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      11-17-2022, 09:52 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Give it enough time and the Max / Checo situation will play out the same way.
I dunno man, Max’s mom crossed the biggest unwritten rule in sports. Most of these guys are idiots like Checo when it comes to their married life but they know not to call each other out on it.
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      11-17-2022, 09:54 AM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Give it enough time and the Max / Checo situation will play out the same way.
I dunno man, Max's mom crossed the biggest unwritten rule in sports. Most of these guys are idiots like Checo when it comes to their married life but they know not to call each other out on it.
That 'unwritten rule' thing, that's from a male's point of view haha
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      11-17-2022, 09:57 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by Mr Pete View Post
That 'unwritten rule' thing, that's from a male's point of view haha
Vert very true, but it’s real. They can do a bunch of other things to each other but this is usually off limits since the majority of them do it in sports etc.
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      11-17-2022, 10:03 AM   #488
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I dunno man, Max’s mom crossed the biggest unwritten rule in sports. Most of these guys are idiots like Checo when it comes to their married life but they know not to call each other out on it.
I'd do so much worse in defense of my children, regardless of how stupid it is.

On the one hand, it got humans to where we are now - on the other hand, it also shows that we're not so far separated from the animal kingdom as we think.
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      11-17-2022, 10:04 AM   #489
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I guess my response is then don’t cry for Red Bull or the Verstappen family when it happens. I agree to a point, I don’t think it is virtue signaling to tell people to be better. My version of that is to not send people death threats over a sport. Not a real high bar, maybe if we can back off from there and get back to the usual bickering.

My point with this situation is Max and his family started some public sh@!. And they and you shouldn’t be surprised with the reaction they are getting, especially with what you wrote here. I don’t agree with it at all, everyone (including me at times) needs to stop being so emotional.
I'm just glad you're actually posting and not lurking.
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      11-17-2022, 10:09 AM   #490
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I'd do so much worse in defense of my children, regardless of how stupid it is.

On the one hand, it got humans to where we are now - on the other hand, it also shows that we're not so far separated from the animal kingdom as we think.
Trust me, I hear yah.

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I'm just glad you're actually posting and not lurking.
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      11-17-2022, 10:44 AM   #491
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I think as minn19 said and I've said in the past the vitriol that Red Bull has stirred up is coming back to bite them. I've said before this season they are losing their cool factor on and off the track and what Max did in Brazil has only made that worse.

Many many new supports have joined the sport because of Max and that's great but it's sooo much more than just rivalry. The sport is super complex on and off the track and many are only just learning that, these aren't people that are going in for a tackle or a header that might hurt a bit tomorrow, a daft move and someone is potentially dead. The fact thankfully that many don't get seriously hurt forget that, but its ever present.

As for the online abuse, I don't agree with everyone on here but there is NO PLACE for any of the abuse, attacks and threats online. For me, if you can't say something that you wouldn't over a pint in a pub face to face then you shouldn't say it at all IMO.
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      11-17-2022, 10:48 AM   #492
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As for the online abuse, I don't agree with everyone on here but there is NO PLACE for any of the abuse, attacks and threats online. For me, if you can't say something that you wouldn't over a pint in a pub face to face then you shouldn't say it at all IMO.
I don't think anyone is arguing this.

I'm specifically arguing that there's nothing you can do about it except get thicker skin. Any forced measures would be detrimental to everyone as a whole.
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      11-17-2022, 11:16 AM   #493
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I'm specifically arguing that there's nothing you can do about it except get thicker skin. Any forced measures would be detrimental to everyone as a whole.
I don't agree, I think some people feel they can say what they like to whomever they like threatening people and even worse. That should NOT be stood for in and form of live, face to face or online. In the UK there is new legislation going through to help with that.

This forum moderates people being racist, aggressive or threatening and long may it be the case, people shouldn't need to have a thicker skin due to other people's abhorrent behaviour which is exactly what Max is saying. Abuse shouldn't be stud for in any for of life, banter, well that's different but it is a fine line for some and I get that element some people need to be less woke.
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      11-17-2022, 11:45 AM   #494
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Originally Posted by MontyB1 View Post
I don't agree, I think some people feel they can say what they like to whomever they like threatening people and even worse. That should NOT be stood for in and form of live, face to face or online. In the UK there is new legislation going through to help with that.

This forum moderates people being racist, aggressive or threatening and long may it be the case, people shouldn't need to have a thicker skin due to other people's abhorrent behaviour which is exactly what Max is saying. Abuse shouldn't be stud for in any for of life, banter, well that's different but it is a fine line for some and I get that element some people need to be less woke.
The forum is a private entity and they choose to moderate this behavior because most people would stop posting here if they were being roasted and verbally abused non-stop. Doesn't matter how thick your skin is. They can also choose to not do anything about that. It's in their hands and that's where it stops. The problem is when government gets involved - this has never and will never work out well.
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      11-17-2022, 12:28 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
This is what I’ve talked to you about here but you constantly ignore it.
Come on minn19, based on the civil one-on-one conversations we had about this aspect in the past, as well as based on actions that are taken, you are supposed to know that your statement is inaccurate. Don't do that.
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      11-17-2022, 12:37 PM   #496
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Quote:
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Will Buxton (British Formula One digital presenter and reporter who works for Liberty Media):

