MSR Intake Disaster

[waleed760@gmail.com]

Hi

A very Bad day started this year

i have 2013 M5 F10

MSR Intake Not anymore
ESS Tune Stage 1+ the best on the business

i don't like to post something bad about anybody but if some call you not honest i will.

MSR Intake The best on the market the one will increase you 30 whp ! destroyed my turbo and caused a scratches on my cylinders.

The problem is clear. Simply the intake filter is too light so it let the dust go inside since we usually have a dusty climate, it let small stone enter causing a damage to my turbo . That damaged part of it this part gone inside the engine leading scratches on cylinder wall.

i contacted Gillan MSR Owner asking to return and refund me but after 40 emails he end up uploading a video on his channel showing one customer with high mileage and no issue he is playing the game right.also he is calling me not honest and layer and now guess what he is not responding.also he clamming is the tuning did this . a company which they have 40 year of tuning experience.

to recover from that problem i have to pay 47k for a new turbo and block.


i attache the picture of the damaged turbo and cylinders scratches.

[Craze]

If i lived in a dusty climate i doubt id be modifing my intake in any way!

[M5 TT]

That's not good especially given the price of the intake. Certainly looks like debris issue / damage.

[k3silk]

Won't be buying that intake... Looks like stock or K&N filter for me. Sucks about your loss hope you can work everything out.

[waleed760@gmail.com]

who will expect this kind of problem on intake mod only and cost that much.

[KMORGSM5]

Sorry to hear that. Curious as to how the block is damaged? If it is scratched sleeves, you can re sleeve the block with stock alusil sleeves.

[waleed760@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by KMORGSM5

Sorry to hear that. Curious as to how the block is damaged? If it is scratched sleeves, you can re sleeve the block with stock alusil sleeves.

Sadly we don’t have the parts and we don’t have that professional people to do it 100%

[KMORGSM5]

Originally Posted by waleed760@gmail.com

Sadly we don’t have the parts and we don’t have that professional people to do it 100%

47k USD to replace it? Might as well send it to Steve Dinan and have a built long block from him. If only thing is scratched sleeves from the block (will only know on tear down the condition of the block) then its a core swap and you are looking at around 20-22k.

This way you get a built motor that will be well built and cheaper than paying BMW for a new motor.

How is the crank case breather? Have a pic of that? that would shot that enough debris got into the oil system and could have fucked more inside the motor than just scoring on the sleeves, turbos, etc.

[Darkshear]

I'm sincerely sorry to hear about the trouble. Hopefully you're able to reach a speedy and inexpensive resolution.

I'd like to be a little bit of a "devil's advocate" here for just a moment, only because you're in a situation that isn't common around the world. I want to be clear as Hell that I'm in no way taking MSR's side, nor yours. I'm only trying to display a bit of objectivity.

You're in a geographical location where sand and dust exists with a likeness to no other. On average, a single grain of sand is 90 microns in diameter. In the UAE however, you're subjected to particles FAR smaller. In 2016, the World Health Organization actually issued findings in regard to human health that particles as small as 2.5 microns in diameter were present in abundance. To put that in to perspective, dust pollen and mold are about 10 microns in diameter. Their concern here is that those incredibly small bits of particles which are 20 times smaller in diameter than a human hair are more likely to penetrate organs in your body causing long term respiratory and other health issues.

So with that in mind, consider the filter element that MSR is using. It's optimized for high flow, which means the material that is capable of capturing particulates is not as dense, allowing more air to pass through faster. Based on the debris material I saw in your video, I would speculate that you're working with incredibly fine particles that are not caught by the air filters.

I'd imagine that if you were to go to any high-flow air filter, regardless of manufacturer, you'd probably have a similar effect.

Much like special accommodations need to be made for "high altitude" situations, I would guess that you would be placed in a similar situation as well and need to take measures to ensure the safety of the air being ingested.

Using K&N as just one random example, they oil their filters in order to help compensate for the lower density material; the oil will attract finer particles that would otherwise be passed.

It's also probably worth noting that when vehicle manufacturer tests a car, they have the budget to put one in just about every environment and condition, while these aftermarket performance companies don't have that ability.

I can't say with any degree of certainty that your issue is the result of a design flaw, defect in manufacturing, characteristic of environment, or anything else. My statement above is only intended to encourage consideration for your specific circumstance.

[Archiebabes]

Originally Posted by Darkshear

I'm sincerely sorry to hear about the trouble. Hopefully you're able to reach a speedy and inexpensive resolution.

