DCT vs MT

TLK · 07-02-2020, 05:31 PM

So tired of this us against them stuff. Look at the title even.

A lot of these replies sound like this is the only manual or DCT car they have ever had or have now. Grow up, you don't have to sign on for DCT forever or insist that only manual transmission is "true" driving.

Get what you want. Just keep in mind that there are far fewer MT of this car and that all versions of this now out of production car are getting older, more worn and possibly more abused. There is a smaller pool of low mileage MT to look through so I personally probably don't have the patience to wait for one. It took about 6 months just to find the 3.5 yro 16k miles DCT with color, options and CP that I wanted so I would expect longer wait for an MT.

chong0 · 07-06-2020, 01:40 PM

IMO every car feels different with MT vs DCT.

The MT vs DCT has been debated forever. Everyone says the DCT is well-matched to the car and the MT is not a right "fit". Of course that was posted by DCT owners.

I see no issue with the MT, and have always preferred MT cars. I have not upgraded to the F90 because of the AT and have no desire to get rid of the MT. Stop and go traffic makes it very difficult to be smooth, but that's the only gripe. I will likely be switching to a P-car once this car dies since the only option is an M3 and that car thus far looks hideous.

OP, you've had your share of MT cars. Go with what you want out of the new ride.

technician117 · 07-07-2020, 05:33 AM

The F10 6 speed does have a CDV. Simply remove it, reconnect the line and bleed it out. Someone posted about an assist spring on the clutch pedal as well which makes the travel feel less linear. I haven't yet looked into this. Also, as mentioned above, the Rogue SSK is really the only option for aftermarket shifters. This is a whole kit with new carrier as well. It's expensive but you don't have much choice and it does improve the throw.

I was thinking to make a 6MT upgrade DIY. Some day when I have time I'll remember to do it.

technician117 · 07-07-2020, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

How much HP can the 6 speed handle?

I think the best answer is that it can hold more power than the stock block can handle. Quoting an exact figure would be useless as everyone drives differently.

Logical · 07-07-2020, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technician117

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

How much HP can the 6 speed handle?

I think the best answer is that it can hold more power than the stock block can handle. Quoting an exact figure would be useless as everyone drives differently.

What is typical clutch life expectancy under normal (non track) driving conditions?

technician117 · 07-08-2020, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

What is typical clutch life expectancy under normal (non track) driving conditions?

I haven't heard of anyone needing to replace one yet, so it's hard to say. I'm sure it's just like any other manual car, depends on the driver... a lot. I routinely get over 100,000 miles from clutches. I've only put 15,000 miles on my F10 so far, the car has 75k. No sign of failure.

Marcus Frost · 07-10-2020, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technician117

I haven't heard of anyone needing to replace one yet, so it's hard to say. I'm sure it's just like any other manual car, depends on the driver... a lot. I routinely get over 100,000 miles from clutches. I've only put 15,000 miles on my F10 so far, the car has 75k. No sign of failure.

The nice thing about the 6MT in this car is that it's a common BMW transmission and very easy to service. Needing a clutch is nothing like needing a clutch in the DCT cars. I believe someone had one of the aftermarket clutch companies make a heavier duty clutch that was cheaper than an OEM replacement, but the company escapes me.

I've personally known people who've had their DCT worked on by very reputable shops and wound up selling the car because it was nothing but problems that turned into a nightmare. That's a completely different conversation but when it comes to longevity/durability/serviceability the 6MT has the DCT beaten in spades.

technician117 · 07-11-2020, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

The nice thing about the 6MT in this car is that it's a common BMW transmission and very easy to service. Needing a clutch is nothing like needing a clutch in the DCT cars. I believe someone had one of the aftermarket clutch companies make a heavier duty clutch that was cheaper than an OEM replacement, but the company escapes me.

