Dyno Tested: New RK Autowerks CF Cold Air Intakes

[m6beast]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

How do you deal with the water then? during the rainy months?

The MSR intake filters are made of 304ss mesh material specifically used for this reason to hold up to Any weather or climate for the years to come with no deterioration as a cloth filter would. Also the MSR intake comes with a prefilter for those who want more filteration of smaller dust particles as small as .005 while also being water repellent for those who have these concerns.

Ive been using this intake style and design of compressed air from my very first e36 m3, e39 m5 and e63 m6 and been proven through the years with my older beast at 140,000 miles on tack with no issues. I a guarantee the cloth filter with time you will have filteration issues as well as cloth material coming apart through time.

Everything on the MSR intake was chosen and designed for the best flow possible while making the most power and holding up through the years.

[m6beast]

Here's a video of my M4 with before and after MSR intake showing real life gains on the street after adaptation. This is as real as it gets.

[MSIXCARBON]

No where did I say MSR doesn't have any gains. In fact, in my initial post I didn't even mention anyone else's intake. I just shared my experience with the RK Intakes.

0.005 is 125 micron, household dust is on the scale of 10 to 100 micron, so you mean the best case scenario, your filters never filter…so they aren’t filters unless the prefilters are on?

Studies have shown engine wear happens with particles that are 10-20 microns. K&N filtration is done using ISO 5011 test procedure and filter 99% of the particles below 120 micron. MSR filters don’t filter 99% of the dust.

[m6beast]

Originally Posted by MSIXCARBON

No where did I say MSR doesn't have any gains. In fact, in my initial post I didn't even mention anyone else's intake. I just shared my experience with the RK Intakes.

0.005 is 125 micron, household dust is on the scale of 10 to 100 micron, so you mean the best case scenario, your filters never filter…so they aren’t filters unless the prefilters are on?

Studies have shown engine wear happens with particles that are 10-20 microns. K&N filtration is done using ISO 5011 test procedure and filter 99% of the particles below 120 micron. MSR filters don’t filter 99% of the dust.

No you didn't but you claim to know so moh about MSR and misinformation you seem to bring up. Also for someone who just installed a RK intake you seem to know a lot of the product and details are you the builder? I guess anything to sell a product. Since your intake is so much better in every way I suggest line it up with and MSR equipped car I'm sure you'll find someone to race and for all I know you probably have an MSR intake at the shop. Don't get me wrong I feel honored that MSR is used for the bar in comparisons. Just a thought

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by MSIXCARBON

No where did I say MSR doesn't have any gains. In fact, in my initial post I didn't even mention anyone else's intake. I just shared my experience with the RK Intakes.

0.005 is 125 micron, household dust is on the scale of 10 to 100 micron, so you mean the best case scenario, your filters never filter…so they aren’t filters unless the prefilters are on?

Studies have shown engine wear happens with particles that are 10-20 microns. K&N filtration is done using ISO 5011 test procedure and filter 99% of the particles below 120 micron. MSR filters don’t filter 99% of the dust.

If you had such a great experience and you're intentions were purely to share that, why are you still here trying to start another RK Vs MSR thread. RK did that and failed at it. Not sure why we are doing this again. Just looks odd that your first thread is about RK intakes and you're also the shop owner. Sounds like another desperate attempt by RK n

If RK runs as good as it looks, let the data speak for itself, and it will sell. Trust me. We all know it's beautiful, let's see how it performs on the street.

MSR has been around and has already proven it's product over and over. Not sure sitting here and arguing and trying to disprove things is going to change their success or help RKs.

[MSIXCARBON]

Originally Posted by m6beast

No you didn't but you claim to know so moh about MSR and misinformation you seem to bring up. Also for someone who just installed a RK intake you seem to know a lot of the product and details are you the builder? I guess anything to sell a product. Since your intake is so much better in every way I suggest line it up with and MSR equipped car I'm sure you'll find someone to race and for all I know you probably have an MSR intake at the shop. Don't get me wrong I feel honored that MSR is used for the bar in comparisons. Just a thought

Trust me, I am not RK or have any affiliation with them.

That's fine by me. I'll tell you what. I'll buy your intake at full price and do a head to head on a dyno. I can invite you to come as well. If they make more power than RK I'll keep them. If they don't, you can buy them back.

[MileHighM5]

I still have no idea why anyone would pay $3k for intakes. Throw in some drop-ins, downpipes, and a flash for a little more than the price of intakes. I'd love to know how much it costs these companies to have a set of intakes manufactured.

