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      05-15-2020, 02:36 PM   #1
ianm5
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F10 M5 donít explode

Interesting chat with dealer today when I picked up the car today.

Obviously place was empty, talking through plexiglass like a chav off licence, smeared in alcohol gel.

Chatted about continuing warranty and whether it was worth it. The guy said that the F10 M5 is extremely robust/reliable unless you cane the life out of it.

Based on their experience if you give the thing basic care and respect you shouldnít anticipate any problems. Obviously we are all going to get the niggles you would expect from the F10 platform, but if you arenít launch controlling or tuning, the car is massively over engineered for day to day tasks. He basically said if you drive with all that power remorselessly the car will tear itself to bits.

Not trying to sell snake oil, just thought it was interesting. Doesnít really chime with the internet F10 M5 tales of engine replacements every third tankful.

I ran a (wonderful) m3 for years and the only expense was a bonnet pull cable.

Drove home looking at the car through a different lens, they are ridiculous value for the 20-30 they cost now.
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      05-15-2020, 04:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianm5 View Post
Interesting chat with dealer today when I picked up the car today.

Obviously place was empty, talking through plexiglass like a chav off licence, smeared in alcohol gel.

Chatted about continuing warranty and whether it was worth it. The guy said that the F10 M5 is extremely robust/reliable unless you cane the life out of it.

Based on their experience if you give the thing basic care and respect you shouldnít anticipate any problems. Obviously we are all going to get the niggles you would expect from the F10 platform, but if you arenít launch controlling or tuning, the car is massively over engineered for day to day tasks. He basically said if you drive with all that power remorselessly the car will tear itself to bits.

Not trying to sell snake oil, just thought it was interesting. Doesnít really chime with the internet F10 M5 tales of engine replacements every third tankful.

I ran a (wonderful) m3 for years and the only expense was a bonnet pull cable.

Drove home looking at the car through a different lens, they are ridiculous value for the 20-30 they cost now.
Go with that, it's only a small handful that are owned by clueless drivers that spin the bearings.
Only a short while ago we all read on here in UK a driver who said he was gunning it full tilt from home when cold and engine locked.
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      05-16-2020, 12:56 AM   #3
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I expect hes quite right - problem is if you get unlucky and something does happen the potential for ruinous bills is high...
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      05-16-2020, 10:31 AM   #4
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I can agree with his statement. A well maintained stock F10 M5 is a very reliable car. I've seen modded cars make it past 100k without any and some not make it past 30k because it was aggressively tuned and didn't have the proper mods and maintenance to support it. I was stage 3 and my car with the third owner is going strong at 95k miles.
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      05-16-2020, 12:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianm5 View Post
Interesting chat with dealer today when I picked up the car today.

Obviously place was empty, talking through plexiglass like a chav off licence, smeared in alcohol gel.

Chatted about continuing warranty and whether it was worth it. The guy said that the F10 M5 is extremely robust/reliable unless you cane the life out of it.

Based on their experience if you give the thing basic care and respect you shouldn’t anticipate any problems. Obviously we are all going to get the niggles you would expect from the F10 platform, but if you aren’t launch controlling or tuning, the car is massively over engineered for day to day tasks. He basically said if you drive with all that power remorselessly the car will tear itself to bits.

Not trying to sell snake oil, just thought it was interesting. Doesn’t really chime with the internet F10 M5 tales of engine replacements every third tankful.

I ran a (wonderful) m3 for years and the only expense was a bonnet pull cable.

Drove home looking at the car through a different lens, they are ridiculous value for the 20-30 they cost now.
That's good to hear Does that mean you won't renew the warranty?? Interested to see if his opinion has swayed you in any way??
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      05-16-2020, 02:55 PM   #6
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this is such a difficult one ie warranty vs no warranty

In my experience the warranty for me has been worth it and I won't have my m5 without a bmw extended warranty...All my problems over the years with the car have been very minor in the grand scheme of things but lets not forget something

Even though this car can be now bought for 20k second hand, its still a 100k car which basically means absolutely everything is dam expensive when it breaks and so is the labour etc etc.

