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      08-21-2017, 05:52 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
This car is definitely better than the F10. There can be no doubt about that. It's a lot faster.

But the F10 represented a huge step ahead of the competition in 2011, and this car does not.

No DCT (AMG and Porsche have a DCT)
No Active anti roll bars (Porsche has)
No rear wheel steering (Porsche and M550 have that)
Less HP than competitors (E63S and Panamera Turbo S both ahead here)
Incremental styling which looks aged out of the box (Porsche and AMG have better styling)
Small nav screen
Looks barely different from the M550



my statement was regarding yours about people blindingly buying this new car.

For what we are paying for this caliber car it needed to be justified. I'm having a hard time justifiying AWD, a cool valve cover and new interior, for 1300+ a month. All while feeling like i'm looking at a slightly updated f10 bodystlye.
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      08-21-2017, 06:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Somewhat disappointing. Styling looks incremental. Plus they are launching the car with a HP disadvantage versus Mercedes. I am curious if the real 0-60 time is actually faster or not.

If you are blindly brand loyal then this is your car. Others will probably cross-shop. The F10 when it was launched in 2011 was so good that I would not have considered the competition.
Spot on, and that was my concern out of the gate. This is a new launch model, and in my opinion is another LCI. When I get into the 4 door mode again E63 gets the nod thus far. I've never owned a merc, but may consider after this release.
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      08-21-2017, 06:16 PM   #25
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I won't be buying the F90
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      08-21-2017, 06:19 PM   #26
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BMW at least try to wow us.

https://www.google.com/search?q=merc...bXpKXMDLwrNlM:
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      08-21-2017, 06:23 PM   #27
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Damn, that's nice!
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      08-21-2017, 06:24 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer6 View Post
Spot on, and that was my concern out of the gate. This is a new launch model, and in my opinion is another LCI. When I get into the 4 door mode again E63 gets the nod thus far. I've never owned a merc, but may consider after this release.
I owned my first Mercedes for the past 2.5 years and I would say they are very similar to BMWs these days. Mercedes have become sportier and BMW have become softer, to the point that they have fully converged. There isn't a separation from driving experience. Mercedes is better in build quality and interior finishes, BMW is better in technology User Interface. Tech features are very similar though.

If I was choosing a sedan, I would take the E63S over the new M5. But without having test driven the Mercedes, I think I would take the Panamera Turbo over both. There are good deals on 2017 Panny Turbos so the price diff is pretty small.
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      08-21-2017, 06:45 PM   #29
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I wonder if M5 going xDrive is scaring Audi just a bit...
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      08-21-2017, 06:49 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I owned my first Mercedes for the past 2.5 years and I would say they are very similar to BMWs these days. Mercedes have become sportier and BMW have become softer, to the point that they have fully converged. There isn't a separation from driving experience. Mercedes is better in build quality and interior finishes, BMW is better in technology User Interface. Tech features are very similar though.

If I was choosing a sedan, I would take the E63S over the new M5. But without having test driven the Mercedes, I think I would take the Panamera Turbo over both. There are good deals on 2017 Panny Turbos so the price diff is pretty small.
Fair points, and I would place the BMW in 3rd place which is a shame for a launch model. I'm not really big on a lot of electronics, and key for me is driver feel, looks, engine sound/response. I hate all the settings on the M's as I don't want to play a video game drive and go. If the M had updated looks it could be in the running. All three cars you names are launch models and had significant updates vs the LCI we got from BMW. Honestly I can careless how it drives it looks like the car I sold with a bolt on NAV screen.
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      08-21-2017, 06:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I owned my first Mercedes for the past 2.5 years and I would say they are very similar to BMWs these days. Mercedes have become sportier and BMW have become softer, to the point that they have fully converged. There isn't a separation from driving experience. Mercedes is better in build quality and interior finishes, BMW is better in technology User Interface. Tech features are very similar though.

If I was choosing a sedan, I would take the E63S over the new M5. But without having test driven the Mercedes, I think I would take the Panamera Turbo over both. There are good deals on 2017 Panny Turbos so the price diff is pretty small.
Not sure on panni deals. The build I like is close to 190k that's steep, and to get killed the next year. I'm undecided, but I have a friend a MB ex CEO so he can do something for me.
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      08-21-2017, 07:13 PM   #32
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MB fanboy LOL
I keep it real:

8 M's makes me fanMAN


But this one might not make the list.
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      08-21-2017, 07:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I owned my first Mercedes for the past 2.5 years and I would say they are very similar to BMWs these days. Mercedes have become sportier and BMW have become softer, to the point that they have fully converged. There isn't a separation from driving experience. Mercedes is better in build quality and interior finishes, BMW is better in technology User Interface. Tech features are very similar though.

