Bent Rod?

[Jonzny]

Originally Posted by vafan13

I think the big issue with tunes like BM3 (even stage 1) is they seem to add significantly to low end torque, which is a big rod stressor. Sucks terribly that you've had this happen, but I'm not sure it's necessary fair to say the S63Tu is thus unreliable.

All i'm saying is all cars have their achilles heel. Just so happens with the S63 you cannot prevent it with a preventative maintenance item like a S54 with the vanos or subframe and RBs, or in the S65 with RBs and throttle actuators.

It is enough for me to walk away. Hopefully it doesn't happen to anyone else, though I can confidently say this forum has way more blown motor stories than other M boards

[vafan13]

Originally Posted by Jonzny

All i'm saying is all cars have their achilles heel. Just so happens with the S63 you cannot prevent it with a preventative maintenance item like a S54 with the vanos or subframe and RBs, or in the S65 with RBs and throttle actuators.

It is enough for me to walk away. Hopefully it doesn't happen to anyone else, though I can confidently say this forum has way more blown motor stories than other M boards

You probably see more stories because anyone can click a mouse abd drop $900 on an out of the box tune that does just that.

[x35250]

A lot of people seem to run OTS tunes without doing any live-monitoring (proactive) or data-logging (reactive). Any tune represents some level or risk. Even the stock map has risk when you're pushing a 5,000 lb car from 0-60 in 3.7-3.9 seconds.

BM3 does have the Dashboard where you can view many channels simultaneously. Even if you're staying stock, I don't think it is a bad idea to use it - of course there may be other options to monitor also.

You either need a dedicated laptop to use with an ENET cable, or you can use the BM3 wifi agent to use your phone or tablet.

Even with a custom tune, you really don't know how it is doing at WOT without monitoring. Your butt dyno isn't smart enough to see knock or pulled timing.

Everyone speaks highly of other reflash options out there that don't offer the ability to live-monitor but you can't know for sure without monitoring. Trust, but verify.

[Flame suit] I had a highly-modified Subaru STI (gasp!) for 11 years with a custom tune. Learned the hard way after cracking a ringland with Cobb's own venerable OTS Stage 2 map. After dropping some change to get a new forged block, I always used the AccessPort to watch my AFR, Fine Knock Learning, Feedback Knock, AF Learning, and Dynamic Advance Multiplier. Those are unique to that chassis's knock control strategy, but the literature on tuning seems a bit more robust in that community.

Cable management will be a bit annoying, but my wifi agent arrives tomorrow. I'll start live-monitoring the stock map and report back here?

I don't want to hijack Jonzny's post though so let me know if you're okay with that. Your post is going to attract some attention, so it may help the M5 community who has similar experiences or is researching options. I really appreciate you sharing your experience instead of just lurking. This is the beauty of having a community forum like this.

[Jonzny]

Originally Posted by vafan13

You probably see more stories because anyone can click a mouse abd drop $900 on an out of the box tune that does just that.

That is a good point, but even then the F80 guys don't seem to be having as many issues and there is far more of them out there. They fix the crankhub they are pretty good to go.

Not knocking the S63, just saying it is not reliable as many pretend it is. Stock cars bending rods is not normal..

Originally Posted by x35250

A lot of people seem to run OTS tunes without doing any live-monitoring (proactive) or data-logging (reactive). Any tune represents some level or risk. Even the stock map has risk when you're pushing a 5,000 lb car from 0-60 in 3.7-3.9 seconds.

BM3 does have the Dashboard where you can view many channels simultaneously. Even if you're staying stock, I don't think it is a bad idea to use it - of course there may be other options to monitor also.

You either need a dedicated laptop to use with an ENET cable, or you can use the BM3 wifi agent to use your phone or tablet.

Even with a custom tune, you really don't know how it is doing at WOT without monitoring. Your butt dyno isn't smart enough to see knock or pulled timing.

Everyone speaks highly of other reflash options out there that don't offer the ability to live-monitor but you can't know for sure without monitoring. Trust, but verify.

[Flame suit] I had a highly-modified Subaru STI (gasp!) for 11 years with a custom tune. Learned the hard way after cracking a ringland with Cobb's own venerable OTS Stage 2 map. After dropping some change to get a new forged block, I always used the AccessPort to watch my AFR, Fine Knock Learning, Feedback Knock, AF Learning, and Dynamic Advance Multiplier. Those are unique to that chassis's knock control strategy, but the literature on tuning seems a bit more robust in that community.

