Manual Transmission F10 M5 Respotted Just Ahead of US Orders. What Will You Order?

[xc JET M]

lest you forget, this is a different car than what you have. if this is an m3 i agree manual would be better. this is a four door executive saloon.

[ddmerino]

I think some just do not get the point. In the U.S. it is hardly possible to go greater than 55MPH without the cops behind you. Unless you go to the tracks where a DCT would be desirable for fast shifting, most people driving a manual in the U.S. enjoy the involvement with the car's acceleration -- this is not some "macho" thing that some seem to insinuate is the reason -- albeit somewhat infantile as what Mr JBlack4083 refer to as "manhood complex". I have experienced driving friends' M3's with DCT on long/short drives and just did not enjoy the experience -- found it really boring. To each his own and to say that anybody has a manhood complex just because of this is rather telling of the person insinuating such. Again, it is "involvement in driving" experience that most manual enthusiasts are craving and not because they have a manhood complex.

[xc JET M]

formula drivers don't use manual trans. so you're saying they're tards? driving a manual doesn't require skill. i thought myself to drive a manual when i was 13 but i prefer the dct for my m5 and i have an smg on my e60 m5. and i notice you have an all wheel drive car. anybody can drive an all wheel drive car. no skill required. i say don't judge people based on their preferences.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by ddmerino

I think some just do not get the point. In the U.S. it is hardly possible to go greater than 55MPH without the cops behind you. Unless you go to the tracks where a DCT would be desirable for fast shifting, most people driving a manual in the U.S. enjoy the involvement with the car's acceleration -- this is not some "macho" thing that some seem to insinuate is the reason -- albeit somewhat infantile as what Mr JBlack4083 refer to as "manhood complex". I have experienced driving friends' M3's with DCT on long/short drives and just did not enjoy the experience -- found it really boring. To each his own and to say that anybody has a manhood complex just because of this is rather telling of the person insinuating such. Again, it is "involvement in driving" experience that most manual enthusiasts are craving and not because they have a manhood complex.

Well said.

This is exactly why many Americans still prefer manual. For some, it's a more engaging experience on our slow roads and commutes.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Jason

But in the U.S., there is a small but very stable following of customers who simply insist on the manual.

This makes me proud to be an American

[Seattle S65B40]

I voted 6MT but intend on getting the M6 configured as such. I assume there will be a 6MT in the M6 as well?

[uhn2000]

Originally Posted by ddmerino

I think some just do not get the point. In the U.S. it is hardly possible to go greater than 55MPH without the cops behind you. Unless you go to the tracks where a DCT would be desirable for fast shifting, most people driving a manual in the U.S. enjoy the involvement with the car's acceleration -- this is not some "macho" thing that some seem to insinuate is the reason -- albeit somewhat infantile as what Mr JBlack4083 refer to as "manhood complex". I have experienced driving friends' M3's with DCT on long/short drives and just did not enjoy the experience -- found it really boring. To each his own and to say that anybody has a manhood complex just because of this is rather telling of the person insinuating such. Again, it is "involvement in driving" experience that most manual enthusiasts are craving and not because they have a manhood complex.

1000% agree.. this is exactly why I am a big advocate of MT in all my rides!

[uhn2000]

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

I voted 6MT but intend on getting the M6 configured as such. I assume there will be a 6MT in the M6 as well?

It has not been confirmed but assuming it will happen for 2013 productions.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by ddmerino

I think some just do not get the point. In the U.S. it is hardly possible to go greater than 55MPH without the cops behind you. Unless you go to the tracks where a DCT would be desirable for fast shifting, most people driving a manual in the U.S. enjoy the involvement with the car's acceleration -- this is not some "macho" thing that some seem to insinuate is the reason -- albeit somewhat infantile as what Mr JBlack4083 refer to as "manhood complex". I have experienced driving friends' M3's with DCT on long/short drives and just did not enjoy the experience -- found it really boring. To each his own and to say that anybody has a manhood complex just because of this is rather telling of the person insinuating such. Again, it is "involvement in driving" experience that most manual enthusiasts are craving and not because they have a manhood complex.

