M6 is gone... King is here :D

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

Follow-up question:
Did you personally notice and feel the difference between the redline of these two cars?
GT3 = 9,000 RPM
GT3RS = 8,800 RPM

*due to minor differences in the bore and stroke*

I can't tell the difference it's so fast, and really at that speed you're focusing on the road ahead of you. The motor is screaming and it's intoxicating nothing like a high strung NA motor.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Vic55

from what ive read on the benz boards, the coupe is more lively and tossable and apparently just better overall in driveability. There are few owners who had the sedan and then bumped to the coupe so it could be their pride talking or the placebo effect.

I too drove the sedan and was underwhelmed in the throttle response/tranny shifting and chassis flex.

+1

To be honest with you I had no intention to get the C63 coupe because I was looking for Manual Transmission this time. I love the MDCT and believe it's the fastest Dual Clutch in the market but for the last 3 years was thinking what if my M6 had manual transmission and that's why decided to get manual KING . I test drove the C63s sedan months ago to see how the new engine feels and how the transmission acts. Just because of curiosity

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

+1

To be honest with you I had no intention to get the C63 coupe because I was looking for Manual Transmission this time. I love the MDCT and believe it's the fastest Dual Clutch in the market but for the last 3 years was thinking what if my M6 had manual transmission and that's why decided to get manual KING . I test drove the C63s sedan months ago to see how the new engine feels and how the transmission acts. Just because of curiosity

The C63s Coupe and M6 Coupe are actually very similar, and I'd argue in more ways than the C63s and M4. The V8 is just the start, just about everything is similar.

M6 vs C63s Coupe

Wheelbase 2851mm vs 2840mm
Front Track 1631mm vs 1636mm
Rear Track 1612mm vs 1592mm
Weight 1894kg vs 1799kg (From Auto Motor und Sport)

The big negative for the C63s is the transmission and obviously the M6 is more expensive by 40% or so depending on the country.

I'd love to see a comparative test between the two cars, every time I read the C63s Coupe is more power and heavier than the M4 with a bigger focus on luxury I'm always thinking to myself they should compare it with an M6

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

The C63s Coupe and M6 Coupe are actually very similar, and I'd argue in more ways than the C63s and M4. The V8 is just the start, just about everything is similar.

M6 vs C63s Coupe

Wheelbase 2851mm vs 2840mm
Front Track 1631mm vs 1636mm
Rear Track 1612mm vs 1592mm
Weight 1894kg vs 1799kg (From Auto Motor und Sport)

The big negative for the C63s is the transmission and obviously the M6 is more expensive by 40% or so depending on the country.

I'd love to see a comparative test between the two cars, every time I read the C63s Coupe is more power and heavier than the M4 with a bigger focus on luxury I'm always thinking to myself they should compare it with an M6

Well I disagree with you. They just have similar wheelbase and front track and the type of engine (V8 turbo engine) but there are many differences. Even the rear track has 20 mm difference which is a lot. Comparing 194" with 187" we figure out M6 is 7" (almost 178 mm) longer beside about 1" (25 mm) less height.
M6 Coupe is over 200 lb heavier (as you mentioned) with a lot more power (it's proven the underrated S63tu is generating over 600 HP at crank) and 10% bigger engine (4.4 L vs 4.0 L). Even the torque on wheels of M6 is a lot more than C63s Coupe due to gear and FD ratios . No need to say the quality of interior material as well as CF roof on M6 make a huge difference...
And I don't want to go through the mechanical side to compare the M active differential with MB differential or fully aluminum sub-frame and suspension of M6 with the steel one in C63s Coupe...

Edit: I just looked at the MB website and figured out C63s Coupe has 73.6" overall width which is about 1.2" (30 mm) narrower than M6 Coupe (74.8" width) ...