For that reason alone, ill always have the warranty..........think its worth for the just in case moment.

if i however had something like a golf gti i think in this instance there would be more of an argument to not have the warranty
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      05-17-2020, 02:42 AM   #7
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Totally agreed with warranty just bought my f10 m5 with 18months warranty as the repair bill for engine or gearbox would write the car off
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      05-17-2020, 02:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J11SEK View Post
That's good to hear Does that mean you won't renew the warranty?? Interested to see if his opinion has swayed you in any way??
The TPMS was a single valve, £170. I have a 250 excess so I have to pay all that. The CE is a £500 fix, I will pay 250, so £420 in total. Thatís on top of the c£800 for the warranty. I donít really feel like this year has been good value although like others I have enjoyed the peace of mind. I had to fight for the handle to be fixed, and I noted that the exclusions on the warranty are surprisingly extensive. The dealer said other than the two issues the car was in perfect order so 2 faulty items and 24,998 non faulty items, the cars are really well engineered.

Iím still sub 60k miles so Iíll probably renew next year but I definitely wonít take the excess option. Itís pretty hard to argue against the argument that a single M5 engine widget would cost more than the warranty.

It would be helpful to have a sticky thread where we share all the faults experienced in these cars and whether they are in the scope of warranty. For the cars reaching 7-8yrs old thereís probably some smart preventative work that would be useful to know too.
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      05-17-2020, 03:11 PM   #9
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my last warranty experience was probably the worst ive ever experienced and is the sole reason why when i sell my f10 m5 i won't be coming back to bmw even though i have since changed where my car gets seen and im currently happy

so...about 2 years ago the grommet in the bulk head of my car gave way...The part is less than 10 pounds but water ingress led to a bill of nearly 4k which was pretty much all labour....It turns out that in my mind anyway, the garage was trying to shaft me by dismantling bits of the car that didn't need dismantling...eg my exhaust manifold and exhaust itself and hence the big bill. So if you want to talk about preventative stuff, this would def be top of my list and is apparently quite a common thing on the 5 series platform,

Luckily no damage was done to electrics etc

However I kicked up a huge fuss with BMW directly and even though water ingress is not covered by warranty, the fact that I had warranty led to a substantial portion of the bill being paid as a gesture of good will...So sometimes even when the policy says that the warranty does not cover xyz, sometimes just having it helps with situations like this when a gesture of good will can be considered

Motor Ombudsman got involved in the end as well...I won't go into it here but in my mind it comes down to having extended BMW warranty in the first place, finding the right service centre and then developing a good relationship with the service technique

I probably had just one bad experience with this centre however it has been enough to put me off the brand itself even though my car is mint and ive loved owning it
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      05-19-2020, 05:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbru View Post
my last warranty experience was probably the worst ive ever experienced and is the sole reason why when i sell my f10 m5 i won't be coming back to bmw even though i have since changed where my car gets seen and im currently happy

so...about 2 years ago the grommet in the bulk head of my car gave way...The part is less than 10 pounds but water ingress led to a bill of nearly 4k which was pretty much all labour....It turns out that in my mind anyway, the garage was trying to shaft me by dismantling bits of the car that didn't need dismantling...eg my exhaust manifold and exhaust itself and hence the big bill. So if you want to talk about preventative stuff, this would def be top of my list and is apparently quite a common thing on the 5 series platform,

Luckily no damage was done to electrics etc

However I kicked up a huge fuss with BMW directly and even though water ingress is not covered by warranty, the fact that I had warranty led to a substantial portion of the bill being paid as a gesture of good will...So sometimes even when the policy says that the warranty does not cover xyz, sometimes just having it helps with situations like this when a gesture of good will can be considered

Motor Ombudsman got involved in the end as well...I won't go into it here but in my mind it comes down to having extended BMW warranty in the first place, finding the right service centre and then developing a good relationship with the service technique

I probably had just one bad experience with this centre however it has been enough to put me off the brand itself even though my car is mint and ive loved owning it
I can see how that would sour the experience for many of us here. I am unsure if I would move away from the platform completely though, as it is still one heck of a fun car to drive as you mentioned.
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      05-19-2020, 07:08 AM   #11
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they way i look at is that a plastic grommet should not have the potential to cause nearly 4kks worth of bill to rectify, especially on a modern day car...

First problem was that BMW centrally would not acknowledge this and simply stated it was normal wear and tear...

