Well.... That sucks...

[Noggie]

Weird sound from the front right, pulled over and saw this.......

Excuse me while I go to bed a cry a little.

[Ickdeep]

Danggg how did that even happen? Those are carbon ceramics right?

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by Ickdeep

Danggg how did that even happen? Those are carbon ceramics right?

Yup, carbon ceramic.

No idea, had a funny sound from the right front when turning right going over the mountain pass, had to make a hard brake and the sound was gone.
Pulled over a kilometer or so later and saw the piece missing from the rotor.

Where I live the rotors are 5.660usd a piece, I found a set at Turner motorsport where both front will cost me 7.191usd.

Car has only done 88.000km/54.600mi.

[M5Rick]

Sorry to see that but it's not uncommon seeing chipped Carbon discs,I must say it's unusual seeing it chunked in the middle like that. You haven't had it long?

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Sorry to see that but it's not uncommon seeing chipped Carbon discs,I must say it's unusual seeing it chunked in the middle like that. You haven't had it long?

I got the car back in August last year, at the time with 79.000km/48.500mi.
I have driven it 11.000km/6800mi and this happens.

The whole thing looks very unusual.

Sadly all I can do is either cough up the money for a new ceramic one or convert to steel rotors.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Noggie

I got the car back in August last year, at the time with 79.000km/48.500mi.
I have driven it 11.000km/6800mi and this happens.

The whole thing looks very unusual.

Sadly all I can do is either cough up the money for a new ceramic one or convert to steel rotors.

This should not really happen in normal use in the middle, I spoke on here recently about non BMW qualified people working on these complex cars and these CC discs are at risk from tyre fitters not accustomed to working with them.

[nynd]

Refer to this link: https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1721364

[Larry77]

I would definitely at least try to get something from BMW, this should not happen at your mileage. Makes me nervous for mine, I have CCB's and at 40k miles. Will definitely be looking for a f90 when my extended warrantee expires...

[AlisterB]

Ouch - that's going to be expensive.

I love the thought of CCBs (and the benefits, such as long service life and lack of brake dust), but don't think I'd be able to sleep at night knowing that I could be up for $20k+ AUD to replace on one end should something happen.

[EMETREE]

I'm no expert, but the brakes are absolutely amazing! ( I have them on my M5) but as awesome as they are they are very delicate. A simple small rock could have caused this, specially since it's right in the middle.

[SCD-1983]

I have seen chipped CCBs before, the manufacturing process is not 100% flawless and these discs are somewhat sensitive to any kind of impact. Tire ships are often the culprit, or rocks hitting the disc hard.

I had and currently have MCCB, I enjoy the stopping power, looks and virtually zero brake dust.
On the other hand, damage is possible and costly.

If I was you, get a good set of used CCBs and mount them, there are specific inspection criteria and it's the cheapest option, other than converting to steel brakes. I bought a full MCCB kit for my last M5 and never installed it, but the rotors were in great condition and I paid 7500€ for all the parts.

You can find deals on eBay, just need to understand the inspection process and you will be ok. If one of my rotors ever gets chipped, I will get a used set and continue to drive. We need to enjoy our beasts!

Good luck with finding the right part, PM me if you have any questions

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by nynd

Refer to this link: https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1721364

That was an interesting read, I'll take it to BMW, however, my car has more than double the kilometers that the guy in that thread had on his 2018, and my car is a 2014.
Not sure there is much BMW will do for a 6 year old car with almost 90.000km on the clock, even though these rotors should last 200-250.000km with normal use.
Maybe there is some goodwill to be had, I'll check it out for sure.

I found a company online that repairs CCB.
Acording to some Information on their site, damage like mine is usually due to a manufacturing failure.

https://www.rebrake.de/?lang=en

Found under "Kind of damage" section.

delamination at a Audi CCB 2. generation
this is caused by a bad compound between base layer and wear layer. finally segments from the wear layer falling out of the surface. such kind of damages are very hard to repair and this will work just for smaller chips. damages like at the picture can be seen will be the limit.

[SCD-1983]

Originally Posted by Noggie

That was an interesting read, I'll take it to BMW, however, my car has more than double the kilometers that the guy in that thread had on his 2018, and my car is a 2014.
Not sure there is much BMW will do for a 6 year old car with almost 90.000km on the clock, even though these rotors should last 200-250.000km with normal use.
Maybe there is some goodwill to be had, I'll check it out for sure.

