M5 / M6 Oil Pump Recall FAQ and Affected VIN List

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I'm glad they are doing a recall after only one failure. It is a sign they take their quality seriously. I honestly think people's anger is misplaced here. The company is doing the right thing. In the past BMW has been too late to issue recalls.

I hope they do the same with the springs even though I haven't experienced that issue yet.

+1 I am the one who got stranded and my planned trip ruined but don't see me bitching here. I am really bummed but am expecting BMW to make it right. This is a bad situation but stuff happens and can't get all emotional over it. This is my 5th M5 and they are not known for reliability (but yes, this was not expected and not desired by anyone) that's why my kids drive civics and corolla's....

[cnicholson]

BMW needs to make a gesture to make this right. Shutting down ~100% of your early adopter for at least three weeks after only a couple of weeks of ownership is a HUGE enthusiasm deflator for you biggest fans.

Instead of offering a free payment (~$1500 or whatever), I think they should offer a free 100K warranty on the engine and $2000 discount on the comprehensive extended warranty package.

A few bucks in your pocket is nice, but for me it won't address the (perhaps irrational) nagging sense that the car may have further related problems down the road (which is, in my view, what happened with the early E60s that later had VANOS issues). My proposal would send the message that BMW is stepping up to the plate and underscoring their commitment to quality, and also giving special acknowledgment to those who plunked down $100K (mostly without a test drive) on this new model based solely on total confidence in the BMW and //M brands.

There is also a selfish reason for BMW to do this: if all these cars are out of commission for 3-4 weeks, that puts them all near or in the "presumptive lemon" category for many states, giving owners a right to "put" the cars back to BMW. That's a lot more expensive than a free warranty and a smile....

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by jgarvish

I'm disturbed that they have not been truthful about the reason that they found out about this problem as a poster mentioned earlier in this thread.

+1 But maybe the reason was to protect BarryB's privacy. In any event I fully expect BMW to come through on this and the adjustable backrest side bolsters.

[uofmiami]

Sorry to hear the bad news for those affected & hope it's not the first of many issues with these cars. I finally saw an M5 yesterday on the road here. I'd be ticked if told to not drive my brand new car & just wait. Glad I opted for my E63, considering this issue. Hope the wait goes quickly for you guys.

[SpotM5]

Originally Posted by uofmiami

Sorry to hear the bad news for those affected & hope it's not the first of many issues with these cars. I finally saw an M5 yesterday on the road here. I'd be ticked if told to not drive my brand new car & just wait. Glad I opted for my E63, considering this issue. Hope the wait goes quickly for you guys.

I'm certain BMW will make the corrections as quickly as possible. Some of you are trying to be opportunistic of the situation, so if that's how you roll - so be it. For now, my car is not on the VIN list, but I can feel for those who are affected.


@uofmiami - glad you like your E63 as it is a terrific machine. However, the guy that tried to race me in one yesterday isn't feeling so good about his today....

[King_Hendrik_CDN]

I was worried after I saw this post. And I contacted my dealer to double check. They ran the VIN. They said that my vehicle is fine. And it is not effected. Thank god.

[ORIGIN M.]

A phone call and or a letter in the mail does not remove liability, period.

Originally Posted by Richard Cranium

Once the owner is provided the "cease and desist" order to stop driving i'm sure if you have a an engine failure due to the oil pump you'll probably be staring at a lightening quick warranty void scenario......

[ORIGIN M.]

Makes you feel like a King doesn't it...

Originally Posted by King_Hendrik_CDN

I was worried after I saw this post. And I contacted my dealer to double check. They ran the VIN. They said that my vehicle is fine. And it is not effected. Thank god.

[fitmaster]

Wow!! I just back from Germany yesterday with the ED September 17 for our 2013 M6 convertible in Sakhir Orange, drove it around Germany for 1026 miles and its on the way back to FL. Glad we didn't have any issues. Would have been a problem because we were in several small towns in southern Germany. Our Chassis number is on the list. Guess we lucked out. Glad they caught it.

[mgallen]

Does anyone know how this affects those of us doing ED this coming week? My car is built and my VIN is NOT on the list.

I'm assuming I can still take delivery this week in Munich.

Sure would suck if I show up at the Welt and can't take delivery!

[skrambles297]

This situation is a serious downer for any owners who are involved because of the hassle and uncertainty involved. Mine is a May build, so I shouldn't be directly concerned, but I am feeling nervous, just in case BMW are wrong in focusing narrowly on a particular batch of parts! Only time will tell, I suppose.