Cable management will be a bit annoying, but my wifi agent arrives tomorrow. I'll start live-monitoring the stock map and report back here?

I don't want to hijack Jonzny's post though so let me know if you're okay with that. Your post is going to attract some attention, so it may help the M5 community who has similar experiences or is researching options. I really appreciate you sharing your experience instead of just lurking. This is the beauty of having a community forum like this.

That would've been a good idea- maybe if BM3 offered something that gave you alerts while logging when things get out of safe ranges

[Craze]

Always run a torque reduced tune on this car

[Simple5]

I see a lot of correlation with bent rods and blown engines with BM3 and in conjunction with other mods (downpipes). You want more power, like they say, gotta pay to play.. I'll play light with an intake and bms stage 1.. BM3, even at a stage 1, adds gobs of power.

[vafan13]

Originally Posted by Simple5

I see a lot of correlation with bent rods and blown engines with BM3 and in conjunction with other mods (downpipes). You want more power, like they say, gotta pay to play.. I'll play light with an intake and bms stage 1.. BM3, even at a stage 1, adds gobs of power.

The torque curve in their comparison dyno scares me. Note that, at least in this example, the stage 1 and stage 2 are showing almost identical torque until ~4250rpm, including the peak at ~2750,

[vafan13]

Originally Posted by Jonzny

That is a good point, but even then the F80 guys don't seem to be having as many issues and there is far more of them out there. They fix the crankhub they are pretty good to go.

Not knocking the S63, just saying it is not reliable as many pretend it is. Stock cars bending rods is not normal..

BM3 stage 1 on the F80 looks to hit peak torque around 1K RPM higher. Probably a combination of that and them having more headroom, but I certainly can't say for sure or how much of which.

As far as stock cars bending rods, you're right, it shouldn't, but I'd bet the % of tuneless cars* that have had that happen is extremely low. Forums and the internet in general are very good about taking anecdotal cases and blowing them up (no pun intended), so I take that stuff with a grain of salt. There is, of course, no doubt that it has happened a number of times.


*that also haven't been ragged on

[Simple5]

Originally Posted by vafan13

The torque curve in their comparison dyno scares me. Note that, at least in this example, the stage 1 and stage 2 are showing almost identical torque until ~4250rpm, including the peak at ~2750,

Yea, those torque numbers are nuts and I can see stuff eventually going awry if you have a lead foot... I know OFT is currently out of favor with this platform but they had a torque limiting map with the engine and driveline in mind.. OFT is also appealing to me once my warranty lapses...

[josec70]

While I currently own a 19' M5C, I spent many years over here having owned both 13' and 15' F10 M5's.

During that time, the M5 scene in South Florida (I live in Miami) was very active. In the span of several years I personally saw 6 blown engines that were tune-related (one was JB4 iirc).

I ran piggys on both of my cars (Velos / Active) with zero issues .. literally plug, play and forget about it. It was consistent and allowed me to walk stock M5's and compete with the tuned cars. It is a good option for the person that likes fast cars but is not a gear-head.

The key to a tune is really selecting the right tuner and tune .. and even then there is no guarantee. That's the price you pay to play this game. I've seen both novices and experts in the game blow engines on this platform.

I think the platform in stock form is reliable from my experience but certainly there are susceptibilities if you add an excessive amount of low end torque which usually leads to issues with engine internals.

As with any high performance car, wear and tear and mileage will eventually create stress on the engine internals that correlate to a higher probability of failure, more so if you add additional stress via tune.

I would be curious as to how many 1 owner stock cars have blown an engine ... I don't recall too many during my years over here.

People abuse these cars and then return them when the lease is up so you really never know what you're getting when you buy these cars second hand. I've had 5 M5's and have leased them all all to avoid this very scenario.

I understand that's not an option for all so having a warranty or CPO is a must ... this is largely irrelevant if you tune.

OP, sucks to see this happen to anyone but I agree with your position to sell "as-is" and move on. Rebuilds are a pain in the ass.

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by bmwpower603

I’m very sorry to hear this.