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Well I disagree with you. They just have similar wheelbase and front track and the type of engine (V8 turbo engine) but there are many differences. Even the rear track has 20 mm difference which is a lot. Comparing 194" with 187" we figure out M6 is 7" (almost 178 mm) longer beside about 1" (25 mm) less height.
M6 Coupe is over 200 lb heavier (as you mentioned) with a lot more power (it's proven the underrated S63tu is generating over 600 HP at crank) and 10% bigger engine (4.4 L vs 4.0 L). Even the torque on wheels of M6 is a lot more than C63s Coupe due to gear and FD ratios . No need to say the quality of interior material as well as CF roof on M6 make a huge difference...
And I don't want to go through the mechanical side to compare the M active differential with MB differential or fully aluminum sub-frame and suspension of M6 with the steel one in C63s Coupe...

Edit: I just looked at the MB website and figured out C63s Coupe has 73.6" overall width which is about 1.2" (30 mm) narrower than M6 Coupe (74.8" width) ...

Granted they are different and overall the C63s Coupe is smaller and lighter than the M6, but the M4 with a DCT is around 1615kg, the gap between it and the C63s Coupe is bigger than the gap between it and the M6 I think.

The wheelbase on the M4 is 2812mm, so again the gap is bigger there too, but the rear track is actually wider than on the C63s, which is interesting - 1603mm putting it bang in between the two V8s. The big rear guards on the M4 obviously do serve a purpose. The front front track of the M4 is relatively narrow, only 1579mm, a huge difference compared to the other two cars.

I still think a comparison between the C63s and M6 would be interesting.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

Granted they are different and overall the C63s Coupe is smaller and lighter than the M4, but the M4 with a DCT is around 1615kg, the gap between it and the C63s Coupe is bigger than the gap between it and the M6 I think.

The wheelbase on the M4 is 2812mm, so again the gap is bigger there too, but the rear track is actually wider than on the C63s, which is interesting - 1603mm putting it bang in between the two V8s. The big rear guards on the M4 obviously do serve a purpose. The front front track of the M4 is relatively narrow, only 1579mm, a huge difference compared to the other two cars.

I still think a comparison between the C63s and M6 would be interesting.

confused here- you are saying the C63s Coupe is lighter than the M4? Because it most definitely is not. In your previous post you even quoted a magazine saying the Benz is about 1799kg and above you state the M4 is 1615kg.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

Granted they are different and overall the C63s Coupe is smaller and lighter than the M4, but the M4 with a DCT is around 1615kg, the gap between it and the C63s Coupe is bigger than the gap between it and the M6 I think.

The wheelbase on the M4 is 2812mm, so again the gap is bigger there too, but the rear track is actually wider than on the C63s, which is interesting - 1603mm putting it bang in between the two V8s. The big rear guards on the M4 obviously do serve a purpose. The front front track of the M4 is relatively narrow, only 1579mm, a huge difference compared to the other two cars.

I still think a comparison between the C63s and M6 would be interesting.

Not sure why you go with wheelbase. I believe the right comparison beside the class of car (C class vs 3/4 class) is the size of car. 6 series is the competitor of MB CLS or Audi A7 (S7/RS7)...but seriously why C63 Coupe is about 200 lb heavier than his brother C63 Sedan?... and the interesting thing is that despite heavier weight it's still 0.1 second quicker (in term of 0-60) than sedan according to MBUSA... if this is the correct information, then it says a lot about traction issue which is predictable due to 500+ lb-ft

These are the dimensions for 3 coupe cars:
Car......: M4 CP, C63s, M6
Length : 184.6 , 187, 192.8
width: 74 , 73.6, 74.8
Height: 54.4 , 55.1, 54.1
Front track : 62.2, 64.4,64.2
Rear track: 63.1, 62.6, 63.5
wheelbase: 110.7, 111.8, 112.2
Price: 75k(DCT), 75k, 113k
0-60: 3.8, 3.9,3.7 (I got 3.6 with Nitto NT05 tires on my M6 BTW )

[clar]

Originally Posted by Vic55

confused here- you are saying the C63s Coupe is lighter than the M4? Because it most definitely is not. In your previous post you even quoted a magazine saying the Benz is about 1799kg and above you state the M4 is 1615kg.

I think he meant the C63s Coupe is lighter than the M6. It would be a very cold day in hell before a Merc is lighter than a comparative model from BMW

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by clar

I think he meant the C63s Coupe is lighter than the M6. It would be a very cold day in hell before a Merc is lighter than a comparative model from BMW

And one with less torque

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by Vic55

confused here- you are saying the C63s Coupe is lighter than the M4? Because it most definitely is not. In your previous post you even quoted a magazine saying the Benz is about 1799kg and above you state the M4 is 1615kg.

