Vic55 and I drove the F80 M3. Pulls like a French Choo Choo Train.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Coldlist, please don't say anything against M3/M4.... you know those guys! they are on the way kill us

lol! Not me. Frankly, I couldn't care less about either of them. Would not move from an M5/6 to the little sister.

[Careful Driver]

Originally Posted by UAM951

Very interesting review. The M3 interior is different from the F10 platform but for some reason the seats to me seem better less bulky. The suspension needs work and with a tune and some goodies it should be a good car. The weight difference is there. I have driven 2014 M5 CP that my cousin had and its great. It does feel heavier and interior seems to be almost the same or a little better to me. The exhaust is somewhat of surprise. Stock exhaust sounds good to me. I am enjoying my F80. Just waiting to see what tuner mods will come out for this car.

I could spend 5 minutes with you and you'll be shocked how inferior the M3 interior is compared to the M5. From A/C vents to, A/C buttons, power/EDC/steering buttons, headliners, doors, everything is cheaply made in M3. Even the plastic used where its used is worse kind of plastic. The only thing both cars have in common is the type of leather they use, which is merino. The headrests on the seats dont move, including the ones at the back (BAD for people with car seats that need tether), no arm rest at the back, and so on.

A lot of money for a car like this. Honestly, if I were shopping for a track/weekend car as a second car, I'd never buy this car. Z06/Z07 is so much better or a used Porsche. If I must have 1 car, I'd get the M5. If I were single, then maybe the M4 because M6 is just too big for a 2 door car.

[///M ARMY]

Originally Posted by Careful Driver

I could spend 5 minutes with you and you'll be shocked how inferior the M3 interior is compared to the M5. From A/C vents to, A/C buttons, power/EDC/steering buttons, headliners, doors, everything is cheaply made in M3. Even the plastic used where its used is worse kind of plastic. The only thing both cars have in common is the type of leather they use, which is merino. The headrests on the seats dont move, including the ones at the back (BAD for people with car seats that need tether), no arm rest at the back, and so on.

A lot of money for a car like this. Honestly, if I were shopping for a track/weekend car as a second car, I'd never buy this car. Z06/Z07 is so much better or a used Porsche. If I must have 1 car, I'd get the M5. If I were single, then maybe the M4 because M6 is just too big for a 2 door car.

I had a F10 before I bought my F80. I know the difference. The are pros and cons with both vehicles. You might see it another way and I might see it differently. Its our opinions. I personally like the M3 interior better then F10 for what is used for. Track wise. Your comparing two different levels of M models. The headrest, I can care less. Some people like it, some don't. I like it. The Z06 I would never get over the BMW. But to each there own. Porsche 911 turbo thats a different story.

[Careful Driver]

Originally Posted by UAM951

I had a F10 before I bought my F80. I know the difference. The are pros and cons with both vehicles. You might see it another way and I might see it differently. Its our opinions. I personally like the M3 interior better then F10 for what is used for. Track wise. Your comparing two different levels of M models. The headrest, I can care less. Some people like it, some don't. I like it. The Z06 I would never get over the BMW. But to each there own. Porsche 911 turbo thats a different story.

Z06 maybe not, but have you sat in the new Z07? It's actually M6 level interior, that car makes 630+ hp and 600+ torque, ridiculous. I hate american cars, but Z07 is something else. Unbelievable attention to detail, a huge improvement. Possibly low 3.0s 0-60 time, it has front tires that is as large as the rears of the M5 (285/335). The only reason someone picks the M4 over the Z07 is if they need the backseat space and they are daily driving their car.

I touched the shortcut buttons today in the M4, they squeaked. We were going over bumps and the door seals were creaking. I mean come on, this is a 80k car now. Last time we were buying a "high revving 4 liter 8400 rpm special engine", now it's a turbo charged 3.0 liter engine. What is so special about it this time? It's just not worth the money! Not at least when you have the previous model!