[m6beast]

Originally Posted by MSIXCARBON

Trust me, I am not RK or have any affiliation with them.

That's fine by me. I'll tell you what. I'll buy your intake at full price and do a head to head on a dyno. I can invite you to come as well. If they make more power than RK I'll keep them. If they don't, you can buy them back.

I want a street race, Dyno isn't gonna show the true MSR gains as I said before proven by vbox, track and race. As for buying MSR intake I don't need a customer that doesn't believe in myself or my product for I have several that are more then satisfied with its sound, performance and most of all customer service. Three years and several customers I'm ok, I suggest you find someone That has MSR and race him it's that simple.

[MSIXCARBON]

You're accusing me of being owner and just having bought the product. Why do either of those matter? I met the owner and he installed the intakes himself for me. He EDUCATED me how they work, showed me test results, gave me copies of them, explained everything above and beyond.

On the other hand when I ask you questions and question your decision making you can't validate it with anything beyond "I did this" or "watch this video."

Riddle me with engineering, fundamentals, and controlled testing, educate us WHY it's better, not say "I tested this, look watch this video." There are so many variables in those races.

You have a chance to explain your "compressed air design" along with your product and you keep passing it. Seems like I'm the first one who's questioned your product.

The owner of RK did that for me which is why I purchased his product.

[apexlocator]

fellas, both intakes make power. The difference is probably a few ponies, not a reason to continue the back and forth (although I believe m6beast has a right to defend his product when its mentioned). I myself picked up a used RK system and will try it out. Am I gonna test every combination of intake setup on a dyno?...no. Just going to install it, feel the difference, and remind myself not to buy stuff anymore when I'm bored at work.

I generally dont believe in aftermarket intakes, but thats coming from modding just NA motors in the past. 30+whp from an intake definitely caught my interest....

[MSIXCARBON]

Originally Posted by m6beast

I want a street race, Dyno isn't gonna show the true MSR gains as I said before proven by vbox, track and race. As for buying MSR intake I don't need a customer that doesn't believe in myself or my product for I have several that are more then satisfied with its sound, performance and most of all customer service. Three years and several customers I'm ok, I suggest you find someone That has MSR and race him it's that simple.

If you want to street race, I run RK you run msr, then you run RK and I run msr, then we flip cars and run with the flipped setup.

I'm putting it all out there for you

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

fellas, both intakes make power. The difference is probably a few ponies, not a reason to continue the back and forth (although I believe m6beast has a right to defend his product when its mentioned). I myself picked up a used RK system and will try it out. Am I gonna test every combination of intake setup on a dyno?...no. Just going to install it, feel the difference, and remind myself not to buy stuff anymore when I'm bored at work.

I generally dont believe in aftermarket intakes, but thats coming from modding just NA motors in the past. 30+whp from an intake definitely caught my interest....

Can't wait to see it installed! I'm sure you'll enjoy them as much as I enjoy my MSR setup. Both beautiful products.

Let us know how you like it and please share your experience

[m6beast]

It's funny you say I don't give data, what more do you want then from real live gains vbox track and race before and after those numbers don't lie. I send all this data to those interested in the intake. I think youre confused, I'm not the one here trying to sell an intake I just defended on misinformation that you spoke of about my product and letting the members know the truth. My products sell for a reason, believe me if they didn't perform as claimed they wouldn't be selling three + years later. So cheers and hope you enjoy your intake

[DCT OFF]

Originally Posted by MSIXCARBON

Hold on I’m confused now, if everything was done for a reason, then why would you reduce the pipe from 3.5 to 3.25? The OEM inlet is 3.5. That doesn’t add up to me, I also recall reading when you were “developing” these intakes that you had Maf codes. You can see the RK section is an exact replica of the OEM maf section, down to the curvature.

Do you have flow bench numbers for your intakes? RK Autowerks has provided flow bench numbers for their product, OEM, charcoal, and your product. That is not calculated data, that is real life testing. We can debate your track numbers all day. But going to the track one day, then 2 weeks later, doesn’t mean anything. Your intake temps changing are more significant than the intakes at that point. Don’t get me wrong, nobody is doubting your intakes make power, but how much is the question here. I feel the guys at RK being aerospace engineers might know a thing or too. I spoke to the owner and he has heavy experience in the automotive industry working for the OEMs.

You yourself must know that the car does not need 2 weeks to adapt, that is unreasonable. Even then, intakes do not effect anything in terms of “adaptations.” Intakes are simply a restriction on the system which the car has to endure as the RK owner explained in his engineering paper.

