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      05-26-2020, 08:30 AM   #1
AngryDog
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Is the F10 a big step up from the E60?

Hi all,

As posted on another thread, I currently have an E60 M5. Is the F10 worth the jump from what is arguably the best (not most reliable) engine that BMW produced, or will I be disappointed?

I haven't driven an F10 yet, I plan to do so before making any decision, be it selling my E60 or keeping it.

Thanks.
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      05-26-2020, 08:53 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryDog View Post
Hi all,

As posted on another thread, I currently have an E60 M5. Is the F10 worth the jump from what is arguably the best (not most reliable) engine that BMW produced, or will I be disappointed?

I haven't driven an F10 yet, I plan to do so before making any decision, be it selling my E60 or keeping it.

Thanks.
It's a step up for sure and the F10 is much faster than the E60 despite the more meaningful V10 exhaust sound.
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      05-26-2020, 09:11 AM   #3
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Yes huge improvement, the DSG is night and day difference as is the reliability and running costs are also better
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      05-26-2020, 10:41 AM   #4
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F10 as compared to E60 M5, based on my own research (looking to add an E60 M5 to go along w/ my F10 M5).

Pros - Faster, more reliable, better handling, much more modern, more comfortable (subjective) better trans (DCT vs SMG3), more refined.

Cons - Larger, heavier, less soul, less direct, doesn't sound as good, less "raw".

Most of the above is subjective, based on my personal preference. If you're looking at it objectively, the F10 M5 is a far better vehicle vs the E60 M5. But that V10 steals the show every time.
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      05-26-2020, 03:36 PM   #5
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Thanks for your replies guys. I guess I need to drive one really to see how I get on with it. I know I will miss the sound of the V10. If I could afford to keep both then I would, but sadly it needs to make way if I move to an F10.

My big concern with the F10 is that I will find it dull. I don't need a daily so the E60 tends to get used at weekends and drives out.
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      05-26-2020, 04:23 PM   #6
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If you are not daily driving it I would say stick to the E60. While the tech and transmission are lightyears better in the F10, the E60 is such a different experience.

While its not as quick as the F10 the drive of it was more engaging weekend thrash friendly. The F10 is the ultimate DD. The E60 makes for a fun weekend car although if I was going to have a S85 weekend car it would probably be an E63.
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      05-26-2020, 06:52 PM   #7
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On Efficient engine dynamics, on a stock tune, the F10 M5 feels every bit its weight - heavy weight and nonlinear throttle response. You're supposed to stay on Efficient for about 5 miles and when the engine is warm up to operating temps.

On Sport and Sport Plus, the car seems to shed a couple thousand pounds and is totally worth it. Feels like a different car entirely.

I do want to waken it up on Efficient mode. The BMS Pedal Tuner looks like a really good alternative to the cost of a custom tune or some cheaper (but possibly less safe) OTS tuning options.
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      05-26-2020, 06:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryDog View Post
Thanks for your replies guys. I guess I need to drive one really to see how I get on with it. I know I will miss the sound of the V10. If I could afford to keep both then I would, but sadly it needs to make way if I move to an F10.

My big concern with the F10 is that I will find it dull. I don't need a daily so the E60 tends to get used at weekends and drives out.
I came from an E90 M3, slick top 6spd manual w/ an Akra exhaust and stg 2 tune...it was glorious. Back road drives were a blast. Unfortunately, at the time, I was also commuting daily and I was getting aggravated w/ the road rash, the miles on the car, the parking lot, and of course, the manual gear box. I decided I needed a bigger more comfortable car; more of a highway cruiser and less B-road blaster. Enter the F10. I love it, but it's not the same. It's about 100 times faster, more modern, luxurious, comfortable etc...but that driver engagement and soul is just lacking.

my two cents.
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      05-26-2020, 07:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabs1815 View Post
If you are not daily driving it I would say stick to the E60... The F10 is the ultimate DD.
You nailed it; there is no better daily than the F10 M5, hence why I bought one. I was commuting, spending about 90 mins in traffic (total).