Second problem was the shoddy work undertaken by the dealer in that it had to go backwards and forwards over the course of 3 months to diagnose and repair properly

As part of this process they effectively tried to shaft me in terms of the work they were doing to up the bill....

Like I said, ive now moved service departments since this happened some 3 years ago and cant speak highly enough of where i currently take my car but this single experience was enough to put me off bmw completely im afraid. Plenty other brands out there that offer similar packages to an M5 and also in estate variants so willing to give them a go for my next car
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      05-19-2020, 08:35 AM   #12
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Choosing the right dealer does make a huge difference, if they are on-side and work with you it can be the difference between getting the warranty work approved and not.

Dick Lovett have been fantastic with me, both Bristol and Bath
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      05-19-2020, 03:00 PM   #13
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completely agree
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      05-19-2020, 04:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbru View Post
they way i look at is that a plastic grommet should not have the potential to cause nearly 4kks worth of bill to rectify, especially on a modern day car...

First problem was that BMW centrally would not acknowledge this and simply stated it was normal wear and tear...

Second problem was the shoddy work undertaken by the dealer in that it had to go backwards and forwards over the course of 3 months to diagnose and repair properly

As part of this process they effectively tried to shaft me in terms of the work they were doing to up the bill....

Like I said, ive now moved service departments since this happened some 3 years ago and cant speak highly enough of where i currently take my car but this single experience was enough to put me off bmw completely im afraid. Plenty other brands out there that offer similar packages to an M5 and also in estate variants so willing to give them a go for my next car
Sorry to read all this.

I really like my local dealer but I donít seem to be able to Ďtrustí them.

Even with this particular negligible claim, some of the interaction with the dealer was a bit .... ahem .... confused, and I only got the correct outcome when I intervened with dealer and warranty people.

Iíd like to be able to go to an independent but Iím not convinced that a BMW orientated independent has the same capability for these very complicated M cars.
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      05-20-2020, 05:00 AM   #15
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Yes you have to choose your service partner well, I have had a 20yr relationship with Sytner Bham Central which is now closed down for good. Never had any warranty work refuted, numerous examples of support from BMW GB and Bham ie 2 replacement M6s over the years, turbos / headlamp units replaced out of warranty etc, etc

I can honestly say thay their service, technical and sales personnel have been there for years too thats a good sign.

Recently used Sytner Newport owing to it being close to work, what a cock up, an entire tale of woe.

I should have walked when the service advisor told me "this is the 1st M6s he has seen at Newport"

Suffice to say I am now on the hunt for a decent dealer in the West Mids area

Solihul for me a big NO
Oldbury hit and miss
Rybrook Warwick - OK
Sutton - OK


Whose left ?

By the way give the Oldbury bodyshop a wide berth, they royaly f""cked up my car after some muppet put a brick throug the rear window and charged my insurer the grand sum of £33k in repairs at which point BMW GB intervened and replaced the car with a bran new one

Here is my old car being ragged around after it was purchased back and retailed as an AUC and at the time of me pick up, so if anyone into buying this at some stage please dont




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      05-20-2020, 05:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taheemr View Post
Yes you have to choose your service partner well, I have had a 20yr relationship with Sytner Bham Central which is now closed down for good. Never had any warranty work refuted, numerous examples of support from BMW GB and Bham ie 2 replacement M6s over the years, turbos / headlamp units replaced out of warranty etc, etc

I can honestly say thay their service, technical and sales personnel have been there for years too thats a good sign.

Recently used Sytner Newport owing to it being close to work, what a cock up, an entire tale of woe.

I should have walked when the service advisor told me "this is the 1st M6s he has seen at Newport"

Suffice to say I am now on the hunt for a decent dealer in the West Mids area

Solihul for me a big NO
Oldbury hit and miss
Rybrook Warwick - OK
Sutton - OK


Whose left ?