You should be able to put the intakes on the car and instantly see power. This is proven and the engineering backs it up. I saw this on the dyno myself, I did not need 2 weeks of driving around.

Sounds like the guys at RK made a product that looks good on paper, calculated numbers, validated numbers via CFD, validated numbers via flow benching, validated via dyno testing; resulting in a great product. I understand you have track times, but you can’t argue that a flow bench does not hold more value when developing intakes. You eliminate all the variables, temperature, humidity, the entire vehicle engine, and so on. If the argument was for a naturally aspirated car, I can understand that. But this is a turbo vehicle where reducing restriction is the name of the game.

was the guy with the MSR intake that knocked off .5 seconds off the quarter mile time almost two years ago,prior to installing the intake I was running an average of 12.0@120mph constantly,George installed the intake and told me it would need a couple weeks to get fully adapted because of the compressed air,I was so excited because I could hear the turbo spool and feel a difference in performance the day I left his shop,I couldn't wait for the two weeks so I went to the track in less than a week and ran a 11.7 @121mph and went back the following week when the car was fully adapt and ran 11.5/11.6 @124/125 mph,so I'm a true believer that the MSR intake do need some time to adapt.

[MSIXCARBON]

Can someone please explain to me about this compressed air theory?

[Msizzle]

can someone explain the compressed air theory to me, from what i understand even in a NA car the natural vacuum sucks way harder than ever a direct headwind with open tubes can blow. To produce even 1 psi of boost with just an open tube the car would have to go well over 100mph. Now in a turbo car the air is already being compressed so i don't see how anytime of ram air or headwind can help. I understand the fact that its more free flowing but i don't get the ram air affect.

[MSIXCARBON]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

can someone explain the compressed air theory to me, from what i understand even in a NA car the natural vacuum sucks way harder than ever a direct headwind with open tubes can blow. To produce even 1 psi of boost with just an open tube the car would have to go well over 100mph. Now in a turbo car the air is already being compressed so i don't see how anytime of ram air or headwind can help. I understand the fact that its more free flowing but i don't get the ram air affect.

Bingo

[m6beast]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

can someone explain the compressed air theory to me, from what i understand even in a NA car the natural vacuum sucks way harder than ever a direct headwind with open tubes can blow. To produce even 1 psi of boost with just an open tube the car would have to go well over 100mph. Now in a turbo car the air is already being compressed so i don't see how anytime of ram air or headwind can help. I understand the fact that its more free flowing but i don't get the ram air affect.

Its very simple, as you increase mph so does volume and velocity of air. Just because it's a turbo engine doesn't mean you can't compress the air. The MSR design gives the turbos a helping hand especially in the upper rpm. The RK rely on being more effiecient compared to the stock intake, where as the MSR velocity stack and setup compresses the air giving overall efficiency and more volume of air by mph increase. The rk just are less restrictive then oem and doesn't matter if you're going 30 mph or 100 mph the design is just free flowing no different then a Gruppe M except that filters are in front instead of the engine bay..

The MSR intake will give a cel in the upper gears if not adapted slowly "too much air codes and even missfire codes" this happens if you just go out and start beating on it without adapting it properly especially if running higher boost targets or piggy back setups.

I've had customers that adapted 3rd and 4th gears for months and never ever have a cel of "too much air codes" and hardly run into 5th gear. But next thing you know they'll run a 1/2 mile event and all Of a sudden they get a cel too much air codes or missfire codes. Then after a couple of runs no more codes. Just ask the guys who have the MSR intake they will give you the reality of adaptation and the compressed air for they have experienced for themselves. It's not to hard to understand.

[ur20v]

This is a non-sensical pissing match and there will be nothing to learn from it. To many vested interests.

Spend your money as you want... its yours.

I am sure M6beast has made a great product and his patrons are obviously happy.

I have had dealings with RK especially Jamie and can vouche for their knowledge, engineering and products I purchased.

Will I buy RK's or MSR's intakes - no, personal reasons so don't need to go into it here.

There are no patents, laws or business relationshipd broken as far as I can see so don't understand this short of positioning in a thread and to be honest when any vendor/manufacture jumps in on the defensive in others threads it NEVER looks good even if they are in the right!

[allmotor_2000]

Please do some verified 60-130 or 1/4 mile times - dyno and forum talk is all BS

[edysinger]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

Please do some verified 60-130 or 1/4 mile times - dyno and forum talk is all BS

Exactly. This is all just marketing BS going on until someone produces a quantified comparison.

[apexlocator]

Trying to install now. How do you remove the intake plastic tubing that makes a 90 deg bend into the grill area?