For a weekend car, the E60 M5 is better and to sabs point, maybe an M6 would be even better!
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      05-26-2020, 09:29 PM   #10
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If you want a fast sedan for 5 days a week and not be seen in a hellcat then go for the F10. Yes, it may be more reliable than your e60 by BMW M standards.

If you want to stick to a visceral, thrill-seeking and soulful sports car, I will stick to the e60.
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      05-27-2020, 03:38 AM   #11
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The S63 can be made to sound awesome, but nothing sounds like the S85 with an Eisenmann exhaust on it.
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      05-27-2020, 04:18 AM   #12
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I have both

The f10 stock i was disappointed
Didnt find it really any faster

Tuned it different story it’s ridiculously fast

The e60 is magnificent to drive and the drama builds with the revs

However the f10 technology and comfort is a lot better

If it wasnt for the glorious s85 i would have sold it!

Both cars have eventuri, dinan sway bars and handling kits, mp4s tires, bilstein shocks on the e60, tuned, exhaust
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      05-27-2020, 08:35 AM   #13
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Thanks everyone for your replies. I feel a bit mixed now! I think I will take an F10 for a test, but maybe I should consider sticking with the E60, despite it being slower, though I was planning to go for a good remap on the F10, I have no desire to supercharge the E60 as the supercharged cars do not seem that much faster than stock E60's below 100mph.
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      05-27-2020, 09:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pTron View Post
If you want a fast sedan for 5 days a week and not be seen in a hellcat then go for the F10. Yes, it may be more reliable than your e60 by BMW M standards.

If you want to stick to a visceral, thrill-seeking and soulful sports car, I will stick to the e60.
Interesting. Anyone out there try the BMS Pedal Tuner?
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      05-27-2020, 09:16 AM   #15
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I never had the chance to drive a E60....came close to buying one but the cost or repair/reliability scared me off owning one. I got a decent 2014 for a bit over 30 with less then 45k on the clock and so far I love it. I want to do a flash and exhaust but I'm afraid of anything voiding my warranty should something go wrong. I've heard the trick to picking your flash is finding one that doesn't have a ton of tq downlow to keep the rod bearings happy (and waiting until its warm before driving hard). My last 335i had a ton of issues towards the end of its life so I'm just happy to have a car thats not leaking something and starts everyday with no issues.

Last edited by A3ch; 07-03-2020 at 10:27 PM..
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      05-27-2020, 09:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyfeller View Post
Interesting. Anyone out there try the BMS Pedal Tuner?
I thought it was a bit of a gimmick.....does it really quicken then throttle by wire response?
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      05-27-2020, 10:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A3ch View Post
I thought it was a bit of a gimmick.....does it really quicken then throttle by wire response?
I haven't pulled the trigger on it, but the reviews and forum posts seem to indicate it made a significant change in all modes. BMS isn't the only one that makes them. My understanding is the issue with the "feel" is the stock throttle mapping is a bit retarded (delayed) and the pedal tuner just removes the slack and can be adjusted for user preference.

The downside is you have to keep the device and wires installed permanently and tuck the wires away somewhere.

I'm probably not going to do it, but it's an option for people to consider and research.
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      05-27-2020, 11:16 AM   #18
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I have an E70 X5M and was very unhappy with the power delivery (it took too much pedal to get into the power).

I added a sprint booster v3 and it totally changed the vehicle. If the BMS option is similar to the sprint booster, I highly recommend it.
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      05-27-2020, 03:45 PM   #19
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Massive improvement in all regards unless you need high revving naturally aspirated sounds.
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      05-27-2020, 05:06 PM   #20
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Are we talking SMG e60 or Manual? I had a friend with SMG and said it was the worst trans he ever owned and I've heard similar from many others. Manual e60 V10 on the other hand I've heard is unreal.
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      05-28-2020, 06:08 AM   #21
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Smg is great

Just peoples expectations is different due to lack of understanding the transmission
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      05-28-2020, 06:43 AM   #22
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I have an SMG car as we didn't get the manual in the UK. I don't mind SMG, it is at its best when you're under harder acceleration. I do find it a bit naff around town at lower speeds, but no worse than the 5 speed slusher that was in my E55 AMG Kompressor.
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