Sorry, I meant M6 at the start of that post. I'll edit now so it makes more sense

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Not sure why you go with wheelbase. I believe the right comparison beside the class of car (C class vs 3/4 class) is the size of car. 6 series is the competitor of MB CLS or Audi A7 (S7/RS7)...but seriously why C63 Coupe is about 200 lb heavier than his brother C63 Sedan?... and the interesting thing is that despite heavier weight it's still 0.1 second quicker (in term of 0-60) than sedan according to MBUSA... if this is the correct information, then it says a lot about traction issue which is predictable due to 500+ lb-ft

These are the dimensions for 3 coupe cars:
Car......: M4 CP, C63s, M6
Length : 184.6 , 187, 192.8
width: 74 , 73.6, 74.8
Height: 54.4 , 55.1, 54.1
Front track : 62.2, 64.4,64.2
Rear track: 63.1, 62.6, 63.5
wheelbase: 110.7, 111.8, 112.2
Price: 75k(DCT), 75k, 113k
0-60: 3.8, 3.9,3.7 (I got 3.6 with Nitto NT05 tires on my M6 BTW )

Agreed the M6 is in the next size of car up from the C63s Coupe but the interior room will be similar for 4 people. Also the M6 has a 4.3" longer nose than the M5 for no real reason other than style, it could easily be a 188.5" long car. I think that overall the C63s Coupe will still be closer in feel to an M6 in regards to the interior and engine than it is to an M4.

I know that at least some of the weight difference is from the wider body work and unique rear axle on the C63s Coupe, but on the 'normal' 4 and 6 cylinder cars the Coupe seems to be around 100lbs heavier than the Sedan which I agree seems strange.

[m5sdse63]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Was the RS PTS? If not 300k is crazy prior to me landing my RS I saw the same spec asking 300k and one for 280k, and I got the same car sub 230k. I had some patience paid a little over but I can sell for more than what I paid all good.

Turbo S is baddass, but depreciates like a MAC well not that bad. You can get a Turbo S 2016 for 50k off MSRP, and a 2017 about 25k off.

Not sure about the RS. Looks like it must have sold already.

The GT4 they are selling is pre-owned and over MSRP too.

https://neworleans.porschedealer.com...etallic+932753

Which dealer is selling the 2017 Turbo S for 25k off?? I've been reading the 6speed forums and the discounts on the Turbo/Turbo S are stingy.

[Bimmer6]

If you have purchased a couple of cars from your dealer they will sell a 200k MSRP for 175k 180k

[M6-Coupe]

^^^^ Well only in America

[Vic55]

So I drove the C63S Coupe; its a much much better driver than the sedan. I really think Benz figured out the TCU issues and is maximizing the MCT finally. While its not as fluid as the DCT it is much intuitive than before and the shift speeds are ZF like. It really remined me a lot of the Drive mode in Sport + in my GTS. I have said before that the GTS has the best Drive mode I've owned of any car. It down shifts as you slow and holds the gears strong as you run up the rpm range(s). The Coupe had the mirroring feel albeit with the MCT vs the DCT of the GTS (Getrag). For me, owing 5 MCT's in the past, this was welcomed feel and I was impressed.

Some other notes:

Traction on this car with 516 lb/ft was impressive from a dig vs my tuned M4 and it felt just a tick slower than the tuned M4. A tuned 63 will walk the tuned M4. I liked the steering; it felt much like my GTS which is very pinpoint and limited understeer. Brakes were crisp with no fade even after I pushed the car (The GM is my friend and let me take it solo LOL). The car is heavy though and you can feel the weight in higher speed bends. This probably was also heavily affected by the Sport Seats vs the Performance ones (less side bolstering). I liked the interior. Again it mirrored my GTS with MFD being the same and the tablet style screen. The seats, although super tight, were very comfortable. The HUD is good and the engine noise is to die for- yet again very much like the GTS but not as loud at stock or under load.