BMW are to be commended for acting (fairly) swiftly in attempting to remedy the problem. Fingers crossed that they have.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by jgarvish

Thanks to everyone for their views on this. I'm interested in the contrary position to mine as I would really like to have my mind changed but so far I haven't heard any arguments that suffice to ease my concerns. I think it's important to remember that this isn't a used vehicle that we all were purchasing hoping that no one wrecked it or mistreated it leading to serious engine problems. I buy my cars new because I plan to keep them for a long time and do not have an interest in being saddled with a car with serious engine issues. Our (or at least my) intent and expectation was to buy a state of the art brand new problem free car with presumably no design problems that could lead to catastrophic engine failure. I was in Munich at the same time as Barry and was very distraught when his engine failed. To be honest I was hoping that the failure was because he abused the car or otherwise mistreated it. That's obviously not the case now that BMW has instituted this recall and I'm not convinced that even BMW knows what the real problem is. Further, I'm disturbed that they have not been truthful about the reason that they found out about this problem as a poster mentioned earlier in this thread. In addition, BMW has stopped production and apparently doesn't even currently have the part to fix the issue available. This is a sign of a very big issue IMHO and I think the clear implication is that BMW had not done enough testing if they identified this problem only after one of the very first US customers took delivery - and that customer had driven only a 100 or so miles and did this driving well within the break in limits. My suspicion is that this is a sign of a bigger problem and at the very least I have lost confidence in this car. If others have different or contrary thoughts on this I welcome those insights. If folks agree with me I also welcome those thoughts.

As others have explained, the problem is NOT a design problem. If it was it would have involved a recall on ALL M5's. Since this issue concerns a specific production period, the explanation from BMW sounds reasonable. The problem is related to the oil pump (supplied by MAHLE, TRW or some other supplier). BMW has vigorous tests to ensure that the delivered component is suited to it's task. When the component has been through QC and is deemed ok, the supplier(s) and BMW agrees on production. BMW does not then recheck every single oil pump they get delivered from the supplier(s). BMW might even have two or more different suppliers for the same part. This could be the case with the oil pump, explaining why only some cars are affected. (BTW. Sebastian Vettel had to stop his Red Bull Renault on the last laps of this years Italian Grand Prix due to a failed alternator, supplied by Magneti Marelli).

So, not a design problem, but a bad batch of oil pumps that needs replacing (i.e. the supplier has either not manufactured the oil pump according to design or has had sub quality parts in the pump).

The fact that European customers have driven the M5 for a year already, and does not need to change the oil pump also tells me that it's NOT a design fault, or lack of testing. They just happened to get a sub quality part supplied.

If all the oil pumps they have received since july are from the same batch/production, then they actually need to get a new batch from their supplier(s) before they can do the fix. I also suspect that they want to make sure the next batch is ok before using the pumps...

I also believe BMW has been truthful in explaining how they found out the problem. BarryB's engine failed, yes. But what caused the failure? That was discovered either by dismantling the engine or suspecting what caused it and then doing QC on oil pumps they had on the shelves. Either way, you can argue that it's technically correct that the problem was discovered and isolated to the oil pump through QC (by way of checking why it happened and what caused it).

As long as the earlier M5's are not ordered to stop driving, I can't see that it's a design fault (and hence not a BMW design flaw). All the facts in the case, so far, points to a bad batch of oil pumps.

[ucla95]

Agreed. Definitely not a design problem - they got a bad batch, it happens. Otherwise all these European cars would have blown engines and we would've heard about it.

[M54ccibo]

+1. Bad batch and some cars, mine included, have them. I am glad that BMW has taken the action they have. IMHO the only people who should be really upset about this are BarryB or anyone who has or will have an ED that is impacted. For everyone else it is a major inconvenience and a bummer our ///M cars have to sit and wait for parts. In an attempt to lessen that blow it looks as if BMW is halting production and sending approved or tested parts to dealers for repair.

The alternative is that BMW swept this under the rug and did not do anything. Play that forward: We drive our cars on ED, on mountain roads, the track, etc. and have a failure. How pissed would we be then?

Now, if my car sits in Nice for a month while BMW tries to figure out what to do with it...I'll feel quite differently. I'll cross that bridge if/when I get there.

[Pazzo009]

Originally Posted by cpiguy

My original comments of frustration came from BMW being so vague when I received the call. I own a Ferrari 458 as well, and was very aware of engine fires burning up cars around the world. The difference is that once isolated to an oil line insulation problem, the fix was available at dealers immediately.

I just would like to know when the solution will be available at our dealers rather than being told that letters will be going out with further information sometime in October. When I pushed BMWNA about the timing of the replacement oil pump, his supervisor confirmed that they will not have any further information until the middle of October. Really???