I found a company online that repairs CCB.
Acording to some Information on their site, damage like mine is usually due to a manufacturing failure.

https://www.rebrake.de/?lang=en

Found under "Kind of damage" section.

delamination at a Audi CCB 2. generation
this is caused by a bad compound between base layer and wear layer. finally segments from the wear layer falling out of the surface. such kind of damages are very hard to repair and this will work just for smaller chips. damages like at the picture can be seen will be the limit.

Approaching BMW to step in is a legitimate option, I would try the same.

I heard about repair options before, please keep us posted on the outcome. This specific defect is a tough one to repair, since it's affecting a relatively large area. If an intact CCB rotor gees hit by a small rock, only a small portion will be missing. Looking at your defect, I believe it's a manufacturing flaw, the base layer and friction layer separated and a piece basically fell off. Unfortunately it can't be seen while purchasing a car with CCBs, it's possible to happen after 10k miles or 100k miles.

Either way, I keep my fingers crossed for you. In case the repair doesn't work, I found a brand new rotor locally for 2800€, but the price is negotiable. I keep my eyes open and let you know if I find a suitable replacement. The small group of MCCB owners should stick together 👍🏻

[Noggie]

Was at BMW today, drove the old 8-series as the M5 is tucked away in the garage.
They booked an appointment to have a look Monday next week, although they did not sound very positive.
"Never heard of any production failure on these", "probably a stone that chipped it".
They will have a look and let me know, doubt they will give me something.

A friend talked to a friend at a German dealer, he said they would probably have given a goodwill of minimum 35%.

Guess I will find out in a week.

Thinking about sending a request to BMW Norway and see what they say.

Originally Posted by SCD-1983

I found a brand new rotor locally for 2800€, but the price is negotiable. I keep my eyes open and let you know if I find a suitable replacement. The small group of MCCB owners should stick together 👍🏻

That is actually not a bad price, due to the exchange rate, they are 5500€ new here, best deal I could get was 4200€.
If the one you found is the front right (#34112284802), 2800€ seems like a good deal.

Also need a set of new pads at 670€...... I guess the price of "cool" aint cheap

[SCD-1983]

Originally Posted by Noggie

Was at BMW today, drove the old 8-series as the M5 is tucked away in the garage.
They booked an appointment to have a look Monday next week, although they did not sound very positive.
"Never heard of any production failure on these", "probably a stone that chipped it".
They will have a look and let me know, doubt they will give me something.

A friend talked to a friend at a German dealer, he said they would probably have given a goodwill of minimum 35%.

Guess I will find out in a week.

Thinking about sending a request to BMW Norway and see what they say.

That is actually not a bad price, due to the exchange rate, they are 5500€ new here, best deal I could get was 4200€.
If the one you found is the front right (#34112284802), 2800€ seems like a good deal.

Also need a set of new pads at 670€...... I guess the price of "cool" aint cheap

Here's a screenshot, it's the right front rotor 4802, brandnew for maximum 2800€, but I believe the price can be reduced!
If that's an option for you, just let me know and I will work on a deal for you!

[Noggie]

Had the car at BMW today, and the conclusion was a bit surprising.

The tech took pictures and measurements of the damage, conferred a manual and approached the factory.
Answer - The damage was too small, the the rotor will not need to be replaced.

The spec apparently say that a damage area under 5cm/2" square will not affect the braking performance, and the rotor will not need to be replaced, I was told to use the car and not worry.

The spec is found here.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...kes/1VnZQaHDxe

In case of de-lamination up to a total surface area of 5 cm² per friction disc side, replacing the brake discs is not mandatory!
The separation is a purely visual defect, but may cause customer disappointment and uncertainty.

[SCD-1983]

Originally Posted by Noggie

Had the car at BMW today, and the conclusion was a bit surprising.

The tech took pictures and measurements of the damage, conferred a manual and approached the factory.
Answer - The damage was too small, the the rotor will not need to be replaced.

The spec apparently say that a damage area under 5cm/2" square will not affect the braking performance, and the rotor will not need to be replaced, I was told to use the car and not worry.

The spec is found here.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...kes/1VnZQaHDxe

In case of de-lamination up to a total surface area of 5 cm² per friction disc side, replacing the brake discs is not mandatory!
The separation is a purely visual defect, but may cause customer disappointment and uncertainty.