Overall I liked it and its very GT like; it could be a good daily driver if I ever walk from the M4. I found the looks be attractive with the aggressive fenders and OEM black wheels mated against the red calipers. A simple tune will yield over 80 whp and 100 tq which puts the car in different category.

Some quick snaps when I took it to the bank

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Vic55

So I drove the C63S Coupe; its a much much better driver than the sedan. I really think Benz figured out the TCU issues and is maximizing the MCT finally. While its not as fluid as the DCT it is much intuitive than before and the shift speeds are ZF like. It really remined me a lot of the Drive mode in Sport + in my GTS. I have said before that the GTS has the best Drive mode I've owned of any car. It down shifts as you slow and holds the gears strong as you run up the rpm range(s). The Coupe had the mirroring feel albeit with the MCT vs the DCT of the GTS (Getrag). For me, owing 5 MCT's in the past, this was welcomed feel and I was impressed.

Some other notes:

Traction on this car with 516 lb/ft was impressive from a dig vs my tuned M4 and it felt just a tick slower than the tuned M4. A tuned 63 will walk the tuned M4. I liked the steering; it felt much like my GTS which is very pinpoint and limited understeer. Brakes were crisp with no fade even after I pushed the car (The GM is my friend and let me take it solo LOL). The car is heavy though and you can feel the weight in higher speed bends. This probably was also heavily affected by the Sport Seats vs the Performance ones (less side bolstering). I liked the interior. Again it mirrored my GTS with MFD being the same and the tablet style screen. The seats, although super tight, were very comfortable. The HUD is good and the engine noise is to die for- yet again very much like the GTS but not as loud at stock or under load.

Overall I liked it and its very GT like; it could be a good daily driver if I ever walk from the M4. I found the looks be attractive with the aggressive fenders and OEM black wheels mated against the red calipers. A simple tune will yield over 80 whp and 100 tq which puts the car in different category.

Some quick snaps when I took it to the bank

Nice write up. Although MB is not a right fit for me, but this car has beautiful rear end. I agree it must have impressive launch since it's heavy enough to minimize the wheel spinning and as you said you can feel the weight at higher speed... looks like this car is slower on track compare to M4 CP tested by ignition TV as I watched a video posted on the M3/M4 forum ... Those guys have complained about the weight too (200 kg heavier) but they loved the car overall.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Nice write up. Although MB is not a right fit for me, but this car has beautiful rear end. I agree it must have impressive launch since it's heavy enough to minimize the wheel spinning and as you said you can feel the weight at higher speed... looks like this car is slower on track compare to M4 CP tested by ignition TV as I watched a video posted on the M3/M4 forum ... Those guys have complained about the weight too (200 kg heavier) but they loved the car overall.

Agree, I can see the weight holding down the car on the track as it didn't feel as "nimble" as my M4.



Edit:

If this is the Ignition that you saw, this is the C63 (Non S) which is slower. But they didn't seem to think it would have mattered.

http://www.ignitionlive.co.za/shouto...amg-c63-coupe/

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Agree, I can see the weight holding down the car on the track as it didn't feel as "nimble" as my M4.



Edit:

If this is the Ignition that you saw, this is the C63 (Non S) which is slower. But they didn't seem to think it would have mattered.

http://www.ignitionlive.co.za/shouto...amg-c63-coupe/

Yes I was talking about that one and you are right it's non S (I hadn't paid attention). The S model must be a little bit faster due to 34 more HP and if I'm not mistaken, S model has the advantage of better differential and probably sportier suspension. From the dig is 0.1 second faster but for sure on the track must be significant faster; however you an I are not looking for race tracking these cars

[brad850csi]

Now C63s Coupe vs M6 CP vs M4 CP, what are your thoughts Vic?

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

Now C63s Coupe vs M6 CP vs M4 CP, what are your thoughts Vic?

