fundguy1]

My friend said that about his sisters with the akropobic exhaust.

[fkim119]

Entire system is different. Even the programing.

People change there pads at 40-50% just to be safe. Much cheaper to change pads then a cracked CCB rotor.

Contrary to popular belief, CCB do fade. IT just takes longer for them to reach temperature to get them cooking. I was on the track with a m4 with CCB and they were fading by the 8-9 lap albeit it was a short course where braking late is preferred.

I love the CCB's. I was looking for a M5 with them but came up dry. If you can find them and can check the rotors for weight and cracks... I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car with them.

[shelflows]

if you want the best performance and longevity go with CCB. But, also know that they will create much more brake noise than standard BMW brakes

[Darkshear]

Originally Posted by shelflows

if you want the best performance and longevity go with CCB. But, also know that they will create much more brake dust than standard BMW brakes

Wait...what?

[shelflows]

scratch that! lol! good catch darkshear. I wasn't paying attention to my typing... *they produce much more brake noise than standard BMW brakes*

To me, the brake squeaking drives me insane!!