By the way give the Oldbury bodyshop a wide berth, they royaly f""cked up my car after some muppet put a brick throug the rear window and charged my insurer the grand sum of £33k in repairs at which point BMW GB intervened and replaced the car with a bran new one

Here is my old car being ragged around after it was purchased back and retailed as an AUC and at the time of me pick up, so if anyone into buying this at some stage please dont




What about Dick Lovett Bristol, you could probably pass it driving to Newport as its right next to the M5 at Cribbs Causeway
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      05-20-2020, 05:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taheemr View Post
Yes you have to choose your service partner well, I have had a 20yr relationship with Sytner Bham Central which is now closed down for good. Never had any warranty work refuted, numerous examples of support from BMW GB and Bham ie 2 replacement M6s over the years, turbos / headlamp units replaced out of warranty etc, etc

I can honestly say thay their service, technical and sales personnel have been there for years too thats a good sign.

Recently used Sytner Newport owing to it being close to work, what a cock up, an entire tale of woe.

I should have walked when the service advisor told me "this is the 1st M6s he has seen at Newport"

Suffice to say I am now on the hunt for a decent dealer in the West Mids area

Solihul for me a big NO
Oldbury hit and miss
Rybrook Warwick - OK
Sutton - OK


Whose left ?

By the way give the Oldbury bodyshop a wide berth, they royaly f""cked up my car after some muppet put a brick throug the rear window and charged my insurer the grand sum of £33k in repairs at which point BMW GB intervened and replaced the car with a bran new one

Here is my old car being ragged around after it was purchased back and retailed as an AUC and at the time of me pick up, so if anyone into buying this at some stage please dont





Just out of interest what kind of damage did the brick do?

Also - at the expense of starting a debate (which I hope not), my personal opinion is that he's not really "ragging" the car in the video, that's how you drive an M car now and again.....(when warmed up). I would also choose somewhere with alot less trafic and not as many 2nd gear pulls like he did.
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      05-20-2020, 06:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbru View Post
they way i look at is that a plastic grommet should not have the potential to cause nearly 4kks worth of bill to rectify, especially on a modern day car...

First problem was that BMW centrally would not acknowledge this and simply stated it was normal wear and tear...

Second problem was the shoddy work undertaken by the dealer in that it had to go backwards and forwards over the course of 3 months to diagnose and repair properly

As part of this process they effectively tried to shaft me in terms of the work they were doing to up the bill....

Like I said, ive now moved service departments since this happened some 3 years ago and cant speak highly enough of where i currently take my car but this single experience was enough to put me off bmw completely im afraid. Plenty other brands out there that offer similar packages to an M5 and also in estate variants so willing to give them a go for my next car
Possible for you to pin point exactly where the faulty grommet was on the bulkhead?
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      05-20-2020, 07:03 AM   #19
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In summary each and every part that had come into contact with the brick or glass residue had to be replaced, even had a new roof , seat belts, rear door cards, rear leather, climate controller, rear lights etc,etc replaced as well as the entire rear end of the car getting paintine to, the parts bill was the killer, i recall the rear door cards were c£2k per side, the roof was about £3k.

Even after all this the car was returned a dogs dinner, the rear leather grain and stitching didnt match the front after numerous attempts, the rear painted section of the car ie back door / rear qtr were polished to a glass finish so were totally different to front doors and wings interms of finish.

After all this the Sytner resfused to put right claiming my expectation was to high for a repair. They'd even machine polished over the new shawdowline trim and wrecked it with their machine


Re driving, I'd never dick around in that way given the road conditions
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      05-20-2020, 07:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taheemr View Post
In summary each and every part that had come into contact with the brick or glass residue had to be replaced, even had a new roof , seat belts, rear door cards, rear leather, climate controller, rear lights etc,etc replaced as well as the entire rear end of the car getting paintine to, the parts bill was the killer, i recall the rear door cards were c£2k per side, the roof was about £3k.

Even after all this the car was returned a dogs dinner, the rear leather grain and stitching didnt match the front after numerous attempts, the rear painted section of the car ie back door / rear qtr were polished to a glass finish so were totally different to front doors and wings interms of finish.

After all this the Sytner resfused to put right claiming my expectation was to high for a repair. They'd even machine polished over the new shawdowline trim and wrecked it with their machine


Re driving, I'd never dick around in that way given the road conditions
Sounds horrible, well it was great you got a new M6 out of it.
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      05-20-2020, 07:41 AM   #21
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yes worked out well in the end, even managed to spec the items that I'd missed off of the 1st one thanks to BMW GB
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