Personally I keep my cars stock. If I decide to tune them, it dinan or nothing.

dinan used to be

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by x35250

Damn, that is rough, man. I've heard so many good things about BM3's OTS maps. I guess it is still a one-size-fits-all solution at the end of the day.

Any signs of knock beforehand? Running smooth?

Did you do any data-logging?

😂😂 You've heard good things? I started a thread to become very popular about how bm3 = blown motor because off the shelf maps are total garbage made by anonymous people so yeah his shit got blown up in 10 hours ..he should've researched around more.. sane to you too. he gets added to the bm3 deathtoll now

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by x35250

I feel your pain. Went through a similar experience with my old Subaru STI (though that's a much cheaper and easier to fix platform).

I know it's still fresh, but you'll go through the grieving stages - denial, anger, depression, bargaining, acceptance.

Please keep us posted. So many people hide their issues because of warranty concerns and they're trying to avoid keeping a digital footprint on the mods they did. With 60k miles, you're probably not in that boat.

I have 52k miles on mine and your post is scaring me into staying stock. I may still use the BM3 platform to live monitor even the stock condition. I read another post that even a stock motor will have tons of minor knock events as part of the normal knock detection and mitigation strategy.

Good luck!

I don't mean to be rude but you're not absolute idiot if you get me in three there's a much better option much much much better option and easier but I'm not gonna tell you you do your research like you need to do.

I've had my car for a little over two years now I think and I was reading about them on here for over a year before i bought and I kept taking mental notes of how many people has blown motors and also had BM3 .. startling how common,..

This guy now gets added to the death toll and if you go with bm3 you'll get added to it as well

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by Jonzny

Uploaded BM3 Stage 1 on a stock car, less than a week later I got this noise today. Maybe 10hrs of run time tops

www.imgur.com/gallery/XIMGdxB

Maybe it is something else?

I have no lights on, car runs and drives- this happened down the block from home so drove it maybe 1000ft? Didn't drive any differently

Checked codes, no codes.

That sounds awful and sorry man !!
but I've been reading on these cars for over three years now and I even started a thread that says BM3 = blown motor, change my mind.. Too bad you didn't find that thread

And too bad you didn't read around and notice the startling amount of people with blown motors used BM3 ..

See the thing is BM3 uses off the shelf maps/0TS maps which are uploaded anonymously

the torque value is shot way too high at low RPM's in when you got it from a did you get a bit rod it's just shitty tunes because nobody is to be held accountable it's that simple

unfortunately you are now added to the BM3 death toll
In less than 10 hours no doubt
I will bet money you did a few pulls from a dead stop..
a no no, even in stock form

Sorry to say I told you so but I've been saying this ..my threads like a year old I think

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by Jonzny

Uploaded BM3 Stage 1 on a stock car, less than a week later I got this noise today. Maybe 10hrs of run time tops

www.imgur.com/gallery/XIMGdxB

Maybe it is something else?

I have no lights on, car runs and drives- this happened down the block from home so drove it maybe 1000ft? Didn't drive any differently

Checked codes, no codes.

https://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1641598

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by x35250

Damn, that is rough, man. I've heard so many good things about BM3's OTS maps. I guess it is still a one-size-fits-all solution at the end of the day.

Any signs of knock beforehand? Running smooth?

Did you do any data-logging?

https://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1641598

[x35250]

Originally Posted by BeachM5nster

I don't mean to be rude but you're not absolute idiot if you get me in three there's a much better option much much much better option and easier but I'm not gonna tell you you do your research like you need to do.

I've had my car for a little over two years now I think and I was reading about them on here for over a year before i bought and I kept taking mental notes of how many people has blown motors and also had BM3 .. startling how common,..

This guy now gets added to the death toll and if you go with bm3 you'll get added to it as well

I will use the BM3 to live monitor and datalog the STOCK map for the time being. It's no different than running stock except being able to SEE what the AFR, knock sensors, timing, fuel trims, etc. are showing.

Once I find a tuner I like that supports the BM3 platform, I'll get a custom dyno tune or e-tune that I can continue to monitor real-time and datalog to see for myself that all is going well.

You're happy with BPM and that's great. I'm truly happy for you. I also considered BPM and know Mike's customer service is legendary. He does great work.

For me, not being able to monitor or datalog certain channels at WOT is not an option regardless of who the tuner is or which company I use.