I said there are people out there who are truly interested in the driving involvement and aren't necessarily looking for the newest tech or fastest speed. I am not speaking on those people. That is what you have failed to understand which is "rather telling" of you as well.

I said, even those that are concerned with the driving involvement that a MT provides, cannot deny that a lot of times when these debates come up theres always a few individuals who seem to write things insinuating that "Real Men" drive MT or that people who drive two pedal cars aren't real drivers or aren't as intelligent. There is a comment or two like that on the first two pages of this very thread. It's comments like that which make it seem like, TO SOME PEOPLE (keyword SOME), it's a manhood complex and not the desire for true driving involvement.

I originally said everything as courteous as can be and even stated that I wasn't speaking on ALL M/T enthusiasts as there are some who do not fall into this category. At the same time there are some that do, which is why i made the comments. For you to pass my comments off as "infantile" and say that they are "rather telling" of me is unnecessary as its obvious you did not read everything I wrote.

[Jblack4083]

I don't see why there would be any issues with a 6 speed in the M5 if Cadillac did it with the CTS-V which has 551 ft/lbs of torque...

[Mo_power]

its in Georgia?!?!?! i gotta find this car

[KG3356MT]

these silly transmission debates still go on smh. Buy what you want and enjoy.

[AlpWhite11]

Originally Posted by Mo_power

its in Georgia?!?!?! i gotta find this car

The original post says it's in California so don't go searching outside

MT is the way to go

[gds52]

MT always.
Why do they say few drivers want MT. I'm pretty sure more than many BMW enthusiasts drive MT.
No matter how fast DCT shifts, I want my car to shift when I WANT.

[berk]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

I don't see why there would be any issues with a 6 speed in the M5 if Cadillac did it with the CTS-V which has 551 ft/lbs of torque...

Cadillac use twin clutch trany which is rock solid system. I dont know why Bmw still use regular single clutch trany! Which is not really suitable for that much power

[///M1]

"...there is a small but very stable following of customers who simply insist on the manual..."

Yes, I am one of those few, call me a dying breed. The F10 M5 will strictly be a manual for me, in fact if it weren't offered in a manual I would pass altogether.

BTW, current poll shows nearly 40% take rate for the manual, if this holds true that is a serious split.

Originally Posted by Onurleft

This is actually incorrect, the E60 M5 was designed around the SMG and the 6 speed was an after thought, as it did come later in the production year.

Unlike the E60 M5, the F10 M5 has torque. So having an extra gear to utilize that high peak power/torque isn't (on the E60 and E92) isn't as effective on a car that has power and torque everywhere. In other words having much tighter gearing won't benefit the F10 as much as it did the E60 and E92.

Also, before disregarding the latter as "trash" MotorTrends fastest 1/4 mile test was achieved with the 6 speed E60 M5 (12.5@115) and the current world record for the E92 M3 in the 1/4 mile is held by a 6 speed car (12.3@114.9) despite them having an clear advantage from a rolling start

+1. The 6-spd manual was absolutely an afterthought in the case of the E60, and it is not a good example to relate to the F10 M5. Recall that:

1. Manual was offered in the 07 MY, a year after the US 06MY introduction as a result of 'pressure' from the BMW owner community. The F10 is from the get go.

2. Gearbox was straight from the 545i, total parts bin raid. I have heard BMW personnel claim the manual tranny on the M5 was developed from the ground up, and has more in common with a NASCAR car than a road BMW

3. The fiasco of the TC cannot be disabled on manual E60 M5s led to extremely negative press, and lawsuits in fact. This adversely affected the subsequent take rate of manuals. The TC 'fix' was 'addressed' with a software update later on for the 07 MY and of course subsequent MYs were not restricted, but the damage was already done.

4. The engine characteristics of the V10 in the E60 was clearly not well suited for a manual. The TQ monster F10 is a different story.

Originally Posted by berk

Yeah but it is still not the same feeling as european spec cars! Even though with removed cdv there is still restriction. if u drive the eu. Spec and us spec cars, u will understand what im talking about.
As a result i would choose dct in us!

I think some M cars also had CDVs in Europe. Modifying it (ie. simply tapping out the restrictor which takes a total of 3 secs and kindergarten level algebra knowledge, or equivalent ) solves any restriction there may be.