I've personally known people who've had their DCT worked on by very reputable shops and wound up selling the car because it was nothing but problems that turned into a nightmare. That's a completely different conversation but when it comes to longevity/durability/serviceability the 6MT has the DCT beaten in spades.

Summed up as simplicity. I've heard the same stories. A friend of mine had a DCT car that BMW updated the software on during some service visit. After that, the trans never acted the same and always had an issue (if I remember correctly) not going into neutral for coasting down. Even after elevating to a PUMA case, etc. the problem was never fixed. He swears to this day to never buy another DCT F10. lol. Of course these things can be random and not necessarily a sign of ALL DCT's being problem childs. Just that it's possible to happen when it's not possible with a manual.

werdn · 07-11-2020, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabs1815

Ive driven both the 6MT and (currently) the DCT.

Most will say the car was built for the DCT and a 6MT feels unnatural in the F10. But my god does it change the entire driving dynamic of the car. Yes, in my opinion, the car is better suited with a DCT but the Manual experience in this car is amazing. Something about controlling that much power and being a part of it makes it awesome.

When I began my hunt for my current F10 I was exclusively looking for a 6MT. I test drove 3 different 6MT cars and each time it was a fantastic experience. I only ended up with a DCT out of laziness in the hunt and the actual daily driving of a 6MT if I'm being completely honest.

I daily drive my car in Brooklyn and sit in Staten Island expressway traffic daily and I wouldn't allow myself to get a 6MT strictly for that reason.

Does the car (DCT) roll on hill's like a regular manual, or is there a mode where, like a torque converter, it holds the car for you when you are on an incline.

TLK · 07-11-2020, 05:06 PM

Drive off assistant - The brake is held for 2 seconds before it releases and the car starts rolling backwards.

It's in the manual, and you can find PDFs online.

Sabs1815 · 07-13-2020, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werdn

Does the car (DCT) roll on hill's like a regular manual, or is there a mode where, like a torque converter, it holds the car for you when you are on an incline.

The car rolls on hills and responds exactly the way a manual would as if you were at a light with the car in neutral. There is a "safety" feature built in that if your on a steep enough incline the brake will hold the car for 3 seconds so you can transition to gas. I find at most stop lights I can sit with my foot off the brake. Only holding it on steep inclines or declines.

Alternatively, as long as your seat belt is on and the car is in drive or first gear. You can pull the parking brake up at a light and then when your ready to go just hit the gas and the brake will release on its own.

Chauncey.Bishop · 07-14-2020, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technician117

The F10 6 speed does have a CDV. Simply remove it, reconnect the line and bleed it out. Someone posted about an assist spring on the clutch pedal as well which makes the travel feel less linear. I haven't yet looked into this. Also, as mentioned above, the Rogue SSK is really the only option for aftermarket shifters. This is a whole kit with new carrier as well. It's expensive but you don't have much choice and it does improve the throw.

I was thinking to make a 6MT upgrade DIY. Some day when I have time I'll remember to do it.

Have you done the CDV? I've done a short shifter and it's made a world of difference!

spiff · 07-14-2020, 10:30 PM

I have a 6-Speed.

Wouldn't drive it any other way. Don't care if DCT is faster.

The car feels like so much more of an every day treat as a manual.

I've tracked it, dailied it, and road tripped it. Manual makes every maneuver extremely exciting.

I actually didn't know the car auto-blipped on downshifts (when I first bought it) on standard throttle mode- what a treat and surprise that was.

Makes for good fun exiting a freeway doing perfect 4 to 3 and 3 to 2 downshifts. In my opinion twice as rewarding for little effort than a fast DCT downshift.

This car is a fucking volcanic train on the track and driving it in manual is an incredible experience. Again, I don't care if DCT is faster. I'm not making money at my track days so I'd rather maximize the fun!

technician117 · 07-15-2020, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chauncey.Bishop

Have you done the CDV? I've done a short shifter and it's made a world of difference!

Yep. That's how I knew it had one and how to remove it. It definitely made a difference in shifting!