Now it's an easy question for Vic but we can guess the answers...
The luxerious and interior quality: M6
The enjoyment of fast shifting and precise transmission: DCT
The most powerful and torquy / fastest one on straight line: M6
The most fun to drive and handling: M4
The highway cruiser: M6
The most comfortable seats: M6
The most sporty seats: M4
The biggest one: M6
The smallest one: M4
The sound : C63
The steering wheel? well I like BMW but Vic will vote for MB

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Now it's an easy question for Vic but we can guess the answers...
The luxerious and interior quality: M6
The enjoyment of fast shifting and precise transmission: DCT
The most powerful and torquy / fastest one on straight line: M6
The most fun to drive and handling: M4
The highway cruiser: M6
The most comfortable seats: M6
The most sporty seats: M4
The biggest one: M6
The smallest one: M4
The sound : C63
The steering wheel? well I like BMW but Vic will vote for MB

LOL because you picked things that clearly will go towards BMW.

Interior: toss up between the M6 and the C63 (M4 is very plastic in feel)
Transmission: DCT
Fastest in straight line: M6 but you will be shocked at the C63 in stock set up. The M4 is behind (non tuned)
Highway cruiser: M6 is the most GT of the three
Comfortable Seats: hummm M6 maybe a tad over the C63 Sport Seats (not Performance seats). The C63 had very good cushy seats believe it or not
Sporty Seats: M4 cause I have the Comp Pack but the C63 Performance Seats are on par if not better
Sound: no brainer C63
Steering wheel: I like flat bottoms But I like format of the buttons better in the BMW.

Lets expand (short experience with the C63S Coupe and my opinion of course but lets face it I have had 8 M's and 9 AMG's so one can accuse me of being a fanboy of just one):

Steering feel: C63 is better than the M4 and M6--- much more precise and less understeer in heavy turns; very AMG GTS like
Suspension: The BMW shocks are better- less bouncy and more compliant over undulations- I feel less roll = weight
Acceleration: if for pinks, Id rather have the C63S on a regular street no premeditation. It has the better differential.
Drive mode: The C63 downshifts as you expect and holds gears better up top. Its the better mode in traffic.
Weight and chassis: The M4 is the best of the lot and of course its due to weight.
Interior: I liked the C63 as it reminded me almost exactly of my GTS and the M6 is very luxurious. The M4 is more basic to me.

Overall: all great cars that serve different needs. You can't go wrong with any (price not dependant). The M4 is more raw while the C63S Coupe is more of a hybrid blend of the M4 and M6. Its just a little too heavy to be considered a true track car IMHO but it will rip on the highways. I sure ripped it when I had for part of the day and was impressed.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Vic55

LOL because you picked things that clearly will go towards BMW.

Interior: toss up between the M6 and the C63 (M4 is very plastic in feel)
Transmission: DCT
Fastest in straight line: M6 but you will be shocked at the C63 in stock set up. The M4 is behind (non tuned)
Highway cruiser: M6 is the most GT of the three
Comfortable Seats: hummm M6 maybe a tad over the C63 Sport Seats (not Performance seats). The C63 had very good cushy seats believe it or not
Sporty Seats: M4 cause I have the Comp Pack but the C63 Performance Seats are on par if not better
Sound: no brainer C63
Steering wheel: I like flat bottoms But I like format of the buttons better in the BMW.

Lets expand (short experience with the C63S Coupe and my opinion of course but lets face it I have had 8 M's and 9 AMG's so one can accuse me of being a fanboy of just one):

Steering feel: C63 is better than the M4 and M6--- much more precise and less understeer in heavy turns; very AMG GTS like
Suspension: The BMW shocks are better- less bouncy and more compliant over undulations- I feel less roll = weight
Acceleration: if for pinks, Id rather have the C63S on a regular street no premeditation. It has the better differential.
Drive mode: The C63 downshifts as you expect and holds gears better up top. Its the better mode in traffic.
Weight and chassis: The M4 is the best of the lot and of course its due to weight.
Interior: I liked the C63 as it reminded me almost exactly of my GTS and the M6 is very luxurious. The M4 is more basic to me.

Overall: all great cars that serve different needs. You can't go wrong with any (price not dependant). The M4 is more raw while the C63S Coupe is more of a hybrid blend of the M4 and M6. Its just a little too heavy to be considered a true track car IMHO but it will rip on the highways. I sure ripped it when I had for part of the day and was impressed.

Well I was +90% right about your answers LOL