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      12-15-2018, 02:46 PM   #1
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E60 M5 to F10 M5?

I am considering selling my E60 M5 for an F10 M5, now that the prices have gone down.

The only thing that is holding me back is whether the F10 M5 is actually "boring" to drive compared to the E60 M5.

I have the SMG in my M5 and I absolutely love how it bangs into gear during high throttle. However, to non-car people, the jerky shifts makes them want to vomit.

Another thing is the exhaust. I have an Eisenmann Race on my car right now, and it screams to redline. I read online that the F10 is very muted. Does anyone have experience with an aftermarket F10 exhaust, and can compare it to an aftermarket E60 m5 exhaust?

Also, is the engine on the F10 M5 less prone to failure? I am thinking of upgrading turbos and doing other bolt-ons after owning the car for a while.


Thanks!
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      12-16-2018, 07:38 PM   #2
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The only reason I think the F10 is considered boring is because of the engine noise. You'll love the DCT in the F10 in its fastest setting if you enjoy the SMG in the E60. I've had my F10 for about seven months now and no issues have come up in regards to the mechanical side. There's a lot of nice sounding exhaust systems for the F10, currently have the M Performance exhaust made with Akrapovic, sounds better than stock, but I definitely recommend the RPi exhaust system
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      12-16-2018, 08:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanilla.j_ View Post
The only reason I think the F10 is considered boring is because of the engine noise. You'll love the DCT in the F10 in its fastest setting if you enjoy the SMG in the E60. I've had my F10 for about seven months now and no issues have come up in regards to the mechanical side. There's a lot of nice sounding exhaust systems for the F10, currently have the M Performance exhaust made with Akrapovic, sounds better than stock, but I definitely recommend the RPi exhaust system
Is the M Performance exhaust made by Akrapovic?
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      12-16-2018, 08:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
Is the M Performance exhaust made by Akrapovic?
Yes.

OP, F10 is awesome with respect to features, power, looks, etc. The only thing, in my opinion, the E60 is [vastly] superior in is the exhaust note. V10 with titanium exhaust is really special, more so when you compare to a V8 muffled by turbos.
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      12-16-2018, 09:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHouseWon View Post
Yes.

OP, F10 is awesome with respect to features, power, looks, etc. The only thing, in my opinion, the E60 is [vastly] superior in is the exhaust note. V10 with titanium exhaust is really special, more so when you compare to a V8 muffled by turbos.
Does the DCT shifts give you the same "rush" as the SMG's do under full throttle?
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      12-17-2018, 02:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
Does the DCT shifts give you the same "rush" as the SMG's do under full throttle?
Nope

Best advice ask yourself this:

Are you the sort of guy that was happy with a stock e60? If so then f10 is fine

If you are mad and wound it up with a tune and exhaust etc the stock f10 will disappoint
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      12-17-2018, 05:13 AM   #7
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I wouldn't mind going overboard a bit and getting an AK type exhaust though with the cats still in place to wake up some neighbours who have been annoying me lately.
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      12-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #8
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Coming from a 2006 M5 to a 2014 M5 I can say the following.

The F10 is MUCH more reliable.
The F10 has better seating.
The F10 has a superior sound system B&O
F10 handles better
Throttle response is better
E60 exhaust note is HEAVEN
F10 is WAY better on fuel and oil costs
F10 is more modern(duh)
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      12-21-2018, 08:41 AM   #9
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A manual F10 if you want that bang for the gears.
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      12-30-2018, 11:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRKELLY View Post
Coming from a 2006 M5 to a 2014 M5 I can say the following.

The F10 is MUCH more reliable.
The F10 has better seating.
The F10 has a superior sound system B&O
F10 handles better
Throttle response is better
E60 exhaust note is HEAVEN
F10 is WAY better on fuel and oil costs
F10 is more modern(duh)
Did you miss the hugging side bolsters?
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      12-31-2018, 01:22 AM   #11
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I had an E60 M5 with exhaust.... you will not replicate that sound. It is perfection.

What you do get in the F10 M5 is torque... plenty of wheel spinning amazing torque! It alone will make you forget of the E60.
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      01-04-2019, 04:38 PM   #12
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F10

Greetings. I went from a new E60 M5 to the F10 M5. Yes, I agree with majority of the group about the amazing sounds the V10 makes and I enjoyed the active seats in it quite bit. The shift paddles on the E60 are superior in quality, they would light up with a soft glow and a joy to paddle shift that V10. The F10 is quite a special piece of machinery also. Definitely heavier but it is a gentleman's hot rod.