I’m a pretty low key guy and certainly get that this type of thing happens. I just expect specific info on the resolution rather than what appeared to be BS.

I totally agree. The answer they gave you would not suffice for me. I have mine on order and I am getting out of another lease. If there is uncertainty then I might be forced to get a different car. The fact that they have no answers or a can offer some sort of reasonable estimate is unsatisfactory and unprofessional when your in this league of cars with a clientele of people who have brand loyalty to BMW or M cars. This is a giant let down.

I think everyone's last concern should be the future of your engine. This issue sounds like it's something that either fails and you immediately get a indicator that it did, or its simply works and does it's job. If your car did not experience the indicator, then your engine is fine. Your utmost concern should be expedited resolution and compensation. Like someone else said, you spent 100k on a car most without even test driving first. Thats loyalty and trust...and it should be recognized and appreciated by BMW.

[DanyoM5]

I have owned many BMWs and currently love my new M5. It's just what I wanted, fast, comfortable, all the luxury with all the power....and now my fun was just stopped due to an oil pump. This just sucks but as a loyal guy...I hope they do the right thing....I bought mine. No lease...so I need something other than just a payment etc. I would like to see the option to trade out to a 14 when they come out for a reasonable trade in. Or an option to trade to any other series. My main worry is this will hurt residual value because the 13 will have a stigma associated to it. I will only drive it for 2 years max. So resale value is key to me. Most of time that is one of the great values of an M car. I also would hope they hook us up with great loaners. I have a great dealer, so I know they will do their best but this is a BMW NA issue. Car has been out for 2 years in Europe, so this should have been worked out. Oil pump supplier will end up paying for this...So BMW will lose my business long term if they don't make this right.

[dkreidel]

Originally Posted by DanyoM5

So resale value is key to me. I will only drive it for 2 years max.Most of time that is one of the great values of an M car.

Not really. M cars generally suffer much higher depreciation in the first few years over their generic BMW counterparts.

If resale was key you should have bought a 550.

[Diver]

I suppose the good news is it is only in the hundreds and not in the tens of thousands of vehicles.

[uofmiami]

Originally Posted by SpotM5

@uofmiami - glad you like your E63 as it is a terrific machine. However, the guy that tried to race me in one yesterday isn't feeling so good about his today....

Thanks, I only have about 200 miles on my ride so far, just picked it up on the 13th. Wonder if the E63 you raced had the Performance Package or not. Congrats on your M5 and enjoy it, glad you are not on the VIN list & hope your car never goes on it either.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

A phone call and or a letter in the mail does not remove liability, period.

No it does not but if you choose to not listen you place the liability on yourself.

BMW could always say in court that they told you, you understood and chose to act on your own, they are then off the hook because you did not follow the recommended course of action. That is the reason they are using phone calls, aside from the quicker action.

Same idea as not changing your oil- the owners manual tells you to, the car tells you to and you don't do it and the engine fails- its your fault and BMW owes you nothing.

If they fail to contact you, it is not your fault. Each state may have different interpretation of this but it is not cut and dry as you are not liable if you drive the car. That's my interpretation and understanding.

Originally Posted by dkreidel

Not really. M cars have generally have much higher depreciation in the first few years over their generic BMW counterparts.

If resale was key you should have bought a 550.

Yeah they do, hence the crap residuals!

[DanyoM5]

A few things to note....in the first 2 years of M production...M3 M5 etc. They hold resale historically better than their competitors. I don't want a 550 nor an E550. I am talking about apples to apples. 550s are Great to lease because BMW used to subsidize the residuals. Don't know a lot of people that buy them since a 70k 550 is only worth 45k 2 years later. As a M5 in the first years of production because of limited demand will hopefully be worth 70k after 2 years. So a much better car for about the same loss. Though I will agree once the new model comes out or a significant change happens to model, then the old model will drop off like rock. And yes, a car is an investment in fun, not one to make money. Unless of course you have a 1929 bugatti.

[Tylerstar]

So heres my situation as of now. Bmw Na calls me yesterday telling me not to drive the car. Telling me to call roadside assistance to pick it up. I then call them, they say they cannot come get it until monday. My dealer then says to drive to the dealer and drop it off, so I do so. I get their with some advisor that dosen't even have an idea what the recall even is. They say Oh we cannot get you a loaner car right now. No more bmws for me after this I am getting a 911 turbo. Im driving it out if it messes up it's not my fault they can give me a new car. Also note, the other 9 m5s that are on the list none of them even are at the dealer yet. This isn't even including that they don't even have a time frame how long my car may be there, or when they will receive the parts. This is very unorganized.