As I said earlier, M3 has always been a compromise car. That being said, it always promised a first for a technology/performance aspect and was always revolutionary. 8400 rpm revving V8 or dual clutch transmission in an affordable 4 door car, that's a first. The car was well worth the premium last time. What do we have this time around? What's so special about it this time? The only way I'd buy this car is if I am financially constrained and cannot afford the M5. It's my opinion that you gain very little over the previous generation and give up too much over M5/M6 for the kind of money you pay for this car (at least right now with MSRP+).

M5 laps hockhenheimring same time as the M3. That's unbelievable. It does the nurburgring 3 seconds slower. Again, unbelievable. I strongly believe there is not a single soul in this forum who will be able to professionally race an M3 over an M5 and see the difference in a race track. How many of us will be able to take the car to its limit to the point where M3 will win over the M5? Really.

[///M ARMY]

Originally Posted by Careful Driver

Z06 maybe not, but have you sat in the new Z07? It's actually M6 level interior, that car makes 630+ hp and 600+ torque, ridiculous. I hate american cars, but Z07 is something else. Unbelievable attention to detail, a huge improvement. Possibly low 3.0s 0-60 time, it has front tires that is as large as the rears of the M5 (285/335). The only reason someone picks the M4 over the Z07 is if they need the backseat space and they are daily driving their car.

I touched the shortcut buttons today in the M4, they squeaked. We were going over bumps and the door seals were creaking. I mean come on, this is a 80k car now. Last time we were buying a "high revving 4 liter 8400 rpm special engine", now it's a turbo charged 3.0 liter engine. What is so special about it this time? It's just not worth the money! Not at least when you have the previous model!

As I said earlier, M3 has always been a compromise car. That being said, it always promised a first for a technology/performance aspect and was always revolutionary. 8400 rpm revving V8 or dual clutch transmission in an affordable 4 door car, that's a first. The car was well worth the premium last time. What do we have this time around? What's so special about it this time? The only way I'd buy this car is if I am financially constrained and cannot afford the M5. It's my opinion that you gain very little over the previous generation and give up too much over M5/M6 for the kind of money you pay for this car (at least right now with MSRP+).

I do agree with you. I dislike american cars. I wouldn't purchase one. I want to see an american car that is like damn ok thats a game changer.

Personally, I can afford a M5 or A GTR but preferred to get the M3. GTR to me lacks interior wow factor. Great performance car and I was like 5 seconds away from getting it until I drove the M5. I didn't want it because I already have the F10 platform already. Some people money isn't an issue and some it is. The M3 to me suits the needs that I have. May not for you but it is for me, at least for now until something else comes out or until the M5 is AWD and drops 300lbs.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by UAM951

I had a F10 before I bought my F80. I know the difference. The are pros and cons with both vehicles. You might see it another way and I might see it differently. Its our opinions. I personally like the M3 interior better then F10 for what is used for. Track wise. Your comparing two different levels of M models. The headrest, I can care less. Some people like it, some don't. I like it. The Z06 I would never get over the BMW. But to each there own. Porsche 911 turbo thats a different story.

Agreed here. Two entirely different cars and people get their fun out of both for different reasons. For goodness sake look at the GT-R. I used to say that the seats reminded me of baby crib material. It is just cheap looking but people LOVE those cars for their ability to just tear up the streets. The M3 is a lot more nimble than the M5/6 and people enjoy that vs. the heavy feel of the M5/6. People's tastes change and some switch to the smaller car for that more sporty feel. Heck, I used to think my M6 Cab felt sporty. The other day the wife and I took it out for a "cruise" and as we were idling at low wake down the driveway I was singing "The Love Boat"...true story-lol

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by UAM951

GTR to me lacks interior wow factor.

Ha! Beat me to the GT-R comment-lol

[///M ARMY]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Ha! Beat me to the GT-R comment-lol

lol I would get the GTR when they improve the interior. Hopefully in the next generation. By that time my daughter will be old enough to ride in the front.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Careful Driver

I, on the other hand, am more vocal and I am the type that gets banned from forums because I speak the truth (i.e. they banned me from F80 post a few weeks ago). Not that I care, but still I could careless if the F80 people hate me, I speak my mind, very openly.

