F1 2022: Brazilian GP - São Paulo (Nov 13)

[Artemis]

Will Buxton (British Formula One digital presenter and reporter who works for Liberty Media):

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Onesie

You guys crack me up… “then saying he’ll never be sorry for doing that” here, let me post a video where he says the exact opposite. OMG…

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...g-8567923.html

Haven't been watching F1 long?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

While all the Max haters are busy exaggerating the Brazilian GP and forgetting about their LH44 doing the same exact thing.

How about Sebastian Vettel not letting Webber pass then saying he'll never be sorry for doing that?

They should get heat for that but we could post videos where LH let Bottas buy when he didn’t have everything locked up.

This is now, this incident. Did LH’s or Vettel’s parents go public with personal stuff to?

[Artemis]

Red Bull Racing press release of today.

"A Comment Following The Brazil GP
The Team has released the following comment.
Written by Oracle Red Bull Racing
Published on 17.11.2022 · 12:00 UTC+1
https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...zil-grand-prix
As a team we made some mistakes in Brazil. We had not envisaged the situation that unfolded on the last lap and we had not agreed a strategy for such a scenario before the race. Regretfully, Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position without all the necessary information being relayed. This put Max, who has always been an open and fair team player, in a compromising situation with little time to react which was not our intention. Following the race Max spoke openly and honestly, allowing for both drivers to resolve any outstanding issues or concerns. The Team accept Max's reasoning, the conversation was a personal matter which will remain private between the team and no further comment will be made.
The events that followed from a social media point of view are completely unacceptable. The abusive online behaviour towards Max, Checo, the Team and their respective families is shocking and saddening and unfortunately is something that we as a sport are having to address with depressing regularity. There is no place for it in racing or society as a whole and we need to do and be better. At the end of the day this is a sport, we are here to race. Death threats, hate mail, vitriol towards extended family members is deplorable. We value inclusion and want a safe space for everyone to work in and enjoy our sport. The abuse needs to stop."

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Will Buxton (British Formula One digital presenter and reporter who works for Liberty Media):

Maybe they shouldn’t throw stones (glass houses go both ways).

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Red Bull Racing press release of today.

"A Comment Following The Brazil GP
The Team has released the following comment.
Written by Oracle Red Bull Racing
Published on 17.11.2022 · 12:00 UTC+1
https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...zil-grand-prix
As a team we made some mistakes in Brazil. We had not envisaged the situation that unfolded on the last lap and we had not agreed a strategy for such a scenario before the race. Regretfully, Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position without all the necessary information being relayed. This put Max, who has always been an open and fair team player, in a compromising situation with little time to react which was not our intention. Following the race Max spoke openly and honestly, allowing for both drivers to resolve any outstanding issues or concerns. The Team accept Max's reasoning, the conversation was a personal matter which will remain private between the team and no further comment will be made.
The events that followed from a social media point of view are completely unacceptable. The abusive online behaviour towards Max, Checo, the Team and their respective families is shocking and saddening and unfortunately is something that we as a sport are having to address with depressing regularity. There is no place for it in racing or society as a whole and we need to do and be better. At the end of the day this is a sport, we are here to race. Death threats, hate mail, vitriol towards extended family members is deplorable. We value inclusion and want a safe space for everyone to work in and enjoy our sport. The abuse needs to stop."

Almost all of them get this, you don’t think they helped create hatred towards LH/Toto/MB? This is what I’ve talked to you about here but you constantly ignore it. It’s a societal thing that needs to change. We all need to be better.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

They should get heat for that but we could post videos where LH let Bottas buy when he didn’t have everything locked up.

This is now, this incident. Did LH’s or Vettel’s parents go public with personal stuff to?

Unrelated.

I don't approve but I also don't approve of the stuff being written to the Verstappen family either.

Max is Max. Whether his parent made a mistake by defending their child is a separate issue.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

Unrelated.

I don't approve but I also don't approve of the stuff being written to the Verstappen family either.

Max is Max. Whether his parent made a mistake by defending their child is a separate issue.

No it all sucks but it is what it is. It’s all related in the sense that it needs to stop across the board. Maybe stop calling people c*nts to start? I’m no saint but I’ve definitely tried to dial it back and get along with those I don’t like here. It starts small but hopefully helps with the overall behavior. Obviously I’m skeptical.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

Almost all of them get this, you don’t think they helped create hatred towards LH/Toto/MB? This is what I’ve talked to you about here but you constantly ignore it. It’s a societal thing that needs to change. We all need to be better.

I love you minn but "We all need to be better" is a very empty statement. What solution is there for the short-comings of being human? Compelling speech? Silencing opinions that hurt sensitive anuses? The American founding fathers literally established a Republic based on that fact that humans are pieces of crap and will exploit and abuse power with enough time as history has proven over and over again.

I think we can all agree that things get out of hand and this behavior is unbecoming but that's life. This is what annoys so many about cheap virtue signaling from some of the drivers. Almost everyone knows what good etiquette is and yet we still break it often. In reality, we can all acknowledge garbage behavior but the optimal solution is to develop thicker skin. Yes, there are some extreme behaviors that don't fall into the conversation but calling someone or their family a doodie head on social media is trashy just like saying someone cheated on their wife is trashy but these aren't things that anyone can control without damaging the big picture.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Onesie

Vettel apologised to him and Red Bull on a number of occasions shortly after the race but makes no concessions for the type of driver he is.
Vettel said. "I apologised to the team straight after for putting myself above the team, which I didn't mean to do. I don't apologise for winning. That is why people employed me and why I'm here."

We’ll just agree to disagree and move on as we do with everything else around here.