So, no, I won't be another victim to BM3's OTS maps, but I will gladly use their platform for future mods.

When I mentioned I heard good things about BM3, it was in reference to BM3 as a tuning, monitoring, and logging platform - like the Cobb AP - not BM3's OTS maps. There are plenty of exceptional tuners using BM3. The benefit is not only getting a custom tune, but being able to verify the tune is reliable and safe.

Trust but verify.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by vafan13

The torque curve in their comparison dyno scares me. Note that, at least in this example, the stage 1 and stage 2 are showing almost identical torque until ~4250rpm, including the peak at ~2750,

They have these maps for anyone who has healthy clutches, they also have Lower Torque maps or can be lowered by the user in the map config option just click 10-100% reduction.

Originally Posted by x35250

I will use the BM3 to live monitor and datalog the STOCK map for the time being. It's no different than running stock except being able to SEE what the AFR, knock sensors, timing, fuel trims, etc. are showing.

Once I find a tuner I like that supports the BM3 platform, I'll get a custom dyno tune or e-tune that I can continue to monitor real-time and datalog to see for myself that all is going well.

You're happy with BPM and that's great. I'm truly happy for you. I also considered BPM and know Mike's customer service is legendary. He does great work.

For me, not being able to monitor or datalog certain channels at WOT is not an option regardless of who the tuner is or which company I use.

So, no, I won't be another victim to BM3's OTS maps, but I will gladly use their platform for future mods.

When I mentioned I heard good things about BM3, it was in reference to BM3 as a tuning, monitoring, and logging platform - like the Cobb AP - not BM3's OTS maps. There are plenty of exceptional tuners using BM3. The benefit is not only getting a custom tune, but being able to verify the tune is reliable and safe.

Trust but verify.

+1

Thank you! He is just a loser who has no proof of what his car is doing, can do or will ever do. He probably blew up and got gapped by BM3 car and is just getting paid by his affiliates to bad mouth BM3.

Fxx First Custom Tuning Platform that allows you to actually see what is really going on and not half assed.

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by FSociety

They have these maps for anyone who has healthy clutches, they also have Lower Torque maps or can be lowered by the user in the map config option just click 10-100% reduction.

+1

Thank you! He is just a loser who has no proof of what his car is doing, can do or will ever do. He probably blew up and got gapped by BM3 car and is just getting paid by his affiliates to bad mouth BM3.

Fxx First Custom Tuning Platform that allows you to actually see what is really going on and not half assed.

lol.. no revenge plot here.

trust me im a country boy with no affiliations, wish i did though but im
just a poor dumb redneck With plenty of time On his hands to read and research

But I do know what my car can do !!

-it can blow the f*** up if I download bootmod3

lol

lol

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by x35250

I will use the BM3 to live monitor and datalog the STOCK map for the time being. It's no different than running stock except being able to SEE what the AFR, knock sensors, timing, fuel trims, etc. are showing.

Once I find a tuner I like that supports the BM3 platform, I'll get a custom dyno tune or e-tune that I can continue to monitor real-time and datalog to see for myself that all is going well.

You're happy with BPM and that's great. I'm truly happy for you. I also considered BPM and know Mike's customer service is legendary. He does great work.

For me, not being able to monitor or datalog certain channels at WOT is not an option regardless of who the tuner is or which company I use.

So, no, I won't be another victim to BM3's OTS maps, but I will gladly use their platform for future mods.

When I mentioned I heard good things about BM3, it was in reference to BM3 as a tuning, monitoring, and logging platform - like the Cobb AP - not BM3's OTS maps. There are plenty of exceptional tuners using BM3. The benefit is not only getting a custom tune, but being able to verify the tune is reliable and safe.

Trust but verify.

hey sorry I called you an idiot I just got cynical about people blowing up their motors when ive been saying watch out for a while

[x35250]

Originally Posted by BeachM5nster

hey sorry I called you an idiot I just got cynical about people blowing up their motors when ive been saying watch out for a while

No worries. It sure is an expensive mistake to make. Hopefully, we'll see less and less of these threads.

[FSociety]

F10 and F90 blow up even stock, cars get abused and will be at their limit especially with any tune and more so with an AGG tune.

BM3 OTS are no where near AGG but the tunes have been sophisticated over the years. Regardless of what, these cars have a limit, require proper maintenance and luck.