E 85 fuel

[BBHMM]

Hi, can anyone explain me cons and pros of E 85 and if I can run on E-85 with my current setup or what I need to run it?
setup:
Stage 2 tune
Catless dp
Eventuri intakes
CSF coolers

[G.Ride Garage]

Pretty sure a new hpfp, a secondary lpfp and a revised tune.

[Mr. M6]

this
https://euroklasse.com/products/bmw-...fps-w-adaptprs
and tune

[BBHMM]

Originally Posted by Mr. M6

this
https://euroklasse.com/products/bmw-...fps-w-adaptprs
and tune

Originally Posted by Mr. M6

this
https://euroklasse.com/products/bmw-...fps-w-adaptprs
and tune

But what benefits from running E-85
I know its cheap but what else?

[707M5]

Haven't heard of anyone running full e85 on these cars. From what I've seen they say running e30 or e40 blend is enough for these motors. No need for full e85.

[G.Ride Garage]

Originally Posted by BBHMM

But what benefits from running E-85
I know its cheap but what else?

Higher octane than pump gas, cooler combustion chamber temperatures.

[M5_Raz]

Sorry, but why do you want it if you don't even know the benefits?

[G.Ride Garage]

Originally Posted by 707M5

Haven't heard of anyone running full e85 on these cars. From what I've seen they say running e30 or e40 blend if enough for these motors. No need for full e85.

I wish there was more information out there. I wonder what the limits are with high flow lpfp, hpfp and stock injectors.

[Mr. M6]

Originally Posted by BBHMM

But what benefits from running E-85
I know its cheap but what else?

higher octane = more power with E85 tune

[BBHMM]

Originally Posted by M5_Raz

Sorry, but why do you want it if you don't even know the benefits?

Originally Posted by M5_Raz

Sorry, but why do you want it if you don't even know the benefits?

Just curious, always interesting to learn something new
So can run with more power without buying racing fuel (we have in Chicago 8$ per gallon 100octane)
Now is question how safe is that? Also can I mix it with 93octane without adding lpfp&hpfp and with my current st2 tune?

[M5_Raz]

Originally Posted by BBHMM

Just curious, always interesting to learn something new So you can run with more power without buying racing fuel (we have in Chicago 8$ per gallon 100octane)
Now is question how safe is that? Also can I mix it with 93octane without adding lpfp&hpfp and with my current st2 tune?

Oh got it. I wouldn't mess with e85 without a new fuel system. Haven't heard of anyone using more than e-30. Why not try meth? That seems popular and much less expensive

[G.Ride Garage]

Originally Posted by BBHMM

Just curious, always interesting to learn something new
So can run with more power without buying racing fuel (we have in Chicago 8$ per gallon 100octane)
Now is question how safe is that? Also can I mix it with 93octane without adding lpfp&hpfp and with my current st2 tune?

With the proper supporting mods, its safe to run. From what I've read, E20 is about the max you can run with no supporting mods and not have a problem. I've done it before in mine but never data logged it so I can't confirm what my fuel trims looked like or if it gave me anymore power.

I've also read E30-E50 is about all you can run with a tune only. Anyone with more experience, feel free to correct that info.

I would contact your tuner and ask them to be 100% sure.

Here's a calculator to find out how much ethanol you need to mix to gasoline to get the right mixture. Remember, most pump gas is already E10 (at least in California)

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php

[RPiM5]

I guess I'll chime into this thread since this is an area that not a lot of people are informed on.

First of all I have no idea what is the maximum mix of Ethanol that is right for the S63tu stock. I suggest you use a calculator for that.

But since many people don't have a clue, E85 is a fuel that can be used in almost any engine. It's an alcohol based fuel, but most cars don't use it simply because the software/hardware isn't setup to use E85 optimally. The biggest piece of hardware you want when running an E85 is a content analyzer. This lets the engine know how to adjust the fueling while the engine is running.

So for the S63tu specifically, there are basically only two reasons you would want to run with full E85 or a large content of E85, the first reason is to make power, the second reason is to lower your vehicles emissions.

E85 is a higher octane fuel, higher octane fuels are needed to prevent detonation or knock inside the cylinder under high pressures, or in other words when your making lots of power. Or in simple terms, E85 let's your engine make more power without the fear of your engine blowing up.