You got banned???? really???? I think this is the best decision ever made by admins (JK)

[M6-Coupe]

I just saw this one. Usually their numbers are much slower than the real number since they do not do measurement on sea level so cars lose some horse power at that altitude but the question is how far the numbers are????
BTW they submitted 4.2 sec for M6 at this altitude last time...
Does it mean S55 loses much more power???
I saw this formula (I'm not sure if applies to any car):
HP(loss) = elevation (feet) x 0.03 x HP /1000

[Careful Driver]

As I said, car makes too much torque for its chassis. I had the same problem during my test drive, the rear constantly gives out. For some reason M5 does not have this problem, at least to this extent.

[soooma]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I just saw this one. Usually their numbers are much slower than the real number since they do not do measurement on sea level so cars lose some horse power at that altitude but the question is how far the numbers are????
BTW they submitted 4.2 sec for M6 at this altitude last time...
Does it mean S55 loses much more power???
I saw this formula (I'm not sure if applies to any car):
HP(loss) = elevation (feet) x 0.03 x HP /1000

Common M6-Coupe
Let's be fair this car is a lot heavier than old M3 with those 2 giants - in the car and they had no clue how to launch it a d I believe if this did the same to our cars M5 or M6 you won't see below 5 either !

Just saying
Truing to be not biased here

[M6-Coupe]

Soooma actually they do and as I said they got 4.2 for M6
watch this at 3:20

[Timberwolf]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Yo yo, what up?! It's yo favorite car reviewah here, Pkilla617.

Yo, got to drive the new ass M3 today boy. This ride is dope ya'll. The one I drove didn't have the cocaine white interior, but the car was a beast. Top of the line son. Ya'll need to get a handle on this new M3, car felt like a beast in all modes, even just drivin' it around in da' parking lot. This M3 didn't have the Shakur leather either, but it was nasty fo'sho. Loved stocks on the car too dog.

And now back to your regular scheduled programming...


Ok, after my good friend Pkilla drove the car, it was my turn. RPiM5, aka Mr. JetBlue himself.

I got a secret communique through back channel BMW protocols that provided the intelligence necessary for me to hunt down my first F80 M3 and drive it. Got to the dealership this afternoon after I got off of work and parked Ms. Mika outside in the front of the dealership. The receptionist girl was funny and gave me the best compliment I think I've ever gotten on my car she said that "my M5 looked like it belonged in California, like in Hollywood." Ha!

After a short chat with the receptionist girl the CA came out and helped to arrange the test drive with him. I think I may the first F10 M5 owner to drive an F80 M3 or at least report on it here on Bimmerpost. If I'm not then at least I'm the first one to report how Pkilla617 himself liked the car. What a guy he is.

THE GOOD:

After a long chat with the CA, about cool M3 stuff, we were off! I took it easy on Mika's little sister at first, just puttered about in D1 mode everything efficient and comfort, just to get a feel for her. The steering feel just driving around at slow and normal speeds felt less communicative than M5's steering. This is just my perception. Later when I went to Sport and Sport+ on the steering, it did get a lot heavier, but no extra feel was felt really, although I will say that the EPS is very very responsive and accurate. Halfway through the test drive I put the M3 in Sport+ throttle, Sport+ Suspension, and Sport+ Steering, D3 mode and gave more and more throttle input. What happened next surprised the hell out of me...