Anyone else see the irony about talking to Jos about family abuse?
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      11-17-2022, 01:51 PM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Come on minn19, based on the civil one-on-one conversations we had about this aspect in the past, as well as based on actions that are taken, you are supposed to know that your statement is inaccurate. Don't do that.
Artemis, you seem like a very nice person. But it’s very clear to many of us here that you have chosen sides. As evidenced by what happened a few weeks ago, I’ve only seen you delete and officially warn those from the side you disagree with while never doing it to those you do agree with. All I’m asking for (and others) have ever asked for is if you are going to be a moderator in this section then do it evenly please. Don’t be like a FIA steward we all complain about. ;-)

Most of the non Max fans have been ran out of here for this reason and a few others. There are only a few of us stubborn ones that still hang on from time to time.
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      11-17-2022, 03:02 PM   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Come on minn19, based on the civil one-on-one conversations we had about this aspect in the past, as well as based on actions that are taken, you are supposed to know that your statement is inaccurate. Don't do that.
This from a fellow countryman, and max lover... Can you address this please?

EDIT by Bimmerpost: addressed.
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      11-17-2022, 03:39 PM   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Artemis, you seem like a very nice person. But it’s very clear to many of us here that you have chosen sides. As evidenced by what happened a few weeks ago, I’ve only seen you delete and officially warn those from the side you disagree with while never doing it to those you do agree with. All I’m asking for (and others) have ever asked for is if you are going to be a moderator in this section then do it evenly please. Don’t be like a FIA steward we all complain about. ;-)

Most of the non Max fans have been ran out of here for this reason and a few others. There are only a few of us stubborn ones that still hang on from time to time.
Negative !

1- It's useless to say that I'm 100% MAX fan till I die .

2- I've been warned via PM's by the Belgian moderator Artemis .

3- Artemis is doing a great job at this forum .
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      11-17-2022, 05:39 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Artemis, you seem like a very nice person. But it’s very clear to many of us here that you have chosen sides. As evidenced by what happened a few weeks ago, I’ve only seen you delete and officially warn those from the side you disagree with while never doing it to those you do agree with. All I’m asking for (and others) have ever asked for is if you are going to be a moderator in this section then do it evenly please. Don’t be like a FIA steward we all complain about. ;-)

Most of the non Max fans have been ran out of here for this reason and a few others. There are only a few of us stubborn ones that still hang on from time to time.
Agree with the sentiment the place is very once sided. He is at least trying to do something and we all evolve so I live in hope. Banter is good, ganging up one side against another, as a mod on another form that should NOT be allowed. But this isn’t my forum so I have to live by their rules, this is a great car forum, it could be so much better with a well regulated Motorsport forum.
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      11-17-2022, 06:06 PM   #501
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Most of the non Max fans have been ran out of here for this reason and a few others. There are only a few of us stubborn ones that still hang on from time to time.
Or they use that as an excuse.
I've only seen Artemis intervene on certain parameters/keywords that are clearly against the rules.
Besides he's not the only mod on this forum. I'm sure the modteam has some kind of internal consultation with eachother from time to time.

The time I've seen him intervene are in situations that on most fora would have been killed off way sooner with way more bans etc. This is one of the least moderated forums I frequent.
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      11-17-2022, 09:08 PM   #502
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Or they use that as an excuse.
I've only seen Artemis intervene on certain parameters/keywords that are clearly against the rules.
Besides he's not the only mod on this forum. I'm sure the modteam has some kind of internal consultation with eachother from time to time.

The time I've seen him intervene are in situations that on most fora would have been killed off way sooner with way more bans etc. This is one of the least moderated forums I frequent.
I actually agree with some of what you have said here and FWIW, I don’t completely blame him. What is hard though is when he enters the side of an argument and then doesn’t like what the other side says and shuts down discussion by deleting posts and publicly warning people in here. It’s pretty clear both sides get out of line quite often but the enforcement is definitely one sided. Maybe more has been done behind the scenes, many have complained about specific things for years and it still goes on and on.

Maybe a few have used it as an excuse, but the majority have left because it is relentless in here with the Max fanboys. People get tired of constantly getting jumped/ganged up on and move on.
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      11-17-2022, 09:21 PM   #503
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i am not anyone's fan. call it as i see it. you don't be get to the top by letting people through that's all i'll say. also, like father like son. Perez and Max have done everything asked of them. Perez being the support crew, Max to win stuff for RBR, all the drama has been happening behind the scenes until dirty laundry aired by Max and mum. No need for that the poor dog had everything for you.

wonder if the next race will be interesting.

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      11-17-2022, 10:53 PM   #504
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I think the narrative that Artemis moderates "one-sidedly" is silly.

I've been warned by him plenty and he intervenes when a certain fanbase immediately starts involving race - as they typically do.

He's a Max fan and when he defends him, he responds in a super detailed and non-aggressive way with sources. It's just whenever LH44 is involved it immediately turns into some racism/woke discussion and I'm 100% confident that the more outspoken Max fans here, including me, aren't racist AT ALL.

I like a bunch of the guys on here who aren't Max fans but it always has to escalate to something ridiculous. It's the Max era, he's going to be on the highlight reel on anything F1 related. It's okay for someone to debate/comment on all this stuff without feeling like they aren't welcome.
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      11-18-2022, 12:02 AM   #505
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      11-18-2022, 03:25 AM   #506
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Couple of things come to mind. The petulant, spoiled kid's actions have damaged the Verstappen franchise...and RBR's record of not being able to control its drivers remains intact.
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