For the S63tu, the engine from the factory is not setup for E85 use. This is because when using E85, it's not as energy dense as regular unleaded gasoline, so you need more E85 to have the same energy density as a gallon of gasoline. Because you need more E85, you need to have a fueling system for the engine that can keep up with the amount needed to burn the fuel at a certain rate. Therefore you need either a higher pressure of fuel injection or a wider flow of fuel from larger fuel lines, or both.

The stock S63tu HPFP's pump out at 200bar. While the stock F10 M5 fuel injectors only pump out at 250bar. Now the stock F90 S63tu4 fuel pumps, pressurize at 350bar, much higher. So if you install the F90 pumps onto an F10 M5, you are still going to be limited by the fuel injectors. Additionally, if you intend on running all E85 in your fuel tank, then a higher HPFP is not enough, you will also need to upgrade the LPFP. So by just installing the F90 HPFP's into your F10, it may not be enough if you truly want to use 100% E85 (which by the way, all E85 you get at the pumps are not even full E85. They are all different levels of ethanol at each gas station, which is why you really need a content analyzer too).

The second thing to think about is your ECU tune. If your running a stock tune or even an aftermarket tune, putting any amount of E85 into your gas tank isn't going to do much for you. Because your tune is not configured for a higher Ethanol Content, and again, how would the tune know exactly how much to adjust the trims by without an content analyzer? You are much better off just adding some octane booster, since that will definitely help to prevent knock, which will allow you to run a little bit higher power levels. But you can also specifically configure a tune to use some E85 at a certain amount of E85 that the tune can expect to have all of the time. One of the only tuners that I know of that does this is Mission Performance, where they have tunes available for the F10 M5 to set it to permanently use like an E30 mix or something. You will have to work with them to get what you want.

A better option to go with if you intend on truly harnessing the power of E85 for the F10 M5 is Spool Performance. They make a HPFP that puts out 250bar and also an upgrade for the LPFP also, but they also include with their kits two key pieces that are needed to make E85 viable for the engine. One is a content analyzer, the other is much bigger fuel lines than the stock ones. So although their HPFP's only put out 250bar, which the stock fuel injectors are at anyway, the fuel lines they provide allow for a much greater flow rate of fuel to the engine for full E85 applications.

On these S63tu engines, the fueling pressure is a limiting factor on how much power can be made, unfortunately. The other way to make big power on these engines is to slap giant turbos onto the engine, but then there is also a limit on that too, because too much boost will also stress out other engine components that simply cannot handle so much boost and something will fail eventually. So upgrading to a better fueling system is the safer bet. Or you could simply just fill your tank with Race Gas all the time with the stock fuel system and make just as much power, but you would have to do a cost/benefit analysis. The Spool system is not cheap, and labor will be intensive for an install. But also Race Gas is crazy expensive.

Also, the other downside to going full E85 is that your fuel economy will drop significantly, probably somewhere between 15 - 25% less than gasoline.

It is theoretically possible to make big power on the S63tu without slapping giant turbos on, by upgrading the fueling system and using more reasonable turbos, such as GTX3071/76s and other supporting mods, but as always, with big power, you will need a forged motor too.

I would say the most economical setup is to get a tune for your car setup for a bit higher octane such as 98 octane and just throw a bottle of octane booster in your tank with every other fill up, if you want to make some extra power. That way you won't have to spend thousands upgrading your fuel system. I would say any kind of decent tune on these engines will get you up to the limits before you have to forge the engine and upgrade the DCT clutches anyway. If your looking for big power from these motors, in all honesty, it's the wrong platform for that. Therefore putting E85 in these motors is kind of pointless in my opinion, but to each their own.

[Flo1989]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

One of the only tuners that I know of that does this is Mission Performance, where they have tunes available for the F10 M5 to set it to permanently use like an E30 mix or something. You will have to work with them to get what you want.

Very well put; your whole write-up.

I have the Mission Performance tune that you speak of where Alex “modified the fuel mapping system” to accommodate for a E30 blend. I also just had a fuel content analyzer installed a couple weeks ago by “Fuel-It” and you’re right, definitely highly recommend one if anyone plans to run a E85 blend. Keeps everything in line and gives you a peace of mind.

And to add, the car pulls hard with this set up vs straight 93. A good .4-.5 seconds faster on a 60-130 run.

[Mr. M6]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I would say any kind of decent tune on these engines will get you up to the limits before you have to forge the engine and upgrade the DCT clutches anyway. If your looking for big power from these motors, in all honesty, it's the wrong platform for that. Therefore putting E85 in these motors is kind of pointless in my opinion, but to each their own.

100% agreed