VRSF Catless DP install, opinions, tips, advice

[rockyfeller]

I just finished my VRSF installation and just wanted to put in my $.02. I did a lot of research with threads here and YT. I want to thank bloxom for this thread; https://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1425383 it was the most helpful resource of all for this install.

Much has been said already so some of this is to make sure those details are emphasized and you know what to expect. Input, opinions, tips, advice, additional detail etc. Hopefully, it will be helpful for those in the planning stage of doing this DIY.

IMO this install is not complex by any means. So, in that way, it seems “easy” when you study it step by step. But once you’re actually into the installation, you realize that it’s all very, very TEDIOUS and time-consuming. I consider myself “intermediate” in “DIY ability” and to me this install was exhausting and a PITA, lol. At the same time, in no way am I suggesting that paying a shop $800++ for installation is worth it at all. For an intermediate, it’s all very doable. I can also see why a shop wouldn’t want to do this install or overcharge for it. It’s just not a walk in the park.

I know some say it took them 5hrs etc., etc. OK if you say so. They must be super-efficient or a super-exaggerator because it took me double that! And it’s all because at nearly EVERY step, (after taking the heat shield off) I got STUCK with something or another. Super frustrating!!

One reason I went slow and took my time is that it’s so EASY to drop bolts and tools into the engine bay during this kind of installation. I can be a klutz so there have been lessons learned during other mods in the past. Time is better spent being mindful rather than fishing things out/breaking things or having to hunt for ultra-specific hardware. I’m glad to report that I didn’t break anything or lose anything.

The first thing I’ll say is that there are a few tools that are just absolutely invaluable for this install IMO. I can’t imagine doing this installation without them. A LIFT is a must-have! I know some have done it just by jacking up the car but that just seems difficult. All these years, I’ve actually held off on this installation, till I bought one this year. It turned out to be a lifesaver for me. You must have an O2 sensor removal tool. You’ll need extensions for your ratchets. You really need swivel/wobble/universal joint sets to hit those angles. An impact wrench definitely comes in handy to loosen some of the bolts, especially at the mid-pipe. You'll be climbing far over the fenders with this installation so be prepared for that. It definitely helps if you’re a lightweight frame with skinny arms. You’ll need fender covers, if you don’t have them, at least use towels like me. Having a good bright work-light will definitely help. Lastly, a magnet and pickup tool is going to be very helpful for dropped bolts. If your ratchet bits are not magnetized, at least try to attach a magnet to them to hold the bolts to them.

No need to buy new V-bands, you should be able to reuse them. Some will say that you’ll need new gaskets and nuts between the DP and the mid-pipe. Yes, this is actually “a must”. The problem is that there’s a lot of confusion as to what part is what; and what is needed vs. unneeded. The reason for the confusion is that there are 2 parts here and people are calling them “gaskets” interchangeably. I didn’t get to buy the part that I actually needed. Since it’s hard to find it clearly stated elsewhere, I want to make sure I expand a bit on it here.

Some of the DIY’s show removal of the air intakes, DMEs, plastic/aluminum undertray of the car. Totally not necessary. All that needs to be moved is the coolant reservoir, and the DMEs just as bloxom has mentioned. Removing the brace and heat shield was pretty smooth. I’ve done plugs and coils before so I know the drill. As mentioned in step 7b, just LOOSEN the bolts for the heat shield. Don’t take them out! This is because they are VERY easy to drop and lose. The heat shield is slotted on the bottom edge and this allows you to lift it up with the bolts loosened in place. Don’t miss the small heat shield on the driver side as mentioned. There is actually no need to remove the rear (post-cat or downstream) O2 sensors until AFTER you remove the heat shield. This makes removal/install a lot easier. But the front (pre-cat or upstream) O2 sensors do need to be removed BEFORE the heat shield.

Once the OEM DPs were unbolted, it was WrestleMania! Man, no joke, I know people “told us so” but it’s really wedged in there! Some interesting origami BMW! It took me a good 45 mins to wriggle it out! The best way I can attempt to explain it is to really pay attention to how the pipe not only goes down and back but out towards the SIDE of the car. As you work on the driver’s side first, it requires a good counter-clockwise motion and a pull towards the midline of the car. Really hard to describe but that’s the best way I can explain it. Also, there’s a triangle-shaped bracket near the firewall on each side with 13 mm bolts. This thing is a major headache and gets in the way and I struggled with it for a long time. It’s just way better to just remove the entire dumb thing. They’ll have to be totally readjusted differently for the new DPs anyways. I know it’s been mentioned but make sure you have a stubby 6mm Allen ratchet. (You should be able to get away with using a standard “L” shaped Allen key with a short end) All the Allen key ratchet bits I have are too long, and clearance is very tight behind this bracket, especially on the driver’s side.