Give it enough time and the Max / Checo situation will play out the same way.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

I love you minn but "We all need to be better" is a very empty statement. What solution is there for the short-comings of being human? Compelling speech? Silencing opinions that hurt sensitive anuses? The American founding fathers literally established a Republic based on that fact that humans are pieces of crap and will exploit and abuse power with enough time as history has proven over and over again.

I think we can all agree that things get out of hand and this behavior is unbecoming but that's life. This is what annoys so many about cheap virtue signaling from some of the drivers. Almost everyone knows what good etiquette is and yet we still break it often. In reality, we can all acknowledge garbage behavior but the optimal solution is to develop thicker skin. Yes, there are some extreme behaviors that don't fall into the conversation but calling someone or their family a doodie head on social media is trashy just like saying someone cheated on their wife is trashy but these aren't things that anyone can control without damaging the big picture.

I guess my response is then don’t cry for Red Bull or the Verstappen family when it happens. I agree to a point, I don’t think it is virtue signaling to tell people to be better. My version of that is to not send people death threats over a sport. Not a real high bar, maybe if we can back off from there and get back to the usual bickering.

My point with this situation is Max and his family started some public sh@!. And they and you shouldn’t be surprised with the reaction they are getting, especially with what you wrote here. I don’t agree with it at all, everyone (including me at times) needs to stop being so emotional.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

Give it enough time and the Max / Checo situation will play out the same way.

I dunno man, Max’s mom crossed the biggest unwritten rule in sports. Most of these guys are idiots like Checo when it comes to their married life but they know not to call each other out on it.

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by minn19

I dunno man, Max's mom crossed the biggest unwritten rule in sports. Most of these guys are idiots like Checo when it comes to their married life but they know not to call each other out on it.

That 'unwritten rule' thing, that's from a male's point of view haha

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

That 'unwritten rule' thing, that's from a male's point of view haha

Vert very true, but it’s real. They can do a bunch of other things to each other but this is usually off limits since the majority of them do it in sports etc.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

I dunno man, Max’s mom crossed the biggest unwritten rule in sports. Most of these guys are idiots like Checo when it comes to their married life but they know not to call each other out on it.

I'd do so much worse in defense of my children, regardless of how stupid it is.

On the one hand, it got humans to where we are now - on the other hand, it also shows that we're not so far separated from the animal kingdom as we think.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

I guess my response is then don’t cry for Red Bull or the Verstappen family when it happens. I agree to a point, I don’t think it is virtue signaling to tell people to be better. My version of that is to not send people death threats over a sport. Not a real high bar, maybe if we can back off from there and get back to the usual bickering.

My point with this situation is Max and his family started some public sh@!. And they and you shouldn’t be surprised with the reaction they are getting, especially with what you wrote here. I don’t agree with it at all, everyone (including me at times) needs to stop being so emotional.

I'm just glad you're actually posting and not lurking.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

I'd do so much worse in defense of my children, regardless of how stupid it is.

On the one hand, it got humans to where we are now - on the other hand, it also shows that we're not so far separated from the animal kingdom as we think.

Trust me, I hear yah.

Originally Posted by NYG

I'm just glad you're actually posting and not lurking.

[MontyB1]

I think as minn19 said and I've said in the past the vitriol that Red Bull has stirred up is coming back to bite them. I've said before this season they are losing their cool factor on and off the track and what Max did in Brazil has only made that worse.

Many many new supports have joined the sport because of Max and that's great but it's sooo much more than just rivalry. The sport is super complex on and off the track and many are only just learning that, these aren't people that are going in for a tackle or a header that might hurt a bit tomorrow, a daft move and someone is potentially dead. The fact thankfully that many don't get seriously hurt forget that, but its ever present.

As for the online abuse, I don't agree with everyone on here but there is NO PLACE for any of the abuse, attacks and threats online. For me, if you can't say something that you wouldn't over a pint in a pub face to face then you shouldn't say it at all IMO.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

As for the online abuse, I don't agree with everyone on here but there is NO PLACE for any of the abuse, attacks and threats online. For me, if you can't say something that you wouldn't over a pint in a pub face to face then you shouldn't say it at all IMO.

I don't think anyone is arguing this.

I'm specifically arguing that there's nothing you can do about it except get thicker skin. Any forced measures would be detrimental to everyone as a whole.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by NYG

I'm specifically arguing that there's nothing you can do about it except get thicker skin. Any forced measures would be detrimental to everyone as a whole.

I don't agree, I think some people feel they can say what they like to whomever they like threatening people and even worse. That should NOT be stood for in and form of live, face to face or online. In the UK there is new legislation going through to help with that.

This forum moderates people being racist, aggressive or threatening and long may it be the case, people shouldn't need to have a thicker skin due to other people's abhorrent behaviour which is exactly what Max is saying. Abuse shouldn't be stud for in any for of life, banter, well that's different but it is a fine line for some and I get that element some people need to be less woke.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

I don't agree, I think some people feel they can say what they like to whomever they like threatening people and even worse. That should NOT be stood for in and form of live, face to face or online. In the UK there is new legislation going through to help with that.

This forum moderates people being racist, aggressive or threatening and long may it be the case, people shouldn't need to have a thicker skin due to other people's abhorrent behaviour which is exactly what Max is saying. Abuse shouldn't be stud for in any for of life, banter, well that's different but it is a fine line for some and I get that element some people need to be less woke.

The forum is a private entity and they choose to moderate this behavior because most people would stop posting here if they were being roasted and verbally abused non-stop. Doesn't matter how thick your skin is. They can also choose to not do anything about that. It's in their hands and that's where it stops. The problem is when government gets involved - this has never and will never work out well.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by minn19

This is what I’ve talked to you about here but you constantly ignore it.

Come on minn19, based on the civil one-on-one conversations we had about this aspect in the past, as well as based on actions that are taken, you are supposed to know that your statement is inaccurate. Don't do that.