If I was choosing a sedan, I would take the E63S over the new M5. But without having test driven the Mercedes, I think I would take the Panamera Turbo over both. There are good deals on 2017 Panny Turbos so the price diff is pretty small.
The Panny is starting to suffer the same plight as the previous gen... over production and lackluster sales. The cars are just sitting at the stores as the price point (even with all the options they gather) are just more than one is willing to fork out. Afterall, to the layman, I think the looks of the two generations still mesh a bit. There are still 64 new 2016 Panameras sitting on the lots (a blend of Turbos, GTS's, 4's, S's, etc) and the 17's are already almost a model year old.

All this being said, watch for large PCNA trunk money and subvented leasing rates like they did a few years back to move the last gen (which didnt full execute).
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      08-21-2017, 07:51 PM   #34
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      08-21-2017, 10:23 PM   #35
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The front seats are awesome, but everything else is a bit boring IMO.
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      08-21-2017, 10:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
I keep it real:

8 M's makes me fanMAN


But this one might not make the list.
Sure you are
Just kidding bro
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      08-21-2017, 11:47 PM   #37
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I love everything about this new M5. I owned the F10 M5 and now will move on to the F90 M5. As they say on Game of Thrones: We have a new KING!
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      08-22-2017, 02:28 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer6 View Post
Spot on, and that was my concern out of the gate. This is a new launch model, and in my opinion is another LCI. When I get into the 4 door mode again E63 gets the nod thus far. I've never owned a merc, but may consider after this release.
Couldn't agree more. The F10 was far enough ahead to remove the catch up attempts from the likes of Mercedes. Visually to me a, big M car fan (I have had 4 previous M cars), the old mans car, the Merc has overtaken the M visually now. we don't know yet how good the chassis of the new M is, superb I suspect, probably better than the Merc.

I have only every bought one new car (E90 M3) and probably won't do that again, my F10 M5 was 18m old with 7k miles at a LOT less than new. IF I was spending £90k on a saloon car it needs to look better, however good the chassis is
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      08-22-2017, 02:50 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
MB fanboy LOL
I keep it real:

8 M's makes me fanMAN


But this one might not make the list.
I give it till april-may 18 when one of your contacts offers you a deal you cant pass on
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      08-22-2017, 04:16 PM   #40
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Given how Panny can be species it's a different league from price point perspective and hence not a competition to M5 or E63S.

Don't like the looks of E63S one bit - looks like a bastard child of S class and C class. MB exterior designers have gotten incredibly lazy with this S M L approach.

F90 looks really nice from the exterior. I think there is enough going on here from an exterior perspective that I don't confuse it with a LCI. Not a fan of how the rear taillights look but that's a small grimace to have. Interior - don't like the seats. They are too racerboy. Don't like the shift knob - what the hell are all those buttons??? And they made them shiny plastic? That's a fingerprint magnate. Would drive me nuts owning that. Hopefully it's an option to wood, aluminum, CF etc in the center console. Besides that the interior looks really crisp. I think leasing would need to be the way to go on this car and not until LCI comes out. I'm going to be replacing my F10 M5 with something else next year.

MB doesn't get car tech. I would argue off all the major European luxury manufacturers (Audi, BMW, Porsche, Volvo), MB has the worst tech in business. Ok well maybe better than Jags and RR! Tech is a big piece of these cars now - I won't buy a MB DD simply for that reason (AMG GTS is not a daily drive so it's ok).
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      08-22-2017, 04:30 PM   #41
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Without seeing it in the flesh (which is where BMW often excels in the subtleties of design) I'm surprised how steady the new car looks. Was expecting something at least a little more dramatic. But then the design philosophy throughout the model lines (excepting the i cars) seems to be the same iterative approach. I don't think the RS6 or E63 sedans look better than the M5, their wagons on the other hand are handsome beasts.
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      08-23-2017, 01:15 AM   #42
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For me it will be the new M5 if it can be delivered in early 2018. I personally dislike Mercedes cars, Audi has a very bad customer service in Germany and the Porsche Panamera has only 4 seats. So there is actually no alternative.

I hope that the 4WD will add more traction which was the major problem of the F10. Also the Michelin P4s have less traction than the PSS. And I hope that the automatic transmission is more comfortable than the DCT in daily driving.
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      08-23-2017, 03:25 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jensputzier
For me it will be the new M5 if it can be delivered in early 2018. I personally dislike Mercedes cars, Audi has a very bad customer service in Germany and the Porsche Panamera has only 4 seats. So there is actually no alternative.

I hope that the 4WD will add more traction which was the major problem of the F10. Also the Michelin P4s have less traction than the PSS. And I hope that the automatic transmission is more comfortable than the DCT in daily driving.
Not sure I would agree on the tires. The 4S seems to be superior to the SS in every benchmark thrown at it. Are you confusing it with the older all seasons?
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      08-26-2017, 02:21 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Somewhat disappointing. Styling looks incremental. Plus they are launching the car with a HP disadvantage versus Mercedes. I am curious if the real 0-60 time is actually faster or not.

If you are blindly brand loyal then this is your car. Others will probably cross-shop. The F10 when it was launched in 2011 was so good that I would not have considered the competition.
The horsepower difference is minimal and at 600hp whos counting a few more or less.
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