THE FANTASTIC:

As soon as the engine revolutions passed EXACTLY 4,000RPM, the car literally and shockingly CAME ALIVE!!!! It was like I awoke a BEAST lurking beneath the hood of the car! I was like GOOD GOD, where the hell did you come from little M3?! When I mean CAME ALIVE, I mean the sound in the cabin COMPLETELY changed from sounding like I was driving a 335i around town to sounding like I was driving a bonefide ///M car on the Nurburging! The sound we heard is the sound of the induction noise of the engine and the exhaust of the car seemingly mixed together. I soon switched to S3 mode on the DCT, and began upshifting and downshifting to get the revs below and above 4,000rpm. When I upshifted to 3rd gear from 2nd and the revs went below 4,000rpm the car went quiet, I would slow down downshift to 2nd gear then give the engine some throttle and would accelerate past 4,000rpm and every single time the car came alive! I did like 10 times in a row, because I was having a hard time believing just how F$CK(NG FANTASTIC the car sounded! I did several more pulls like this with the windows rolled down just to determine if I could hear the exhaust change note with the valves opening up. The answer is yes you can hear a definite change to the exhaust note when the valves open up and it sounds pretty good!

It was a pretty extended test drive and we took it on the highway for a few minutes too. We hit this super long on ramp, like at least a 1/4 mile and I gave it a good long acceleration. This is where I felt the real PULL of the new F80 M3. I'm telling you guys the car pulls like an M5, I'm not exaggerating. I got the same feeling of acceleration. Whether the new M3 is faster in any kind of straightline performance I can't say, the CA would not let me race my M5 against it. Lol! Then again my M5 is modded to over 700hp at the moment. The new M3 sure did feel fast though, and that's what counts.

The NOT SO GOOD:

As for the other things, it was about the same as you would expect riding in a nicely equipped 335i. The interior sound in the cabin was pretty dang quiet, dare I say even less road noise than an F10 M5? I conducted the entire test drive with the radio in the OFF position, as I wanted to hear every last sound from the car that I could.

After a little while of driving the M3 around, I did start to notice a lot of little things that reminded me I was driving an M3 and not an M5. The one that I test drove did not have the full leather, but that didn't bother me. One of the most noticeable things I took note of, and I know this might be weird, was the look of the digital display for the temperature controls. On the F3x/F8x chassis, the display for the temperature controls looks like it's displayed in 32bit graphics. On the M5 and M6, the temperature digital display looks like it's in 1056bit. No alcantara headliner, no soft close doors, no power close trunk, no ventilated front seats (which by the way it is stinking hot around here today, 99 degrees and b#tch ain't one), the instrument display doesn't look as nice, yada, yada, yada... Yeah I know it's like a $30,000 dollar cheaper car than an M5, but I was reminded of that almost everywhere I looked around inside the cabin. Overall though, just by the look at the seats I felt like I was in a more sporty car, especially by the interior sound of the engine too!

THE BAD:

After the test drive I parked the Mika's little sister next to her for a quick photoshoot afterwards. While doing that though, I asked the CA if he could rev the engine for me while I stood behind the M3. I just wanted to hear finally for once and for all, what the heck this thing sounded like while revving from a stand still. Unfortunately all the reports are true. The exhaust sounds like shiite! I know it's because the valves are closed and I even had the CA put all the car's setting in Sport+ to see if the valves would open but it didn't really help when revving from a stand still. The exhaust sounds much much better when you're driving it around. I know for a fact, once some legit aftermarket exhausts get installed and eliminate those valves, it'll sound much better in all regimes.

I had initially thought of getting an M3/M4 one day because I wanted to have a car that can do it all in a cheaper way. I.E. track time, daily driver, utility, comfort, luxury, technology, and looks. But, I walked away from the F80 M3 today feeling thankful that when I got back into my M5, I could use the ventilated seats because it was so hot out today. I even gave the CA a ride in my M5 after we finished in the M3. He giggled a lot more when I drove my M5 than when I drove the M3 today, if that tells you anything. Then again my M5 is straightpiped, with a tune, and with upgraded suspension.

One thing that I found annoying on the M3 right away is the display that tells you which mode you are currently in for Throttle, Suspension, and Steering. On the M5, the modes are always displayed below the Tacometer. On the M3, the mode selection display is a Pop-Up menu that only comes up when you are changing the modes then goes away. So you can't see straight away which mode you are in for the various settings. This combined with the fact that they took away the lights on the buttons themselves on the lower center console near the gear shift knob, is annoying. This I would have to say is my biggest peeve about the new M3/M4.