07-02-2020, 05:31 PM	#23
TLK First Lieutenant 112 Rep 385 Posts Drives: '14 M5 CP, '12 550i, '04 545i Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0)	So tired of this us against them stuff. Look at the title even. A lot of these replies sound like this is the only manual or DCT car they have ever had or have now. Grow up, you don't have to sign on for DCT forever or insist that only manual transmission is "true" driving. Get what you want. Just keep in mind that there are far fewer MT of this car and that all versions of this now out of production car are getting older, more worn and possibly more abused. There is a smaller pool of low mileage MT to look through so I personally probably don't have the patience to wait for one. It took about 6 months just to find the 3.5 yro 16k miles DCT with color, options and CP that I wanted so I would expect longer wait for an MT.
	Appreciate 1 Logical209.50 Quote

07-06-2020, 01:40 PM	#24
chong0 First Lieutenant 49 Rep 317 Posts Drives: '16 X5 5.0 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	IMO every car feels different with MT vs DCT. The MT vs DCT has been debated forever. Everyone says the DCT is well-matched to the car and the MT is not a right "fit". Of course that was posted by DCT owners. I see no issue with the MT, and have always preferred MT cars. I have not upgraded to the F90 because of the AT and have no desire to get rid of the MT. Stop and go traffic makes it very difficult to be smooth, but that's the only gripe. I will likely be switching to a P-car once this car dies since the only option is an M3 and that car thus far looks hideous. OP, you've had your share of MT cars. Go with what you want out of the new ride. __________________ '22 Macan GTS '21 911 C2S '20 Cayenne '16 X5 50i M-sport (3rd row!)
	Appreciate 2 Logical209.50 santamonica0070.00 Quote

07-07-2020, 05:33 AM	#25
technician117 Captain 251 Rep 606 Posts Drives: 2000 M5, 2001 M5, 2013 M5 6MT Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Buffalo iTrader: (1) Garage List 1990 BMW M5 [0.00] 2000 BMW M5 [0.00] 2013 BMW M5 [0.00]	The F10 6 speed does have a CDV. Simply remove it, reconnect the line and bleed it out. Someone posted about an assist spring on the clutch pedal as well which makes the travel feel less linear. I haven't yet looked into this. Also, as mentioned above, the Rogue SSK is really the only option for aftermarket shifters. This is a whole kit with new carrier as well. It's expensive but you don't have much choice and it does improve the throw. I was thinking to make a 6MT upgrade DIY. Some day when I have time I'll remember to do it.
	Appreciate 1 Logical209.50 Quote

07-11-2020, 05:06 PM	#32
TLK First Lieutenant 112 Rep 385 Posts Drives: '14 M5 CP, '12 550i, '04 545i Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0)	Drive off assistant - The brake is held for 2 seconds before it releases and the car starts rolling backwards. It's in the manual, and you can find PDFs online.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-14-2020, 10:30 PM	#35
spiff The Dr 71 Rep 169 Posts Drives: M20 Saloon, F800S Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Westlake Village, CA iTrader: (0)	I have a 6-Speed. Wouldn't drive it any other way. Don't care if DCT is faster. The car feels like so much more of an every day treat as a manual. I've tracked it, dailied it, and road tripped it. Manual makes every maneuver extremely exciting. I actually didn't know the car auto-blipped on downshifts (when I first bought it) on standard throttle mode- what a treat and surprise that was. Makes for good fun exiting a freeway doing perfect 4 to 3 and 3 to 2 downshifts. In my opinion twice as rewarding for little effort than a fast DCT downshift. This car is a fucking volcanic train on the track and driving it in manual is an incredible experience. Again, I don't care if DCT is faster. I'm not making money at my track days so I'd rather maximize the fun! __________________ 2013 M5 - Manual "You gotta fix the nut behind the wheel before you fix the bolts on the car"
	Appreciate 1 Logical209.50 Quote