I'd like to be a little bit of a "devil's advocate" here for just a moment, only because you're in a situation that isn't common around the world. I want to be clear as Hell that I'm in no way taking MSR's side, nor yours. I'm only trying to display a bit of objectivity.

You're in a geographical location where sand and dust exists with a likeness to no other. On average, a single grain of sand is 90 microns in diameter. In the UAE however, you're subjected to particles FAR smaller. In 2016, the World Health Organization actually issued findings in regard to human health that particles as small as 2.5 microns in diameter were present in abundance. To put that in to perspective, dust pollen and mold are about 10 microns in diameter. Their concern here is that those incredibly small bits of particles which are 20 times smaller in diameter than a human hair are more likely to penetrate organs in your body causing long term respiratory and other health issues.

So with that in mind, consider the filter element that MSR is using. It's optimized for high flow, which means the material that is capable of capturing particulates is not as dense, allowing more air to pass through faster. Based on the debris material I saw in your video, I would speculate that you're working with incredibly fine particles that are not caught by the air filters.

I'd imagine that if you were to go to any high-flow air filter, regardless of manufacturer, you'd probably have a similar effect.

Much like special accommodations need to be made for "high altitude" situations, I would guess that you would be placed in a similar situation as well and need to take measures to ensure the safety of the air being ingested.

Using K&N as just one random example, they oil their filters in order to help compensate for the lower density material; the oil will attract finer particles that would otherwise be passed.

It's also probably worth noting that when vehicle manufacturer tests a car, they have the budget to put one in just about every environment and condition, while these aftermarket performance companies don't have that ability.

I can't say with any degree of certainty that your issue is the result of a design flaw, defect in manufacturing, characteristic of environment, or anything else. My statement above is only intended to encourage consideration for your specific circumstance.

In short if you live in the UAE keep your OEM Panel Filter and add the Charcoal Filter to even protect your engine from the small dust particles.

[bm5bullit]

While I agree, in general, with Darkshear's analysis of filtering capabilities of various types of filtering media; I do agree that these filtering elements were pushed way beyond reasonable for that type of environment. I have had the MSR CAI on my car for a few years and I live in West Texas which is desert for the most part. My car is not a daily driver but, I have racked up quite a few miles on my car with the MSR setup and still love it. On bad weather days, I just don't drive it because the weather also is hard on everything.

Please note the U.S. military has had numerous filtering problems with both their ground and airborne equipment and has caused numerous small disasters when pushed to operating their equipment in "bad" weather. The dust storms in the region of the world are legendary. Yes, I am siding with George and MSR only because he has excellent products which have not produced the type of damage the you experienced. Aftermarket speed equipment will alter longevity when not used wisely. Sorry for your unfortunate situation.

[apexlocator]

Originally Posted by KMORGSM5

47k USD to replace it? Might as well send it to Steve Dinan and have a built long block from him. If only thing is scratched sleeves from the block (will only know on tear down the condition of the block) then its a core swap and you are looking at around 20-22k.

This way you get a built motor that will be well built and cheaper than paying BMW for a new motor.

How is the crank case breather? Have a pic of that? that would shot that enough debris got into the oil system and could have fucked more inside the motor than just scoring on the sleeves, turbos, etc.

This is a good suggestion, if you have access to the skill sets necessary to reassemble everything; BMW in your country may not want to mess around with 3rd party aftermarket installs.

Yes, I'd go oem intake, or if you want to go front mount again, k&n with sleeves at the least.
This is not really an intake design flaw, just a choice in the filter selection.

[M5Rlz]

Call alpha logic in Dubai.


Second I agree with Darkshear, I think this was far more a factor environment mixed with the part.

[Northern X5M]

Everyone running the MSR and similar intakes knows the risks, myself included. Pay to play. We all do feel the OP's pain though. I am sure you can find a used engine a lot cheaper that $47K.

[waleed760@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by KMORGSM5

47k USD to replace it? Might as well send it to Steve Dinan and have a built long block from him. If only thing is scratched sleeves from the block (will only know on tear down the condition of the block) then its a core swap and you are looking at around 20-22k.

This way you get a built motor that will be well built and cheaper than paying BMW for a new motor.

How is the crank case breather? Have a pic of that? that would shot that enough debris got into the oil system and could have fucked more inside the motor than just scoring on the sleeves, turbos, etc.

don't forget that i am from kuwait and the shipping charges will be high its better for me to sell the car and close the M chapter

[waleed760@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by Darkshear

I'm sincerely sorry to hear about the trouble. Hopefully you're able to reach a speedy and inexpensive resolution.