I will now bring a little heuristics into this review.

Scale from 1-10.

Steering: 8. Not horrible, but not OMG I love the steering feel either.

Ride Quality - 10. Felt just as comfortable driving around as the M5 did

Ride Comfort - 7. Much better seats than the E92 M3, but when I got back into my M5, I felt like I was sitting on a lazyboy, compared to the F80 M3's love seat.

Technology - 10. It's a BMW, I expect nothing less.

Performance - 10. Not only did it feel fast, but the car made sounded like I was driving an ///M car, from the inside that is.

Brakes - 8. The standard steel brakes felt just fine, but I know they will experience fade when driven on the track.

Size - 10. Absolutely love the size of the F80 M3. It's perfect!

Weight - 10. You can just feel that the car is a lot lighter.

Overall ///M Character - 8. I rated this an 8 because overall, the new M3 does feel like an ///M car. It handles like an M, it drives like an M, and feels like an M for sure. Honestly compared to a stock M5, it feels more of an ///M car than an M5 does. The M5 is much more luxury and the extra luxuriousness does take away some of that ///M special feeling to it. Like induction sound of the engine. But there's a little to be desired on the new M3 still. Like the (ahem) exhaust note. Oh and I also feel that the hood bulge adds A LOT of character to the new M3/M4. I loved it, and I'm usually not a fan of hood bulges.

Personally, my two biggest concerns about the new F80 M3 were the steering feel and the exhaust note. As I found out today, I have nothing to worry about with those things and neither should anyone else. I'm glad that I finally got to test drive one as it answered my biggest question for me. Is worth it to trade in the M5 for a new M3? That answer for me today was no. My primary reason for considering the M3 was that it's a more track worthy car. And living around where I live now, hitting the racetrack is more prudent than seeking great public roads to drive where there is little risk. The sad fact is that where I live there is great risk to going full throttle on an F10 M5 within a 100 mile radius. Therefore, I wish to track more. The F10 M5 may be a heavy bitch, but she can still "Dance With the Stars" on the track too. I'll be keeping her for a while longer still. Her and all 4,400lbs of her. The new M3 and M4 are fanastic cars though and if I didn't already own the M5, I'd get an M3 or M4. In some respects I like the looks of them better than M5/M6, in other respects I don't. It's all subjective.

But seriously, just wait until you drive the new M3 and M4 and surpass 4,000rpm on that S55 engine. I wish I could be there to witness the look on your faces and I wish the stock M5 and M6 had that kind of character. Honestly.

It's been fun typing this all out and sharing, but now enjoy a few pictures.

Oh yeah and Pkilla says peace out bi$ches.

Dave,
Great review! As usual. From all the reviews I've read, and videos I've seen, this picture best describes what I'm deducing. lol

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Dave,
Great review! As usual. From all the reviews I've read, and videos I've seen, this picture best describes what I'm deducing. lol

NAILED IT!!!

[soooma]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Soooma actually they do and as I said they got 4.2 for M6
watch this at 3:20

I watched that not long ago and forgot !
You actually are right then !
But why are we comparing such a beauty (Exactly like yours) to this M4? We can try to compare but they are worlds apart and it saddens me that some people think if this M4 (Which I thought about jumping on more than once - But what prevents me is this ----> It doesn't come close to the league of M5 - M6 even if it takes it over (Theoretically, but we may see it on the track in the near future)!! Same applies to a tuned Ducati bike taking over a Veyron! ! Doesn't mean anything of course - except to the Ducati guy who thought that he had apples to apples race!!

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by soooma

But why are we comparing such a beauty (Exactly like yours) to this M4?

We don't! They did

[ufgtrs2007]

Great reviews and comments everyone. I own an M3 and M5 and love both cars equally. But for day-to-day duties, the M5 is a step up in every category. I even tracked the M5 and really enjoyed it.