Thanks for updating us, I am familiar with the newtis manual and the evaluation procedure. I wasn't aware of the exact measurements of the affected area, but it's a fortunate outcome then. Great news and continue to enjoy your beast

And here's the information I missed in the first place, it's basically just a cosmetic issue and not functional:

[JW_ATL]

Originally Posted by Noggie

Had the car at BMW today, and the conclusion was a bit surprising.

The tech took pictures and measurements of the damage, conferred a manual and approached the factory.
Answer - The damage was too small, the the rotor will not need to be replaced.

The spec apparently say that a damage area under 5cm/2" square will not affect the braking performance, and the rotor will not need to be replaced, I was told to use the car and not worry.

The spec is found here.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...kes/1VnZQaHDxe

In case of de-lamination up to a total surface area of 5 cm² per friction disc side, replacing the brake discs is not mandatory!
The separation is a purely visual defect, but may cause customer disappointment and uncertainty.

That must be a huge relief!! Glad it worked out and you can get back to enjoying the car!

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by SCD-1983

Thanks for updating us, I am familiar with the newtis manual and the evaluation procedure. I wasn't aware of the exact measurements of the affected area, but it's a fortunate outcome then. Great news and continue to enjoy your beast

And here's the information I missed in the first place, it's basically just a cosmetic issue and not functional:

I could not let this thread not have a conclusion. Might be referred in the future.

Originally Posted by JW_ATL

That must be a huge relief!! Glad it worked out and you can get back to enjoying the car!

Most certainly can, huge relief for sure.


However, I guess when the time comes to sell the car, this will be an issue.
I'm considering spreading the cost a little, maybe buy a new/used rotor sometime this summer, then get the pads (also very expensive) later in the year, and when time comes for the next service, just have it replaced.

[arucano]

Originally Posted by SCD-1983

Thanks for updating us, I am familiar with the newtis manual and the evaluation procedure. I wasn't aware of the exact measurements of the affected area, but it's a fortunate outcome then. Great news and continue to enjoy your beast

And here's the information I missed in the first place, it's basically just a cosmetic issue and not functional:

There is still a substantial difference in what the dealer said and what the TIS says 2x2mm=4 square millimeter. 2" square is 6.25 mm square. I assume the 5cm is actually 5mm square. Something does not jive....
The picture looks like a lot more than 4mm square.

[SCD-1983]

Originally Posted by arucano

There is still a substantial difference in what the dealer said and what the TIS says 2x2mm=4 square millimeter. 2" square is 6.25 mm square. I assume the 5cm is actually 5mm square. Something does not jive....
The picture looks like a lot more than 4mm square.

I contacted my dealership as well, conflicting information bother me quite a bit.
There is a difference between delamination and chipping:

Delamination is defined as separation from the base layer, down to the fiber structure. A total surface area of 5 sqcm is allowed per side.
Chipping is defined as damage of the friction or wear layer itself, not reaching the base layer, so you can't see the fiber structure, as in the OPs picture. If a chipped area is larger than 2 x 2 mm, it can be replaced.

Conclusion: Delamination up to 5 sqcm is ok, chipping up to 2 x 2 mm is ok!

Hope this helps!

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by arucano

There is still a substantial difference in what the dealer said and what the TIS says 2x2mm=4 square millimeter. 2" square is 6.25 mm square. I assume the 5cm is actually 5mm square. Something does not jive....
The picture looks like a lot more than 4mm square.

Its 5cm square.
There is a difference between delamitation and chipping, also the chipping section does not state the the rotor must be replaced if there is chipping present.

If you look at the link and pictures, this pretty clear.
4mm square is probably about the size of the cross drilled holes in the rotor, and it is shown that acceptable delimitation is much larger than one of those holes.

1. Delamination in the friction layer:
Definition:
Delamination is detachment of the friction layer down to the supporting body.
Typical signs of delamination are a sharp edge (1) on one side as well as the visible fibre structure (2) of the supporting body and the opposite sheared-off surface (3).
The area affected by delamination may have different sizes.
In case of de-lamination up to a total surface area of 5 cm² per friction disc side, replacing the brake discs is not mandatory!
The separation is a purely visual defect, but may cause customer disappointment and uncertainty.

Chipping from the friction layer
As shown in image, do not occur with the approved brake pads on → check installed brake pads!
Chip characteristics:
No supporting body visible
"Sharp" edges
Small surface area (less than 2 mm)
Chip damage like this does not lead to delamination (see Item 1)
One possible cause may be use of brake pads/friction linings not approved by BMW (third-party manufacturer, accessories trade, etc.).