I'd like to be a little bit of a "devil's advocate" here for just a moment, only because you're in a situation that isn't common around the world. I want to be clear as Hell that I'm in no way taking MSR's side, nor yours. I'm only trying to display a bit of objectivity.

You're in a geographical location where sand and dust exists with a likeness to no other. On average, a single grain of sand is 90 microns in diameter. In the UAE however, you're subjected to particles FAR smaller. In 2016, the World Health Organization actually issued findings in regard to human health that particles as small as 2.5 microns in diameter were present in abundance. To put that in to perspective, dust pollen and mold are about 10 microns in diameter. Their concern here is that those incredibly small bits of particles which are 20 times smaller in diameter than a human hair are more likely to penetrate organs in your body causing long term respiratory and other health issues.

So with that in mind, consider the filter element that MSR is using. It's optimized for high flow, which means the material that is capable of capturing particulates is not as dense, allowing more air to pass through faster. Based on the debris material I saw in your video, I would speculate that you're working with incredibly fine particles that are not caught by the air filters.

I'd imagine that if you were to go to any high-flow air filter, regardless of manufacturer, you'd probably have a similar effect.

Much like special accommodations need to be made for "high altitude" situations, I would guess that you would be placed in a similar situation as well and need to take measures to ensure the safety of the air being ingested.

Using K&N as just one random example, they oil their filters in order to help compensate for the lower density material; the oil will attract finer particles that would otherwise be passed.

It's also probably worth noting that when vehicle manufacturer tests a car, they have the budget to put one in just about every environment and condition, while these aftermarket performance companies don't have that ability.

I can't say with any degree of certainty that your issue is the result of a design flaw, defect in manufacturing, characteristic of environment, or anything else. My statement above is only intended to encourage consideration for your specific circumstance.

at what price am paying which is 2700 $ it should be tested in all environment it worth nothing But guess what marketing can do.

[waleed760@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by Northern X5M

Everyone running the MSR and similar intakes knows the risks, myself included. Pay to play. We all do feel the OP's pain though. I am sure you can find a used engine a lot cheaper that $47K.

but that kind of risk is very high for intake.its a rare car in my country there no many engine for sale

[Mr_M5Guy]

I'm local to MSR and at least 10 to 15 guys are running his intake in our area. There has not been any problems what so ever. I have had it on my car for 3 years and 30k miles.

[waleed760@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by Mr_M5Guy

I'm local to MSR and at least 10 to 15 guys are running his intake in our area. There has not been any problems what so ever. I have had it on my car for 3 years and 30k miles.

if his 100% sure why he's posting this video

and you can see on this video he put the black cover which is not shown on any of his post and seems cleaned every thing for this video. he posted this video while i am contacting him by email.

i have one guy he installed it with black cover and his car started turning off after that he removed it !

[TheHouseWon]

Hope you get this resolved.

Built motor might be the best option

[DCT OFF]

Originally Posted by waleed760@gmail.com

if his 100% sure why he's posting this video

and you can see on this video he put the black cover which is not shown on any of his post and seems cleaned every thing for this video. he posted this video while i am contacting him by email.

i have one guy he installed it with black cover and his car started turning off after that he removed it !

This is my car MSR contacted me and wanted to shoot a video of the car,I have been running the MSR RND intake with filter on my car for over 3.5 years and absolutely no issues,however I do cleaned the intake a few times a year,I have put over 90,000 miles on my with the intake/filter and running his stage 3 Tune,everyone knows me ,I’ve always been running the prefilters because I was worried about rain and dust.He didn’t clean or add prefilters,I drove on hour away straight to his shop just for him to make this video to show if you maintain your car and run prefilters as recommended it will be in mint condition even at a 100,000 miles.you can see all my 1/2 mile races and car shows my car always has the prefilters .you can see oil residue and fine dust.so not sure what you’re talking about he didn’t clean anything I maintain my car because I want it to last

[tony.m6]

Dude are you serious, your car looks like it was in a flood holy shit! I'm in Florida and have been running MSR INTAKE on my last two M5's and I can tell you I've never seen anything close to this and we have lots of sand, dust and always raining here. I asked MSR if I should run the prefilter and he recommended because of my area but I don't have the patience to slip them off and on lol plus I like the look of the filters.
Even though I feel bad for you and what happened!! But going on the forums and trashing a company for what ever reason is not cool and I'm sure so many here will agree. Sorry man just giving my opinion and personal experience. Peace!