There was quite a headache on installing the VRSF though. I started up top at tightening the V-clamps to the flange anticipating that if fitment would be difficult, it should be up top since clearances are extra tight. I assumed that bolting the DP under the car at the mid-pipe would be the easy part. Oh man, was this a big-time place I got stuck for a couple of hours! I spent a lot of time looking at step 15 and pic 12a by bloxom. The reason for the issues was the gaskets located in this area. Once you totally remove the 4 bolts under the car, it allows you to easily slide the DPs in and the V-bands bolt up top without any difficulty. But getting the bolts on the bottom is actually really tough!

What I recommend is actually putting the 4 bolts on the bottom FIRST. Just give it a few turns to get it onto the thread, but do not tighten at all. You need a good amount of slack in order to have a chance of lining up the flange up top to the V-band. And man, was this a challenge. I can confirm, as others have, the driver’s side is just off by a couple mm. I had to take it out and reseat it several times with a lot of force to get it to line up. You may find it hard to get the V-bands on, I would suggest giving them a little squeeze with some groove joint pliers to get the 13mm bolts in. Be careful with that washer on the V-Band, very easy to drop.

Coming back to the subject of the gaskets. Please refer to the pic. There are 2 pieces: #6 which is aka “Spacer Flange” and #7 which is aka “Gasket Ring”. Please note the orientation of the parts. The Spacer Flange fits on TOP, the Gasket Ring fits UNDER and the diameter of both parts is roughly the same. So, this means that the ring doesn’t actually fit inside the spacer as I assumed. Once you unbolt the mid-pipe, the Spacer Flange is visible but the Gasket Ring isn’t. Stick your hand up and inside the mid-pipe and that’s where you’ll find the Gasket Ring. The next 2 pics show what these parts look like clearly. What I did was bought the Spacer Flange. This looks like your typical exhaust “gasket”, so that’s what I thought I had to buy. Replacing them might have some value but I don’t think it was necessary to replace them. What I didn’t buy was the Gasket Ring. Now, this is that part that you should definitely replace. It’s a “crush” gasket and its job is to deform and fit the lower part of the downpipe. Mine was slightly degraded to age and I wish I had the new part to replace it but I didn’t.

Here are the parts:
Spacer Flange: 18307844741 (top pic.)
Gasket Ring: 18307843213 (bottom pic.)
Exhaust Hex Nut: 18301317898 (See if you can reuse, $6 each x 4, are you serious BMW??)

Lastly, yes, the front (pre-cat or upstream) O2 sensors fitment suck. Particularly on the driver’s side, it’s WAY off. This will require you to grind the metal “cup heat shield” (which just pops out) so that the O2 sensor will fit. What sucks is you have to account for extra clearance so that the O2 sensor socket will fit over it. The rear (post-cat or downstream) O2 sensors sit a bit too far inwards compared to stock. Therefore, the stock foam heat shield won’t clip back on. Thankfully, I didn’t have to cut the heat shield anywhere like some others out there.

In summary, I’ll just say that no matter how well you prepare, you’re only going to “learn as you do” and really figure it all out as you go along. I know that if I had to do this installation all over again, it’d probably take me only 3-4hrs. (and I don’t look forward to such an occasion, lol) It’s a good learning experience of what’s under the hood and rewarding in the end though.

Now, just a word about VRSF. I know you guys are out there comparing like I was, so you know there are plenty of choices out there. I read a mixed bag of opinions online about fitment. As for me, I’d say that it was not that great. Not good, not terrible. I’d also add that I wasn’t too crazy about the quality of the welds either. But hello, VRSF, are you listening?? You should really be paying attention to fitment! People have been complaining about the SAME THINGS since 2015. And you guys are still churning these out like this? They supposedly “made changes”. Yeah, OK, where? I thought I’d be lucky, to see that, but nope. There’s no reason that this many years later, they can’t get it right! At least fix the O2 sensor front (pre-cat or upstream) O2 sensors fitment. Easily remedy if they cared. There’s really no excuse for that. That being said, is it worth paying double for AMS Alpha? Nah, a DP is a DP; it’s just a pipe. There’s no rocket science to it. Although comparatively, this pipe seems a good bang for the buck, in reality, it should really be half its price. These name-brand DPs are all overpriced.
My VRSF DPs were ceramic coated locally, I still have to observe for awhile to see if they really do run cooler than stock. I know people said the cold start is loud, but HOLY COW, is it L-O-U-D. Now I know why people said it will annoy neighbors in the morning. Indeed, it is downright obnoxious and embarrassing. I can totally see why people do a cold start delete with their tune. I had my exhaust valves tied to keep them in open position. I’ve now removed the ties so the valves are back to automatic operation. It made the cold start now marginally better but it’s still too loud. Another thing I underestimated was the smell of the exhaust fumes. I’ve driven behind de-catted cars before and thought OK, that’s not a big deal. Well, different situation here. I can definitely smell it while driving with the windows down at stoplights or going in reverse and it’s quite noxious! Hopefully, I can get used to it.