Originally Posted by s4awd

I had a GTR and it was crazy fast but I eventually got bored of clicking through the gears and sold it for a GT3RS which although much slower, I'm still head over heels for. As for the M5, just thinking about all that torque under my left foot is enough to get me back in a 6MT M car. My concern is BMW's lack of enthusiasm for the 6 MT on the M5. If they're going begrudgingly retrofit a 6MT, how good can it be? If their engineers had the same feeling about the joy of driving they had when developing the 1M then fine. Now I'm not too sure.

That's exactly what I fear will be the car of having a DCT/DSG/PDK/et all. Belonged to an exotic car club, drove a helluva lot of cars with these and as much as I enjoyed the cars for the day or two, each time I was happy to come back to my manual cars as I was missing them by the end of the day. This car won't be tracked nor dragged race, have other sharper tools for that in the instances I want, so who cares about 0.1 secs or whatever it may be.

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

I think it has more to do with enthusiasts. Not really US vs World. I watch all the shows/reviews from UK and Europe, the reviewers always say they would prefer a manual gearbox over the flappy paddles. Certain car enthusiasts enjoy being fully involved in the car.

Exactly. If folks recall one of the initial Car Magazine reviews (Chris Harris), he noted how much more turbo lag the M5 has relative to the X5-6 ///M, which of course he found surprising, and suggested in the manual M5 it won't be as pronounced, and IIRC perhaps the better option in his mind.

Originally Posted by ddmerino

I think some just do not get the point. In the U.S. it is hardly possible to go greater than 55MPH without the cops behind you. Unless you go to the tracks where a DCT would be desirable for fast shifting, most people driving a manual in the U.S. enjoy the involvement with the car's acceleration -- this is not some "macho" thing that some seem to insinuate is the reason -- albeit somewhat infantile as what Mr JBlack4083 refer to as "manhood complex". I have experienced driving friends' M3's with DCT on long/short drives and just did not enjoy the experience -- found it really boring. To each his own and to say that anybody has a manhood complex just because of this is rather telling of the person insinuating such. Again, it is "involvement in driving" experience that most manual enthusiasts are craving and not because they have a manhood complex.

AMEN!

[datbimmerdoe]

dct

[s62]

DCT for two, ok three, reasons:

1) Curb weight
2) Turbo lag
3) I have a manual M5

[JK479]

Originally Posted by JC919

The car was designed around the DCT, with the 6MT as an after thought to satisfy the American market. After a ton of research into the decision (and trust me, there are few more hardcore 6MT guys out there), I am going with the DCT as I fear spec'ing otherwise will compromise the car.

The e9x M3 was designed around both gearboxes, while like the e60 M5, the F10 was not. The e60 M5 with a manual was absolute shit and I don't really believe the F10 will be much better. If it was they would have offered the option to the rest of the world.

It pains me to say this as I've never even liked DCT in the M3, but after a lot of research into the issue, I've made my decision.

The M5 was designed with the manual in mind from day one this time. Unlike the e60, this F10 is differnt where as the manual was tested along side the DCT.

How would a 6 speed compromise the car? if you can drive it right, there should be no issues.

[JC919]

Originally Posted by jk3355

The M5 was designed with the manual in mind from day one this time. Unlike the e60, this F10 is differnt where as the manual was tested along side the DCT.

I would quite literally, love to see your proof of this!

[mr_yogi]

Originally Posted by Onurleft

This is actually incorrect, the E60 M5 was designed around the SMG and the 6 speed was an after thought, as it did come later in the production year.

Unlike the E60 M5, the F10 M5 has torque. So having an extra gear to utilize that high peak power/torque isn't (on the E60 and E92) isn't as effective on a car that has power and torque everywhere. In other words having much tighter gearing won't benefit the F10 as much as it did the E60 and E92.

Also, before disregarding the latter as "trash" MotorTrends fastest 1/4 mile test was achieved with the 6 speed E60 M5 (12.5@115) and the current world record for the E92 M3 in the 1/4 mile is held by a 6 speed car (12.3@114.9) despite them having an clear advantage from a rolling start

I don't think you read his post correctly. He said LIKE the e60 M5. Meaning he's saying the MT in the e60 WAS an afterthought