I still drag race some but have a thing also for resto-modded classic muscle cars. A modded LS GM motor is a thing of beauty. Got one going into 63 Chevy Nova 'vert that gives me a great deal of satisfaction just looking at it or working on it.
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      01-04-2019, 04:42 PM   #13
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BTW

I forgot to mention that, in my personal opinion, the Corsa exhaust is one of the best exhausts out there. Great sound, zero drone and a beautiful exhaust note.
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      01-06-2019, 05:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm5bullit View Post
Greetings. I went from a new E60 M5 to the F10 M5. Yes, I agree with majority of the group about the amazing sounds the V10 makes and I enjoyed the active seats in it quite bit. The shift paddles on the E60 are superior in quality, they would light up with a soft glow and a joy to paddle shift that V10. The F10 is quite a special piece of machinery also. Definitely heavier but it is a gentleman's hot rod.

I still drag race some but have a thing also for resto-modded classic muscle cars. A modded LS GM motor is a thing of beauty. Got one going into 63 Chevy Nova 'vert that gives me a great deal of satisfaction just looking at it or working on it.
Ok, thanks for the added information about the paddle shifters, as that is actually something I really care about. I don't like pedals that are too mushy. I like more clicky and more crisp clicks, similar to that of the current AMG's.

Is the F10's clicks mushy or crisp?
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      01-07-2019, 03:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
Ok, thanks for the added information about the paddle shifters, as that is actually something I really care about. I don't like pedals that are too mushy. I like more clicky and more crisp clicks, similar to that of the current AMG's.

Is the F10's clicks mushy or crisp?
I drove a C63 at the Mercedes World pace track as fast as I could a while ago and compared with the F10 the paddle shifts are a mite crisper if not quicker than that of the Bm's DCT but that suited the bigger cubed non turbo lump's nature more.Make no mistake the F10's shift is still fast and satisfying especially as you go up the set up to sport or sport+ mode.
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      01-07-2019, 08:46 AM   #16
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Shifting

The E60's paddle shifts were definitely a different feel from the F10 in that it seemed faster and action was a solid but not mechanical sounding "click".
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      02-06-2019, 12:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanilla.j_ View Post
The only reason I think the F10 is considered boring is because of the engine noise. You'll love the DCT in the F10 in its fastest setting if you enjoy the SMG in the E60. I've had my F10 for about seven months now and no issues have come up in regards to the mechanical side. There's a lot of nice sounding exhaust systems for the F10, currently have the M Performance exhaust made with Akrapovic, sounds better than stock, but I definitely recommend the RPi exhaust system
Is the M Performance exhaust made by Akrapovic?
I believe so
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      02-09-2019, 01:15 AM   #18
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I’m also going from the V10 (E63) to the F10 next week. To say I’m excited is an understatement. Can’t wait for that instant torque!
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      02-09-2019, 04:22 AM   #19
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I dunno i found the stock f10 not very exciting

Tuned is different story
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      02-09-2019, 06:26 AM   #20
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If you get catless downpipes and custom tune, you won't regret getting an F10 M5.
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      02-11-2019, 08:46 AM   #21
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you will surely miss that V10 Exhaust note!!!!!!!
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      02-12-2019, 09:28 AM   #22
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The thing about F10 is, it had to happen, due to emissions.

It weighs 200 lbs more with barely enough power added to make up for it compared to the e60, if you have an aftermarket exhaust your Power to weight ratio is more or less negligible.

I have experience with the DCT in the Audi S6 and the SMGIII. I remember hearing that BMW just licensed the Audi design, i could be wrong.

I prefer SMGIII for spirited driving, it's faster with a skilled driver. The Audi DCT is smoother at traffic style driving, no question, and just a 140 ms slower at max settings, assuming it guesses which gear you want next. I see why it's popular, but if you care about max performance from the transmission SMGiii still wins. If you want extremely comfortable stop and go driving at lights, DCT is a big improvement.

Overall though F10 was premature, and BMW knows it was a downgrade in terms of engine, hence the fake sound in the speakers.

It weighs more too.

Thé whole car is a bit of a compromise in terms of being an upgrade. More a swap.

Swap of sound for better emissions, different esthetics, ultimate sport transmission for a very sporty yet comfortable transmission, you gain 200 lbs for extra back seat room, tech upgrades if you care. Also the active e60 seats are actually nice, sad to see them go (most definately weight reduction caused it to be cut as they were already 200 lbs over the e60) The seats are comfortable for trips but still provide the support for track driving. Best of both worlds IMO.

It's 'faster' but I think that has more to do with Pilot Super sports vs those crappy Continentals on the e60. All the magazine test times are on those stock tires so the e60's stats are deflated if you compare to new cars, especially after PS4s.

Also keep in mind the e60 is closer in size to the modern M3 not the modern M5.

BMW upsized everything. Your 2 series is now the same size as the E46.

All in all, a bit more comfort in exchange for a bit more weight. If that's worth it to you go for it.

The only real upgrade will be the new upcoming M3 or the AWD M5 if you want half a foot bigger, and with an AWD system and ZF8 it matches the e60 weight while the M3 will be about 200 lbs lighter I imagine.
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