Is it all worth it? HELL Yeah!! My car is a stock Competition Pack and this mod made ALL the difference with the sound that I was looking for. IMO, there’s really no reason to change anything past the mid-pipe, unless you’re looking to achieve super loud. It’s now 3x louder than before with that intoxicating turbo spool. If you’re wondering if it’ll really sound as good as you see on YT videos, I’d say forget the videos. It does no justice and you just have to hear it in person. You’ll be blown away. It really transforms the car into something way more aggressive and uncivilized above 4000rpm. Yet feather the throttle with the windows closed and the old gentle M5 is still in there.

For all of you thinking about it or on the fence, go for it! Take the challenge, you can do it! Turn your M5 into the beast it was meant to be!

[F10_M5_Competition]

Do you think the OEM gaskets and vband clamps reusable if they're in good condition?

[M5_Raz]

Good post with helpful info! Reading this brought nightmares of the problems I had with my DPs. In the end I installed them twice myself and paid a shop $1200 to install thinking I'm doing something wrong. Terrible experience, but worth it!

[TinCanSailor]

Great information. Thanks for sharing the lessons learned, parts/tools list and for posting the link to bloxom's write up. I don't have a lift but I do have s set of 4 RennStands by safejack, a comfy floor crawler and thankfully my son is still slim and young and knows his way around tools and cars too. The YT videos make this project appear as if is quick and frustration free but I suspected that there was going to be some frustrating moments so I am going to make sure we start early in the morning so that we can take advantage of the cooler temps and all the daylight.

[rockyfeller]

Originally Posted by F10_M5_Competition

Do you think the OEM gaskets and vband clamps reusable if they're in good condition?

Most probably you'll be able to reuse the V-bands. Only time they'll have to be replaced is if someone took it off many times and they got bent out of shape or something. They're pretty durable and should last a long time.

I'd take a quick look under the car and look at the area where your DP meets the mid-pipe. If you have salt exposure from winter there is a good chance the 4 nuts there might have some corrosion. My car is southern yet there was some light corrosion. If so, best to replace. Only problem is BMW charges way too much for these. I bet you could match them with something else but these are copper nuts. I think they are size M10.

As for the Spacer Flange, most people would say to replace, as with any other exhaust job. Mine looked in decent condition, so I can see how someone could reuse them. But the Gasket Ring is something you definitely MUST replace, because it not only gets crushed and deformed on installation, it's very brittle and falls apart over time.

[rockyfeller]

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

Great information. Thanks for sharing the lessons learned, parts/tools list and for posting the link to bloxom's write up. I don't have a lift but I do have s set of 4 RennStands by safejack, a comfy floor crawler and thankfully my son is still slim and young and knows his way around tools and cars too. The YT videos make this project appear as if is quick and frustration free but I suspected that there was going to be some frustrating moments so I am going to make sure we start early in the morning so that we can take advantage of the cooler temps and all the daylight.

Rennstands are awesome. I considered buying them as well at one point. I just hope you get enough height and clearance.

I have a QuickJack BL-7000EXT. Although the car seems to be high up on the 2nd lock height, when you get under, it seems just adequate. Another 6" would be ideal to be honest since you need to get to the middle of the car. So that's why I said using jack stands would be quite difficult.

But I've seen people do full exhaust jobs with them so I don't doubt it can be done. It's just a lift makes it 10x easier.

[TinCanSailor]

Originally Posted by rockyfeller

Rennstands are awesome. I considered buying them as well at one point. I just hope you get enough height and clearance.

I have a QuickJack BL-7000EXT. Although the car seems to be high up on the 2nd lock height, when you get under, it seems just adequate. Another 6" would be ideal to be honest since you need to get to the middle of the car. So that's why I said using jack stands would be quite difficult.

But I've seen people do full exhaust jobs with them so I don't doubt it can be done. It's just a lift makes it 10x easier.

They have worked pretty well so far but I have to stage the front wheels up on 4 2x12 in order to get the clearance I need to set the stands up. Getting under the car is pretty easy from every side but I haven't worked up the nerve to take the car up to the top setting.