They are great cars and each has their own target audience. However, 87K for a fully loaded M4 is a lot of money to spend on an M3/4 and pretty much negates the incredible value M3s of the past used to provide.

[SOM3]

Originally Posted by Careful Driver

I think they are pretty much the same. Just that RPiM5 is a very nice guy and he is trying to be friendly with the M3 crowd as well as the M5 crowd. But his true opinion is hidden in his sentences where he keeps saying "no way its faster than the M5, not even non cp" or "the exhaust sounds like shiite" etc. I, on the other hand, am more vocal and I am the type that gets banned from forums because I speak the truth (i.e. they banned me from F80 post a few weeks ago). Not that I care, but still I could careless if the F80 people hate me, I speak my mind, very openly.

Not only are you vocal but so detached from reality that it makes for fun sci-fi reads.

I don't know about other guys/gals but I love it.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by SOM3

Not only are you vocal but so detached from reality that it makes for fun sci-fi reads.

I don't know about other guys/gals but I love it.

Look at these dynos , both from EAS to see why the 5500 rpm comment is very real vs the S63 tu . This is a bone stock S63 TU comp package car on 91 octane in 80 degree heat so worse conditions than the F80 dyno . It makes 80 whp more than the BMS TUNED M3 , 140whp more than the stock M3 and makes peak power at over 7k rpm . That feels worlds different ( not in a good way)than a car making peak power at 6k and holding flat for 1.5k . So in no way does the M4 in reality pull as hard as an M5/6 in feeling or actuality . Not to mention we have yet to see sub 12 second 1/4 mile ET 's in 4 instrumented tests of the M4 and the fastest trap speed has been 119 with a 1foot rollout . There are a lot of ways the M4 is a better sports car than the M 5/6 but engine is not one of them period .

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Look at these dynos , both from EAS to see why the 5500 rpm comment is very real vs the S63 tu . This is a bone stock S63 TU comp package car on 91 octane in 80 degree heat so worse conditions than the F80 dyno . It makes 80 whp more than the BMS TUNED M3 , 140whp more than the stock M3 and makes peak power at over 7k rpm . That feels worlds different ( not in a good way)than a car making peak power at 6k and holding flat for 1.5k . So in no way does the M4 in reality pull as hard as an M5/6 in feeling or actuality . Not to mention we have yet to see sub 12 second 1/4 mile ET 's in 4 instrumented tests of the M4 and the fastest trap speed has been 119 with a 1foot rollout . There are a lot of ways the M4 is a better sports car than the M 5/6 but engine is not one of them period .

I agree with that, and even Terry said its 60-130 will never be that of the m5/m6.... But Terry's roll out times were 2.2+ lol those are awful. I have a friend with maxed e92 335i n54 making more torque than the m3/m4 and can get a 1.9 and traps 120s all day with stock diff and pss tires.

Just saying it would help if you let everyone know the rollout times were in the 2+ range I mean give the car to m6beast or greentrbo95gst and then if its still trapping below 120 with quality rollouts I'll personally be more than willing to reassess my view of the new platforms.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=193

2.2 60ft stock and 2.4 alpha BMS...

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

I agree with that, and even Terry said its 60-130 will never be that of the m5/m6.... But Terry's roll out times were 2.2+ lol those are awful. I have a friend with maxed e92 335i n54 making more torque than the m3/m4 and can get a 1.9 and traps 120s all day with stock diff and pss tires.

Just saying it would help if you let everyone know the rollout times were in the 2+ range I mean give the car to m6beast or greentrbo95gst and then if its still trapping below 120 with quality rollouts I'll personally be more than willing to reassess my view of the new platforms.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=193

2.2 60ft stock and 2.4 alpha BMS...

We have real launches in sport auto and their sister magazine showing 12.2 @118 with two different cars one DCT, one manual , and autoweek using a M4 DCT, LC with a one foot rollout only got 12.0 @119 . Not even considering Terry's negative slope 1/4 mile data it's useless because it's a negative .7% downslope. now you know