I wanted to get the QuickJack system and may still get it. The griound clearance issue that I deal with with the RennStands is what held me back ut now that I have the 2x12 blocks to assist I may grab a set over Thanksgiving/Christmas as i will definitely be under my cars a lot.

[rockyfeller]

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

They have worked pretty well so far but I have to stage the front wheels up on 4 2x12 in order to get the clearance I need to set the stands up. Getting under the car is pretty easy from every side but I haven't worked up the nerve to take the car up to the top setting.

I wanted to get the QuickJack system and may still get it. The griound clearance issue that I deal with with the RennStands is what held me back ut now that I have the 2x12 blocks to assist I may grab a set over Thanksgiving/Christmas as i will definitely be under my cars a lot.

Yeah look out for sales here and there. They have an excellent one for $250 off right now. Costco and Home Depot are known to give excellent discounts off the SLX models as well. But the advantage of buying off QJ's own website is no tax and there should be a 10% off coupon if you look.

I would highly recommend going with the 5000EXT or 7000EXT models because the wheelbase of the F10 is longer than you'd think. The other models come up too short. I bought the 7000 because it's extra heavy duty and can handle SUVs if the need comes up. The only disadvantage is they are HEAVY as hell and a bear to shift around. I store them wall mounted. (Check HD for the wall hangers, under $40 and cheaper than anywhere else. Costco usually throws them in free)

Unfortunately Costco and HD don't carry the EXT models. There was a price increase summer 2021 and I was able to just beat in time and use the 10% off coupon on the website.

[rockyfeller]

Originally Posted by M5_Raz

Good post with helpful info! Reading this brought nightmares of the problems I had with my DPs. In the end I installed them twice myself and paid a shop $1200 to install thinking I'm doing something wrong. Terrible experience, but worth it!

Yea man, it's easy to see how so many things could go wrong or turn into a nightmare and get you stuck. Well that's the good thing about the forum. You can always try to ask in one of these threads and someone out there will have the answer.

If only we had a hotline or IM help while we are under the car. Lol. Hopefully something in the future.

[M5_Raz]

Originally Posted by rockyfeller

Yea man, it's easy to see how so many things could go wrong or turn into a nightmare and get you stuck. Well that's the good thing about the forum. You can always try to ask in one of these threads and someone out there will have the answer.

If only we had a hotline or IM help while we are under the car. Lol. Hopefully something in the future.

That'd be great! Lol being able to ask a directory of people that are online hahaha

Thankfully I was doing everything right. It was horrible fitment on the downpipes that was the problem, I paid $2000 for them too

[TinCanSailor]

Originally Posted by M5_Raz

That'd be great! Lol being able to ask a directory of people that are online hahaha

Thankfully I was doing everything right. It was horrible fitment on the downpipes that was the problem, I paid $2000 for them too

[rockyfeller]

$2k??? Wow. They got you hard with that S63 tax.

[M5_Raz]

Originally Posted by rockyfeller

$2k??? Wow. They got you hard with that S63 tax.

Learned the hard way… they're very nice though, Meisterschaft 90mm (3.5in) with a reservoir chamber.

Got two sets and both rattled the same. Had to wrap them with exhaust wrap because they weren't thick enough at the bottom.

[rockyfeller]

Originally Posted by M5_Raz

Learned the hard way… they're very nice though, Meisterschaft 90mm (3.5in) with a reservoir chamber.

Got two sets and both rattled the same. Had to wrap them with exhaust wrap because they weren't thick enough at the bottom.

Yeah those are really nice, they're supposed to be the best. I remember looking them up once. The reservoir and heat shielding is really unique. Just surprised they had fitment issues.

My original plan was to go with AMS Alpha but I just couldn't justify the extra cost. I didn't want to go for cheapo EBay DPs so I figured VRSF was a good medium.

[M5_Raz]

Originally Posted by rockyfeller

Yeah those are really nice, they're supposed to be the best. I remember looking them up once. The reservoir and heat shielding is really unique. Just surprised they had fitment issues.

My original plan was to go with AMS Alpha but I just couldn't justify the extra cost. I didn't want to go for cheapo EBay DPs so I figured VRSF was a good medium.

Yep, big power increase too.

I tried getting AMS ones. Placed an order with a guy (don't wanna name) from Extreme Power House while they were on sale. After 3 weeks of waiting and nothing, I realized they will never come. Terrible service, at least they sent the money back quick.

Then I called AMS and they spoke to me like I was a second class citizen.

Problems or not, GTHaus was awesome. Definitely recommend.

[Doctor_X]

That’s on par with every single experience I’ve had with Extreme Power House.

Even if they have the best price I don’t order from them.

[M5_Raz]

Yep, learned that the hard way. Thing is, they didn't even have the same price. I had them match it with the sale I saw.